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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 23, 2022 10:47:25 GMT -5
Kingston going at Sammy and whatnot has definitely slowed him down this year, but you wouldn't have MJF name dropping him in promos if he was just done or something. Does seem to me that very often there's some kind of context to why we don't hear from someone for awhile (injuries that crop up, some outside interest keeping them away for awhile) and we ascribe "getting derailed" to it. Personally I really don't mind waiting a bit for someone to get their turn back on the main storyline merry go round; the roster's huge, a lot of these guys are young, so long as the shows are still solid I really don't mind waiting a little while. There's also how often we say someone's been "derailed", but then it turns out they're still very over, so it's more "I want to see more of (insert name here)", less "this is actively hurting/sabotaging/whatever (insert name here)".
As for Miro, dude was booked as an absolute monster as TNT champion, lost the belt, got hurt, went away for while (sounded like combination of filming something but also returning to Bulgaria due to an ailing relative), returns for the HoB angle but that got derailed for well-documented reasons, but now we're stuck in this weird situation. I don't get the problem with him potentially losing a match to Hobbs, if that's indeed what went on here: dude was built up huge, it's ok to use that to get a newer guy over, and I highly, highly doubt it'd hurt Miro much, especially if it came late in a tournament where he'd likely have picked up some big wins along the way. If you want the guy to be a main eventer and not "just" a monster heel, he needs to be able to take a loss and come back from it, and losing what would've likely been a hoss war shouldn't really be a problem.
That said, I have no idea what kinds of discussions he and the office are having; it's possible that whatever the office is putting forward sucks. It's possible Miro's being overly picky about what he's being asked to do.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 23, 2022 12:57:11 GMT -5
Again with Miro, if he didn't like something that was presented to him and he turned the idea down fine, but when you turn something down you have to wait for something to come up again.
I think with AEW you can say you should have something for Miro which... fair. But also right now they're clearly focusing on other talent.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Dec 23, 2022 13:46:44 GMT -5
Again with Miro, if he didn't like something that was presented to him and he turned the idea down fine, but when you turn something down you have to wait for something to come up again. I think with AEW you can say you should have something for Miro which... fair. But also right now they're clearly focusing on other talent. Along with other talent, the focus has been on younger talent like your Top Flights, your Takeshitas, your Nightingales, people who you want the audience to get used to for the long term so it’s trying to keep that balance between doing that and keeping around your Jerichos, your Moxleys, your Danielsons etc.
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Post by polarbearpete on Dec 23, 2022 15:22:57 GMT -5
Again with Miro, if he didn't like something that was presented to him and he turned the idea down fine, but when you turn something down you have to wait for something to come up again. I think with AEW you can say you should have something for Miro which... fair. But also right now they're clearly focusing on other talent. Miro seemed to be saying they also didn’t have anything for him from Feb to June, and the one thing he turned down was in September after All Out. Not sure why he can just turn things down, I assume they’re paying him
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Schizo
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Post by Schizo on Dec 23, 2022 16:17:16 GMT -5
Might not be a popular take but whatever, but I would like for him to try a second run in WWE. I just have no confidence he’s going to amount to anything in AEW anymore, they really butchered him I feel sence he started in AEW even with a pretty decent TNT title run. Big fan of the guy, great wrestler was misused from time in WWE and alot in AEW. Imo I think he would thrive in the current environment on WWE
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 23, 2022 16:54:16 GMT -5
I thank you for that, so my thoughts on those listed are: - Kingston just had a huge match with Jun Akiyama which he won, and has been featured steadily on AEW television in feuds all year and is still incredibly over, he hasn't won a big title yet, but he's in a position where imo he can easily get there when given the opportunity, the MJF promo where he called him out proved that - FTR didn't win the AEW Tag Titles, but have been presented as a constant force the entire year, right up until now where they've hit a storyline slump. FTR/Bricoes might have just had match of the year a few weeks ago, I think of all the ones listed these guys have been in the best position, constantly featured, and very rarely losing - Darby's in a nice spot where he's with Sting and keeps winning feuds he's in. He brings the best out of his opponents constantly and to me he doesn't need a belt right now. I am sure he'll get there again though, it feels like he's gonna be a huge part of when Sting finally hangs it up. - Wardlow's momentum got rocked by the MJF incident, he at the very least had a fine TNT Title reign and now with a more defined direction is feuding with Joe, and I feel like that's a good spot for him, and the crowd still decidedly seems into him. He just didn't rocket power his way to the world title like people thought, but idk if that's the worst thing really. He has a lot of time and 2023's looking better for him - Garcia's an interesting one, because Regal leaving I feel stopped a few BCC storylines and they re-calibrated. There's no doubt he was getting over as a face for them to hit the reset button, I think the end game is still for Garcia to turn on Jericho, but I think doing it internally as he gets more and more annoyed at Sammy Guevara is an easy way for the crowd to love him again, because the crowd hates Guevara just that much. I'm not saying Tony Khan is a perfect man or that things couldn't be going better for some wrestlers and their pushes, and I am also advocating that things go better for these wrestlers. I just don't think all hope is lost, especially with the ones you noted. It's also not that I don't see some of the issues pointed out either. So if you could please stop calling me a white knight who "Has to defend everything AEW" that'd be f***ing fantastic tbh, because I don't do that, but I will counterpoint something if I see the logic to, and that's all I'm continuing to do, which is why I asked for you to give me examples to see where I stood on the situations, not even entirely disagreeing with what you're saying, just giving my response, that's what the board does. So essentially, we can do without that, you didn't need to include that in your post, and I wasn't being a dick towards you whatsoever for you to throw that in there just to make me feel bad. Frankly, shit like this is exhausting for me, and I do not and did not call you an "AEW Hater" nor dismiss your thoughts for not being on the same product wavelength as me or being more down on certain aspects of the product. I thought your points were constructive. It'd be nice to be given the same respect when I dare reply to someone anymore without enjoying a product being thrown in my face like some weapon, instead of being called some blind white knight defender all the time. Sorry for the second half of this turning into a vent, but I'm just tired man, I feel like this just keeps happening and I'm getting poked until I eventually have to say something, and I hope what I said doesn't ruffle any feathers, cause that's never my intention either. I like this place, I've been here a decade, and I hate being considered a problem after all that time. *Kingston's huge match was render into into a pre show match without any build up. He's also consistently lost every feud including one to Jericho which seemed to have really set him back * FTR was the hottest tag team most this year but spend most of the time in heatless feuds and Tony Khan didn't do anything note with them * Wardlow momentum definitely took a hit and no it had nothing to do with MJF since he still got a huge pop when he destroyed him. But booking him in random feuds throw away feuds that like FTR were heatless didn't help. Tony thought it was actually a good idea to have Wardlow feud with security guards fresh off his MJF feud * Darby's feuds have just felt like random generated matches and Tony Khan has done nothing that actually give his feuds any interest or hype. *Garcia's going to have suffer the same problem to do with everyone where they wait too long for anyone cares anymore with pulling the trigger and there's things too called "striking while the irons hot". No one can go on this form making any critical comment on AEW without you jumping in having to defend them aggressively or obnoxiously at every turn. All the while you will have no issue trashing WWE (and as always I want to make it clear I ain't defending WWE neither because they do a lot of crap too) Instead of trying to backtrack and act like I was just being unnecessarily aggressive own the fact that you perhaps get overly defensive of AEW. Again no wrestling company is perfect. Respect the fact not everyone is going to sing the praise of Tony or AEW. I've criticized AEW before, and sorry if me wanting to discuss points I may disagree with is me "obnoxiously defending AEW" I guess, but I'm not going to apologize for trying to discuss shit on a discussion forum, nor have I ever said AEW is perfect or that they can do no wrong, that's absolutely unnecessary to try and paint me in this light all because I'm more negative towards WWE (A product I've found plenty of positive things to say about too) Never once did I backtrack either, I asked for examples of who was being misused in AEW because it was a broad statement, and since it's not been two straight posts of you trying to tell me who I am and what I do, when that's not me at all, and like it's supposed to devalue my statements and make my opinions and takes on wrestlers far lesser than yours. I do respect the fact that not everyone likes AEW, there have been countless negative threads and posts here I have ignored entirely, but you don't seem to respect the fact that all I was doing was trying to create a discussion point where I saw it, and am being told I'm this "AEW can do no wrong white knight", which I guess invalidates everything I'm saying because it's not a straight "These wrestlers are being used like shit and they deserve shit for it" post in total agreement. Again, I did not once call you some AEW hater, or shit on your points or anything like that, if you wanna throw out the topic of respect? Maybe actually read my posts, I respect everyone here who gives me the same. Currently? Can't say you're giving me any respect, you're just shooting me down because I decided to have a different opinion or outlook than yourself and that's apparently a problem, so it's a two way street, and I'll leave it at that because this thread doesn't need any more clutter.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 23, 2022 17:03:18 GMT -5
Might not be a popular take but whatever, but I would like for him to try a second run in WWE. I just have no confidence he’s going to amount to anything in AEW anymore, they really butchered him I feel sence he started in AEW even with a pretty decent TNT title run. Big fan of the guy, great wrestler was misused from time in WWE and alot in AEW. Imo I think he would thrive in the current environment on WWE Miro has a 23-4 record in AEW, he's been pinned a grand total of twice by Guevara and Danielson (Miro was also an alternate for that Danielson match so it was last minute he'd lose there anyway, match ruled too) I can't really say he's been "butchered", they need to find something for him obviously, something that works, but they have always propped him up and presented him as a big deal in AEW when he has had runs. He was also not misused "From time" in WWE and "A lot" in AEW, he was misused A LOT in WWE. I watched his entire run, from losing to Cena in his first big match, to being de-pushed because he made his relationship with Lana public so the Dolph/Summer storyline just ended, jobbing out to Big Show, the cuckhold angle with Lashley, the de-emphasis of Rusev Day because Vince said they were laughing at him, not with him, I could really go on. Could he do better with HHH in charge? Maybe, it's not Vince anymore, but I really have to disagree that he would "thrive" in WWE now, there's no telling who would succeed or not there right now, or that his AEW run has been such a tragedy in comparison. His WWE run was rough man, really rough. AEW just needs to get him something, and he'll be right back to doing good stuff there imo.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Dec 23, 2022 17:07:39 GMT -5
I tend to think they’ve pretty dramatically fumbled Miro since his TNT run ended but Kingston wants to be where he is right now. He streamed with Evil Uno and said he wants to fight KENTA on Zero Hour next. He enjoys Zero Hour because they care less about time than they do on the main show.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 23, 2022 17:08:41 GMT -5
I tend to think they’ve pretty dramatically fumbled Miro since his TNT run ended but Kingston wants to be where he is right now. He streamed with Evil Uno and said he wants to fight KENTA on Zero Hour next. He enjoys Zero Hour because they care less about time than they do on the main show. Damn, give me that match please lol
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Post by tntchamp on Dec 23, 2022 17:10:46 GMT -5
*Kingston's huge match was render into into a pre show match without any build up. He's also consistently lost every feud including one to Jericho which seemed to have really set him back * FTR was the hottest tag team most this year but spend most of the time in heatless feuds and Tony Khan didn't do anything note with them * Wardlow momentum definitely took a hit and no it had nothing to do with MJF since he still got a huge pop when he destroyed him. But booking him in random feuds throw away feuds that like FTR were heatless didn't help. Tony thought it was actually a good idea to have Wardlow feud with security guards fresh off his MJF feud * Darby's feuds have just felt like random generated matches and Tony Khan has done nothing that actually give his feuds any interest or hype. *Garcia's going to have suffer the same problem to do with everyone where they wait too long for anyone cares anymore with pulling the trigger and there's things too called "striking while the irons hot". No one can go on this form making any critical comment on AEW without you jumping in having to defend them aggressively or obnoxiously at every turn. All the while you will have no issue trashing WWE (and as always I want to make it clear I ain't defending WWE neither because they do a lot of crap too) Instead of trying to backtrack and act like I was just being unnecessarily aggressive own the fact that you perhaps get overly defensive of AEW. Again no wrestling company is perfect. Respect the fact not everyone is going to sing the praise of Tony or AEW. I've criticized AEW before, and sorry if me wanting to discuss points I may disagree with is me "obnoxiously defending AEW" I guess, but I'm not going to apologize for trying to discuss shit on a discussion forum, nor have I ever said AEW is perfect or that they can do no wrong, that's absolutely unnecessary to try and paint me in this light all because I'm more negative towards WWE (A product I've found plenty of positive things to say about too) Never once did I backtrack either, I asked for examples of who was being misused in AEW because it was a broad statement, and since it's not been two straight posts of you trying to tell me who I am and what I do, when that's not me at all, and like it's supposed to devalue my statements and make my opinions and takes on wrestlers far lesser than yours. I do respect the fact that not everyone likes AEW, there have been countless negative threads and posts here I have ignored entirely, but you don't seem to respect the fact that all I was doing was trying to create a discussion point where I saw it, and am being told I'm this "AEW can do no wrong white knight", which I guess invalidates everything I'm saying because it's not a straight "These wrestlers are being used like shit and they deserve shit for it" post in total agreement. Again, I did not once call you some AEW hater, or shit on your points or anything like that, if you wanna throw out the topic of respect? Maybe actually read my posts, I respect everyone here who gives me the same. Currently? Can't say you're giving me any respect, you're just shooting me down because I decided to have a different opinion or outlook than yourself and that's apparently a problem, so it's a two way street, and I'll leave it at that because this thread doesn't need any more clutter. Except you clearly didn't read my post because by my back tracking comment I meant you clearly coming at me aggressively when I talked about AEW's misuse of wrestlers and then acting like I just unjustly snapped on you. This seems to happen with any person that makes critical comments of the company even minor ones. I don't see countless negative post here at all (and compared to other places, this is a pretty pro AEW place) but I do see people that do make some critical comments that you have to jump on and quote them on. I stand by my "obnoxiously white knighting comments" because I call it how I see it. I think you do have double standards but regardless of what I live by the saying to each their own and enjoy what you like. You have said your piece and I have said mine. Lets leave it here.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 23, 2022 17:23:31 GMT -5
I've criticized AEW before, and sorry if me wanting to discuss points I may disagree with is me "obnoxiously defending AEW" I guess, but I'm not going to apologize for trying to discuss shit on a discussion forum, nor have I ever said AEW is perfect or that they can do no wrong, that's absolutely unnecessary to try and paint me in this light all because I'm more negative towards WWE (A product I've found plenty of positive things to say about too) Never once did I backtrack either, I asked for examples of who was being misused in AEW because it was a broad statement, and since it's not been two straight posts of you trying to tell me who I am and what I do, when that's not me at all, and like it's supposed to devalue my statements and make my opinions and takes on wrestlers far lesser than yours. I do respect the fact that not everyone likes AEW, there have been countless negative threads and posts here I have ignored entirely, but you don't seem to respect the fact that all I was doing was trying to create a discussion point where I saw it, and am being told I'm this "AEW can do no wrong white knight", which I guess invalidates everything I'm saying because it's not a straight "These wrestlers are being used like shit and they deserve shit for it" post in total agreement. Again, I did not once call you some AEW hater, or shit on your points or anything like that, if you wanna throw out the topic of respect? Maybe actually read my posts, I respect everyone here who gives me the same. Currently? Can't say you're giving me any respect, you're just shooting me down because I decided to have a different opinion or outlook than yourself and that's apparently a problem, so it's a two way street, and I'll leave it at that because this thread doesn't need any more clutter. Except you clearly didn't read my post because by my back tracking comment I meant you clearly coming at me aggressively when I talked about AEW's misuse of wrestlers and then acting like I just unjustly snapped on you. This seems to happen with any person that makes critical comments of the company even minor ones. I don't see countless negative post here at all (and compared to other places, this is a pretty pro AEW place) but I do see people that do make some critical comments that you have to jump on and quote them on. I stand by my "obnoxiously white knighting comments" because I call it how I see it. I think you do have double standards but regardless of what I live by the saying to each their own and enjoy what you like. You have said your piece and I have said mine. Lets leave it here. Yeah, you have your opinion on me and how I operate, and frankly, you have no actual clue who I am, and how I perceive things, despite how it seems like you have me all figured out for how I sometimes respond on a message board. I'm just going to say this flat out, I did not aggressively attack you, I said the post seemed like a blanket statement, so I asked for examples. That was it, anyone can read it, so they're free to form their own thoughts on that too. I apologize if that's how it came off, it wasn't my intention, I legitimately just wanted to know who you thought was being misused, and we discussed that part without any issue, the only issue came when you attacked me and my character here. Something I again, never once did to you, despite the fact you've now done it to me in three separate replies. I am not an AEW white knight, and when people make negative posts or posts in general on this board I may respond, I may not, it's as simple as that and how I may see an opportunity to respond to something I can either expand upon or disagree/agree with, if that's obnoxious I'm sorry, that's what this forum was made for, discussion. And while the negativity here is not as bad as other places online, there are constant negative takes, negative thoughts, blowback, opinions, and entire threads where someone may not like something about the company, and that's ok, and I have never once said it isn't even if I sometimes don't agree with the sentiment, and it's not like I'm the only person who ever responds to negativity and criticism here in the slightest bit. I've said all I can on this topic I think, and so have you. Have a good rest of your day.
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Schizo
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Post by Schizo on Dec 23, 2022 17:38:36 GMT -5
Might not be a popular take but whatever, but I would like for him to try a second run in WWE. I just have no confidence he’s going to amount to anything in AEW anymore, they really butchered him I feel sence he started in AEW even with a pretty decent TNT title run. Big fan of the guy, great wrestler was misused from time in WWE and alot in AEW. Imo I think he would thrive in the current environment on WWE Miro has a 23-4 record in AEW, he's been pinned a grand total of twice by Guevara and Danielson (Miro was also an alternate for that Danielson match so it was last minute he'd lose there anyway, match ruled too) I can't really say he's been "butchered", they need to find something for him obviously, something that works, but they have always propped him up and presented him as a big deal in AEW when he has had runs. He was also not misused "From time" in WWE and "A lot" in AEW, he was misused A LOT in WWE. I watched his entire run, from losing to Cena in his first big match, to being de-pushed because he made his relationship with Lana public so the Dolph/Summer storyline just ended, jobbing out to Big Show, the cuckhold angle with Lashley, the de-emphasis of Rusev Day because Vince said they were laughing at him, not with him, I could really go on. Could he do better with HHH in charge? Maybe, it's not Vince anymore, but I really have to disagree that he would "thrive" in WWE now, there's no telling who would succeed or not there right now, or that his AEW run has been such a tragedy in comparison. His WWE run was rough man, really rough. AEW just needs to get him something, and he'll be right back to doing good stuff there imo. Than whatever, agree to disagree
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Post by Zombie Mod on Dec 23, 2022 17:54:39 GMT -5
have an hour to calm down the lot of you.
No more potshots at each other.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 23, 2022 21:01:29 GMT -5
Honestly though, *if* it's true that he's refusing to job to people, I can see why they're just moving on. He's not that big of a star.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Dec 23, 2022 21:30:24 GMT -5
Honestly though, *if* it's true that he's refusing to job to people, I can see why they're just moving on. He's not that big of a star. Miro has potential to be a big star, dude's super talented, but if he's going to get up his own ass about it then he's not like so big a potential star that it seems worth letting him call his own shots there.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 23, 2022 23:06:54 GMT -5
Honestly though, *if* it's true that he's refusing to job to people, I can see why they're just moving on. He's not that big of a star. Miro has potential to be a big star, dude's super talented, but if he's going to get up his own ass about it then he's not like so big a potential star that it seems worth letting him call his own shots there. Losing to Hobbs wouldn't even be a huge loss for Miro tbh, Hobbs is on the come up and if he lost he could easy get his momentum back off of it. Hobb's is an organic star they're trying to build and Miro's already established. I get Miro wanting to protect his image and be presented as an upper card player, but if the dude was willing to drop a belt clean to Guevara, I don't see why Hobbs is an issue.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Dec 23, 2022 23:47:32 GMT -5
Dave and Garrett discuss the general point of talent possibly viewing WWE as "the major leagues"
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Dec 23, 2022 23:50:39 GMT -5
Not to be overt Christian stan poster but excuse me about him being one of the lazy TNA WWE castoffs lmao
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 24, 2022 1:50:16 GMT -5
Miro obviously didn't view AEW as minor leagues compared to WWE when he signed a 4 year extension with them
He's viewing his role as more major than AEW is right now it seems, on his end, but also they signed you through like 2027. Like if they have you signed through that length of time they want to probably use you throughout the cards, hence the Hobbs feud proposition, but what confuses me about this "major leagues" thing is he's willing to go through the shit WWE gave him with cuckhold angles and jobbing out to various wrestlers, but in AEW he suddenly has issue with storylines or losing to a particular wrestler, despite having a heavy extension on the books?
Something just doesn't really add up to me in any of these discussions. I almost expect Miro to show up on the first New Years Dynamite just to troll everyone lmfao
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Dec 24, 2022 1:55:54 GMT -5
Miro obviously didn't view AEW as minor leagues compared to WWE when he signed a 4 year extension with them He's viewing his role as more major than AEW is right now it seems, on his end, but also they signed you through like 2027. Like if they have you signed through that length of time they want to probably use you throughout the cards, hence the Hobbs feud proposition, but what confuses me about this "major leagues" thing is he's willing to go through the shit WWE gave him with cuckhold angles and jobbing out to various wrestlers, but in AEW he suddenly has issue with storylines or losing to a particular wrestler, despite having a heavy extension on the books? Something just doesn't really add up to me in any of these discussions. I almost expect Miro to show up on the first New Years Dynamite just to troll everyone lmfao An extension he signed ten months ago, back when the person running WWE was the same guy who allegedly viewed him as 'undeserving' of his wife and wrote storylines with that view of them. I think a lot of guys signed on with AEW believing it was their best bet only for Vince to be ousted and for problems to arise. In some cases, like Black, it was complicated and has been resolved, but for someone like Andrade, clearly the desire is just to get the f*** out and run back into Triple H's arms. Tough to say for sure where Miro lands, but his extension being signed months before all the rest of 2022 dropped might in fact be a big element of why difficulties could be creeping up.
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