asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 24,590
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Post by asuka007 on Sept 21, 2022 22:55:35 GMT -5
I feel like many wrestling promoters look at someone who can survive big losses, and get into a pattern of reflexively booking them to lose constantly because “hey, they’ll still be over anyway.” We see it A LOT. And the thing is, just because they CAN stay over after big losses, doesn’t mean you automatically SHOULD always have them lose such matches. Do not take their popularity for granted. Yeah, and I think the worst case scenario of that type of booking is becoming Dolph Ziggler. Which is really, really where I hope OC doesn’t end up. True. But Dolph at least has won a bunch of titles in his career. Including a couple of world titles. Heck he was NXT Champ this year and one of the only men to beat Bron Breakker. |
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Sept 21, 2022 22:57:56 GMT -5
Yeah, and I think the worst case scenario of that type of booking is becoming Dolph Ziggler. Which is really, really where I hope OC doesn’t end up. True. But Dolph at least has won a bunch of titles in his career. Including a couple of world titles. Heck he was NXT Champ this year and one of the only men to beat Bron Breakker. That’s a good point. I guess one of the things underpinning this thread is that AEW’s titles still feel like they really matter. |
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Post by The Prince That Was Promised on Sept 21, 2022 22:59:50 GMT -5
I see your point, but my main point is that those guys were mostly serious and ready for the next fight outside of the ring even with their comedic finishers. I can't buy a guy who's gimmick is to be lazy in and out of the ring being able to win titles over who AEW has signed on their roster. I mean if he "doesn't care" then why does he even want title gold? He can certainly contend but I can't buy him winning and them pushing him as some dominant mid-card champion over guys who visually look like they can kill him in seconds. If OC won the World title and went on to main event a PPV with MJF for example, would you like that? Would you like him to defeat Wardlow or Miro in a TNT title match? Or would it be better if he did his comedy thing, entertained the crowd, and came up short? I understand what you’re arguing to a certain extent, I just think pro wrestling has long since moved past physical attributes being a determinative factor in how heavily pushed a wrestler should be. If that were the case, Nick Comoroto and Satnam Singh should have every title in AEW. Did you hate Rey Mysterio’s main event runs in his prime, too? Honestly, as much as I love the dude, there aren’t many wrestlers who don’t look like they could physically kill Bryan Danielson. I did kind of hate it actually. He was much too small for me at the time and I was a huge Angle fan. Beating Orton and Angle in a Triple Threat kind of softened it though, as multi-man matches are usually chaotic and anyone can pick up the win at any time. 1v1 winning the title from Angle or Orton would have been far worse. Bryan is different though because he's billed as the Best wrestler in the world and is also part of the BCC, a club built on fighting and violence. Imagine a real life Fight Club scenario in which you had some body builder as the final boss. I'd go with Bryan over OC every time to take down the beast lol. |
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Post by lockedontarget on Sept 21, 2022 23:40:03 GMT -5
OC vs MJF in a ppv title match sounds pretty awesome to me
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Post by lockedontarget on Sept 21, 2022 23:44:17 GMT -5
Prince maybe you should stop skipping his segments because he hasn’t really been primarily a comedy wrestler for like two years. You keep talking about him like he’s an R-Truth but he’s far closer to a Kenny Omega at this point.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,627
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Sept 21, 2022 23:46:46 GMT -5
The argument about his comedy antics during matches: Big scale, The Rock did comedy during big matches (his stunner sell, stealing Austin's jacket, taking a camera mid match to play cameraman) and it didn't hurt him. Lower card than that? Even after being IC and US champion, people cheered for Santino and were wanting him to win either the Rumble or Elimination Chamber...and let's face it, Cassidy is less comedic than Santino overall. On the other end of it, never winning a title and losing all title matches? Different era yes, but how many title wins did Jake "The Snake" Roberts have? And, to be fair, Santino was always presented as a possible threat, they always made sure to emphasize his sambo martial arts training, the idea always was that you could never fully dismiss him and you did so at your peril, going back to that Chamber match, Santino got two eliminations, they did a great job making everyone believe he could pull off the miracle win. As for Cassidy, I’m also rather disheartened by the continued misuse and inability to give him the big wins he deserves. People can say he’s still over and losses don’t hurt him, but that’s not necessarily true. The guy in WWE who is most regarded as absolutely bulletproof in terms of staying credible despite losing is The Miz, but the fact is that he has a list of accomplishments a mile long, definite proof that he’s able to win and be successful, he can lose a bunch because he’s already won so many times, hell, he’s the only guy they have who hit the Grand Slam TWICE. Mick Foley lost almost every match he had in WWE since he retired initially in 2000, but he was still able to put people over in big matches after that because he was still Mick Foley, the guy who had accomplished so much beforehand, won world titles and beaten many big names. The simple fact of the matter is, Orange Cassidy COULD be that level of Teflon, but you need to actually give him the big win a few more times, otherwise, people will eventually see him as nothing more than a loser. |
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Mid-Carder
King Koopa
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Post by Mid-Carder on Sept 22, 2022 6:40:18 GMT -5
I don't even like OC but even to me this felt like the wrong decision. There's only so many times someone can fail before people give up. I feel like they're really close to that point now.
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Post by robferatu on Sept 22, 2022 7:03:42 GMT -5
He and Best Friends are never going to win a championship. Keep that energy if Best Friends/Cassidy win the Trios/AAC belts at Full Gear I guess. I think that is energy that's pretty easy to keep as I'm certain that the Death Triangle are holding on to the AEW Trios Championships until the ELITE return (whenever that may be). As for Orange Cassidy vs. PAC for the AEW All-Atlantic Championship, I could easily see them running that back with Cassidy winning the title at "Full Gear," but I can also just as easily seeing this being it and them to continue to build up Ethan Page as "The King of the Atlantic" to challenge PAC at "Full Gear" instead. With that said, I was honestly surprised that they didn't pull the trigger on Orange Cassidy winning the championship, and they still may as there's another "Battle of the Belts" between now and "Full Gear" and there seems to be this subtle story line that started last week on "Rampage" where Page is targeting comedy characters in AEW. So, it does make sense that somewhere along the line Orange Cassidy and Ethan Page will cross paths, and I think it would add a little more sizzle if it's for the aforementioned title. |
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Post by markymark on Sept 22, 2022 7:26:06 GMT -5
If they still plan to put the title on Ethan Page then they can do again OC vs Pac at the Dynamite Anniversary show in 2 weeks and OC wins then he can lose to Ethan in Toronto(OC having a short reign fits his character).
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Sept 22, 2022 7:26:29 GMT -5
That's quite the stat for the lower-third chyron.
Anyways, I kind of think OC is where he should be. He's a beloved midcarder type that keeps the fans engaged. Even if he keeps losing title matches, I think people will enjoy his shtick.
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kimrey
Bubba Ho-Tep
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Post by kimrey on Sept 22, 2022 7:45:01 GMT -5
If they still plan to put the title on Ethan Page then they can do again OC vs Pac at the Dynamite Anniversary show in 2 weeks and OC wins then he can lose to Ethan in Toronto(OC having a short reign fits his character). No way they would finally pull the trigger on OC getting a title just to have him lose it a week later. |
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4real
Wade Wilson
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Post by 4real on Sept 22, 2022 13:07:48 GMT -5
I find it a little funny people are getting so worked up over a guy who’s gimic is ‘whatever’.
Think he’s absolutely beating PAC for the belt at Full Gear. But only after Jericho rips the piss out of him for being 0-8. The reserve Ocho.
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Sept 22, 2022 14:51:56 GMT -5
It is the ex-WWE show. Welcome.
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cjb01: Limited Edition Item!
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
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Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on Sept 22, 2022 14:57:26 GMT -5
It is the ex-WWE show. Welcome. PAC was on the indies for like 15 years before a WWE run ever happened The whole "Ex-WWE" thing baffles me, especially in 2022. Like a lot of guys are going to have had a WWE run large or small in this generation of talent, WWE was the only nationally televised show worth a damn for 20 years. You're just gonna end up where the money is. Acclaimed just beat Swerve and Keith for the tag belts, and there are a lot of young stars on the rise who never even touched WWE, and we're definitely all the better for it. |
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The Warthog
Unicron
Tell them, the warthog is back in business!
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Post by The Warthog on Sept 22, 2022 15:29:00 GMT -5
I feel that OC doesn't need a title run of any sort. They just need to capitalize on what makes him popular with the fanbase. It's not his 8 title match losses.
Though, can you imagine the tantrum Cornette would throw if OC did win a title match?
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
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Post by Nosnorb on Sept 22, 2022 16:07:51 GMT -5
I feel that OC doesn't need a title run of any sort. Though, can you imagine the tantrum Cornette would throw if OC did win a title match? Dude, you've just given a great reason why OC should have a title run. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2022 16:46:42 GMT -5
I would honestly just give up on Orange Cassidy and the Best Friends at this point if you aren't going to commit to them winning anything, and I'm tired of the mental gymnastics needed to defend their position. Who can forget the argument of how important it was for OC to get that victory against Adam Cole that would not count in the record books after all the times Cole walloped him before and after?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2022 16:47:42 GMT -5
Maybe I'm being hard on the guy but I'm not really interested in seeing any of the AEW titles in the hands of Orange Cassidy. Ridiculous gimmicks have won championships in the past sure, but AEW's title scene has been mostly serious and I prefer they kept it that way. Those guys you're referring to were built like brickhouses, OC is built like a teenage boy. So he's a comedian and he doesn't look like a wrestler. Perception is everything, especially when gold is involved, which is the standard for what your show is all about so only serious talent should be champions in a company that prides itself in its more mature sports based feel. I may be in the minority on here but PAC hypothetically losing to OC clean (despite what history has taught us about anything being able to happen in wrestling) is utterly ridiculous to me. And oh I hated Hulk Hogan. “Built like a teenage boy” I’m sorry, have you seen him? The dude is in amazing shape. It’s so weird to me when people act like he isn’t. This is the same industry where people complain that Adam Cole is not realistic enough to be a wrestler. |
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cjb01: Limited Edition Item!
FANatic
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Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on Sept 22, 2022 17:56:07 GMT -5
I would honestly just give up on Orange Cassidy and the Best Friends at this point if you aren't going to commit to them winning anything, and I'm tired of the mental gymnastics needed to defend their position. Who can forget the argument of how important it was for OC to get that victory against Adam Cole that would not count in the record books after all the times Cole walloped him before and after? Telling people to give up on acts they like who are over and have won important matches and defining feuds in the past seems pretty damn steep to me Like not everyone needs to have a title to justify their roster position, would it be nice if they won gold? Yes, but like Best Friends have two of the biggest babyface triumph wins in the entire company to this point while OC has several big wins himself, of which yes, the Cole lights out match counts and was treated as a big deal when he did it. I just feel like it's incredibly pessimistic to just tell people to give up on characters because you feel like they're never going to amount to anything, that's not really a good vibe. |
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Sept 22, 2022 18:00:29 GMT -5
I would honestly just give up on Orange Cassidy and the Best Friends at this point if you aren't going to commit to them winning anything, and I'm tired of the mental gymnastics needed to defend their position. Who can forget the argument of how important it was for OC to get that victory against Adam Cole that would not count in the record books after all the times Cole walloped him before and after? I completely forgot about the Cole feud when running down what feuds OC's had earlier but Christ that sucked. OC lost to him four times over, got beaten down over and over and over in between those, but I guess it's okay because in the end he got an incredibly protected fluky victory in a match that didn't count and then Cole immediately turned around into a half-assed World title feud no one gave a shit about. |
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