Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone.
Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 24,278
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Post by Bo Rida on Sept 13, 2023 11:06:20 GMT -5
Not really, it's different for a market leader that's been established decades compared to a new company. Especially in the case of WWE where cities pay them to put on shows and help with the marketing. In general it's not dissimilar to someone that might decide to stop buying videogames but will find the money somehow the moment GTA6 is announced. I think it's also kind of a six of one comparison, because the particular criticism of AEW is that it keeps running the same cities over, and over, and over, and over in relatively short windows of time. Which is an extremely fair and valid criticism of AEW. If WWE were to do that, there would naturally be diminishing returns too. I don't think it's as much a "money in the consumer's pocket" issue as it is a "AEW was JUST here, this isn't worth spending $150 for two tickets and getting home at midnight on a Wednesday this time" issue. Very true. I think Aew have oversaturated the market in many ways recently. On the flipside if aew wanted to go somewhere less saturated they'd either be starting from scratch or relying on 3rd parties which cost more. I suspect they have deals with the places they keep returning too. WWE have a history anywhere they want to go, they have their market research, existing business relationships in those cities for local advertising or logistics. Plus much higher brand recognition. They have advantages aew don't in that regard. Part of why aew could do Wembley successfully is because the Khan family already do business in London so weren't starting from scratch. It's tricky to get the balance right. I think TK is having to do things he knows aren't ideal in the short-term in the hope it pays off long-term. |
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Sept 13, 2023 11:10:53 GMT -5
I think it's also kind of a six of one comparison, because the particular criticism of AEW is that it keeps running the same cities over, and over, and over, and over in relatively short windows of time. Which is an extremely fair and valid criticism of AEW. If WWE were to do that, there would naturally be diminishing returns too. I don't think it's as much a "money in the consumer's pocket" issue as it is a "AEW was JUST here, this isn't worth spending $150 for two tickets and getting home at midnight on a Wednesday this time" issue. Very true. I think Aew have oversaturated the market in many ways recently. On the flipside if aew wanted to go somewhere less saturated they'd either be starting from scratch or relying on 3rd parties which cost more. I suspect they have deals with the places they keep returning too. WWE have a history anywhere they want to go, they have their market research, existing business relationships in those cities for local advertising or logistics. Plus much higher brand recognition. They have advantages aew don't in that regard. Part of why aew could do Wembley successfully is because the Khan family already do business in London so weren't starting from scratch. It's tricky to get the balance right. Agreed. AEW has a preexisting relationship with the City of Chicago and NOW Arena, for example. So a 4000 show there may be more profitable than running the Pimple on the Prairie in Laramie, for example, because of travel, rent, marketing costs, etc... We don't really have any insight into that. The closest arena to where I live is the YUM Center in Louisville, an arena that WWE runs often and that AEW has never run, but is running in November. We just had SmackDown here, and the live attendance was in the ~5,200 range. I'm very curious to see how Dynamite does in the head-to-head in an untapped market. |
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Post by rajaah on Sept 13, 2023 12:04:39 GMT -5
Seems like they are training the audience to wait to buy tickets last minute if they keep having too high prices followed by steep discounts. Yeah pretty much. I and a few people I know have gotten in the habit of just buying tickets at the door since it's so much less expensive now. In 2019 and 2021 you had to buy tickets day one a lot of the time or they'd sell out. Now, just wait and get a better deal. |
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Post by rajaah on Sept 13, 2023 12:07:12 GMT -5
Seems like they are training the audience to wait to buy tickets last minute if they keep having too high prices followed by steep discounts. I think an underrated part of what has really hurt AEW ticket sales is the length of the live shows. I have had non fans come with me to the shows and they are just exhausted and tired and ready to leave by 10pm. Then there's AT LEAST another hour. It's insane. There's no mindset of "leave your audience wanting more." They have burnt out a portion of their audience and the return to market ticket sales continue to plummet. This is another issue. The live shows go on way too long. People I go with never want to stick around for Rampage, no matter who it is, because it's just too much at that point. "Leave your audience wanting more" is something that doesn't seem to be part of AEW's design philosophy. TK errs on the side of "pack the shows as much as possible". I was shocked that one time when he had a PPV run like five hours just because there was an NBA playoff game going on and he thought people would be tuning in once the game ended. These marathon shows burned people out when UFC did them and they burn people out now. As annoying as it was for WCW to constantly go off the air right when exciting things happened (a Sting or Goldberg run-in to save the day as they cut to black, usually), it was the very definition of leaving the audience wanting more. |
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Post by Hypnosis on Sept 13, 2023 12:21:48 GMT -5
I think an underrated part of what has really hurt AEW ticket sales is the length of the live shows. I have had non fans come with me to the shows and they are just exhausted and tired and ready to leave by 10pm. Then there's AT LEAST another hour. It's insane. There's no mindset of "leave your audience wanting more." They have burnt out a portion of their audience and the return to market ticket sales continue to plummet. This is another issue. The live shows go on way too long. People I go with never want to stick around for Rampage, no matter who it is, because it's just too much at that point. "Leave your audience wanting more" is something that doesn't seem to be part of AEW's design philosophy. TK errs on the side of "pack the shows as much as possible". I was shocked that one time when he had a PPV run like five hours just because there was an NBA playoff game going on and he thought people would be tuning in once the game ended. These marathon shows burned people out when UFC did them and they burn people out now. As annoying as it was for WCW to constantly go off the air right when exciting things happened (a Sting or Goldberg run-in to save the day as they cut to black, usually), it was the very definition of leaving the audience wanting more. I miss when three hours was the longest any wrestling PPV would go. |
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Post by KingPooper on Sept 13, 2023 12:50:14 GMT -5
This is another issue. The live shows go on way too long. People I go with never want to stick around for Rampage, no matter who it is, because it's just too much at that point. "Leave your audience wanting more" is something that doesn't seem to be part of AEW's design philosophy. TK errs on the side of "pack the shows as much as possible". I was shocked that one time when he had a PPV run like five hours just because there was an NBA playoff game going on and he thought people would be tuning in once the game ended. These marathon shows burned people out when UFC did them and they burn people out now. As annoying as it was for WCW to constantly go off the air right when exciting things happened (a Sting or Goldberg run-in to save the day as they cut to black, usually), it was the very definition of leaving the audience wanting more. I miss when three hours was the longest any wrestling PPV would go. We had one ROH Dark match before the show in Nashville. Then Dynamite, Rampage, and then six more ROH matches. Most of those were squash matches. I loved seeing Dalton Castle when I didn't expect him to be there, but it got comical how long the night kept going and how empty the place was getting. They moved to hockey arena that was four times bigger than where they had dynamite last year I think people stuck around because they were hoping Joe was going to come out or something. When they announced the main event as Daniels vs. ZSJ, we decided it was time to go, the only people sticking around are the niche audience that match is meant for. |
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cjb01: Limited Edition Item!
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Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on Sept 13, 2023 14:58:51 GMT -5
AEW has mitigated these issues though, at least on the Dynamite side it's Dynamite and Rampage and maybe one DARK match.
I guess the Collision tapings might run longer if the ROH tapings do, but at the same time, it's damn near free wrestling at that point, if you don't want to stay or aren't interested that's fine, but I don't really see anything detrimental about it at all
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cjb01: Limited Edition Item!
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Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on Sept 13, 2023 15:07:50 GMT -5
But they only sell for 5-7K capacities Those venues are bigger but you don't factor in that they do not sell the tickets for hard cam side or the ones blocked by the entranceway. Every wrestling venue does this. The reason they dont open the hard cam side is because ticket sales are down. When ticket sales were going well for AEW about 2 years ago and they were literally outselling WWE in a lot of markets, they would sell tickets on that side.
On Saturday Collision was held in an arena that has a capacity of just under 20 thousand, they sold less than 4000 tickets.
Dynamite in Chicago did less than 4 thousand, thats a place they used to sell a lot better.
People can deny it all they want, but AEW's ticket sales in America have been trending in the wrong direction for quite some time now and Tony needs to do something about it.
I still don't agree with this assessment entirely that they've been trending in the wrong direction for "quite some time". As for hard cam sells, when they first returned from the pandemic? Yeah that makes sense, but even WWE at a lot of events do not sell hard cam tickets. Sometimes they open them up with high demand, but when we see those "incriminating" shots it's because hard cam sides weren't opened, and we've seen that in both companies Some arenas doing lower is fair, and they do need to stop running Chicago so much, it's taxing that market. Going to other places they've never been is usually a boom for their markets and show the high demand and they had been doing that this year and been drawing really well. It's a matter of the market, how much they've tapped the market, and how they've opened up arenas to sell. I guess it'll be something they keep monitoring but given they just did 80K plus at Wembley, I assume Tony isn't sweating attendance figures right now overall. We'll see how shows continue to fill out though. |
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Post by kingoftheindies on Sept 13, 2023 19:24:40 GMT -5
Long term I think AEW is fine as a lot of the metrics are doing well. Attendance I am now leaning towards it being a combo of things. Ticket sales are usually from long term repercussions. I think it's all from long term issues from 2022 and even from Punk's return. THe shows have been mostly positive since but once you have a bit of a downturn, unless something gets very hot, it takes AWHILE to recover.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2023 19:26:17 GMT -5
NoDQ continues their award winning journalism
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cjb01: Limited Edition Item!
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Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on Sept 13, 2023 19:37:15 GMT -5
Crowd tonight looks great on camera
Super easy for No DQ to just take a picture of the hard cam side or where tickets aren't being distributed and say the company is in a bad way. Not shocked they got called out on their BS and now they're just gonna go full anti-AEW tbh
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Post by kjakab HAD a father on Sept 13, 2023 19:38:42 GMT -5
Watch out Collision in Korea! AEW is catching up.
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Post by The Captain on Sept 13, 2023 19:39:05 GMT -5
It's because Danhaussen and Action Brunson aren't there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2023 20:07:56 GMT -5
This is crazy cause it doesn't translate to tv at all.  |
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cjb01: Limited Edition Item!
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Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on Sept 13, 2023 20:14:23 GMT -5
They didn't sell tickets on the hard cam side, so gasp, the hard cam side is empty
WWE does the same thing, there are pictures you can dig up of big WWE events with no fans just like this on that side of the arena
This is a complete nothingburger that gets brought up every few months it feels like.
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HIM
Dennis Stamp
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Post by HIM on Sept 13, 2023 20:21:47 GMT -5
This is crazy cause it doesn't translate to tv at all. Damn that's nuts. Shoutout to them for being good at hiding shit lol. |
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cjb01: Limited Edition Item!
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Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on Sept 13, 2023 20:22:53 GMT -5
This is crazy cause it doesn't translate to tv at all. Damn that's nuts. Shoutout to them for being good at hiding shit lol. Every company does this WWE's done it a multitude of times when hard cam seats aren't sold It's why I think it's so meaningless when people camera it to act like the companies are struggling tbh |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2023 20:24:03 GMT -5
They didn't sell tickets on the hard cam side, so gasp, the hard cam side is empty WWE does the same thing, there are pictures you can dig up of big WWE events with no fans just like this on that side of the arena This is a complete nothingburger that gets brought up every few months it feels like. I have just started reporting at this point... This has been going on for two years now. This is the 3rd time today when I have not been trying to communicate with you at all but your the first one to respond in this never ending conversation I can't find myself out of to participate here. I am leaving for the evening as I can tell things are testy today for some reason and I am not looking to catch anything. Please just breath...I promise you nothing I say is important. In particular, cjb and Rick Styles. So that ends now, period. You two, no replying to each other directly or indirectly because you two can't play nice in class. One or the other, or both, has blocked each other at some point yet that didn't seem to stop things. There's precedent for this, as mods have been known to ban people from posting in threads. So, that's what we're gonna do. Don't reply to each other, don't make comments regarding things that one or the other had said. If not, a suspension or even a ban is in order. Perhaps the latter since both of you have been suspended before, and neither have taken that to heart. I don't care who's right here. You two argue, over and over and over again and this drags others to counter argue and make things worse. This is non negotiable. |
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HIM
Dennis Stamp
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Post by HIM on Sept 13, 2023 20:30:49 GMT -5
Damn that's nuts. Shoutout to them for being good at hiding shit lol. Every company does this WWE's done it a multitude of times when hard cam seats aren't sold It's why I think it's so meaningless when people camera it to act like the companies are struggling tbh Man I don't care. It's still funny to me lol. |
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fw91
Crow T. Robot
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
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Post by fw91 on Sept 13, 2023 20:32:08 GMT -5
They didn't sell tickets on the hard cam side, so gasp, the hard cam side is empty WWE does the same thing, there are pictures you can dig up of big WWE events with no fans just like this on that side of the arenaThis is a complete nothingburger that gets brought up every few months it feels like. Do they though? Not trying to be antagonistic, but every TV show I've been too (granted it's NYC) the arena is jammed packed all over. |
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