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Post by theironyuppie on Nov 25, 2022 23:50:22 GMT -5
Having an angle with Raquel getting injured for quite a while has made what was already a thin division even thinner. In terms of potential opponents for Ronda, there's now:
- Shotzi (about to lose) - Liv (already lost)
- Emma (already lost)
As is, the heel side has Ronda/Shayna and then basically a set of jobbers in Lacey/Sonya/Xia. There's a few other women (Zelina/'Valhalla'/Scarlet/Maxxine Dupri/B-Fab), but they're being used largely as valets. It almost feels at this point that there has to be a return after Ronda/Shotzi tomorrow night to try and create more interest over the next couple of months. Even if you assume Ronda/Becky is the Mania plan, it's a rough road ahead in the short term.
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Post by mistery on Nov 25, 2022 23:57:03 GMT -5
The problem all boils down to Ronda basically never being allowed to lose decisively. It's the same problem RAW has, although Ronda's case is much more extreme since she has pretty much no upside now. There's two types of Ronda matches. Good Ronda matches, and Bad Ronda matches. Nothing in between. And considering Shotzi is not great...like at all in the ring, I'm leaning towards this being the bad type of Ronda match.
I said it in the SD discussion thread, and I'll say it again here. Assuming Ronda is still gone after Wrestlemania next year, it's nothing but a net positive for the women there, as she won't be an anchor on the division anymore. As for the rest of the division, a lot of the women there just simply are not good at all in the ring or are poor on the mic. And there's no one in NXT right now who could be called up to shake up that division enough right now.
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Nov 26, 2022 0:01:27 GMT -5
The twothree archetypes in the division are:
-Tough & Credible
-Loser Dweeb Who Can Maybe Luck Their Way Into a Rollup Win (but will still get their ass kicked by the above afterwards)
-Valets as mentioned
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Post by theironyuppie on Nov 26, 2022 0:09:42 GMT -5
The problem all boils down to Ronda basically never being allowed to lose decisively. It's the same problem RAW has, although Ronda's case is much more extreme since she has pretty much no upside now. There's two types of Ronda matches. Good Ronda matches, and Bad Ronda matches. Nothing in between. And considering Shotzi is not great...like at all in the ring, I'm leaning towards this being the bad type of Ronda match. I said it in the SD discussion thread, and I'll say it again here. Assuming Ronda is still gone after Wrestlemania next year, it's nothing but a net positive for the women there, as she won't be an anchor on the division anymore. As for the rest of the division, a lot of the women there just simply are not good at all in the ring or are poor on the mic. And there's no one in NXT right now who could be called up to shake up that division enough right now.
I think the issue is that there's a lot of people who need building, but also nobody credible to build them up. And it's compounded by the crowd's (understandable) apathy towards much of the roster.
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Post by mistery on Nov 26, 2022 0:14:05 GMT -5
The problem all boils down to Ronda basically never being allowed to lose decisively. It's the same problem RAW has, although Ronda's case is much more extreme since she has pretty much no upside now. There's two types of Ronda matches. Good Ronda matches, and Bad Ronda matches. Nothing in between. And considering Shotzi is not great...like at all in the ring, I'm leaning towards this being the bad type of Ronda match. I said it in the SD discussion thread, and I'll say it again here. Assuming Ronda is still gone after Wrestlemania next year, it's nothing but a net positive for the women there, as she won't be an anchor on the division anymore. As for the rest of the division, a lot of the women there just simply are not good at all in the ring or are poor on the mic. And there's no one in NXT right now who could be called up to shake up that division enough right now.
I think the issue is that there's a lot of people who need building, but also nobody credible to build them up. And it's compounded by the crowd's (understandable) apathy towards much of the roster.
I mean part of the problem with the apathy (and Damage CTRL is a good example of failed potential) is that they are just constantly being fed to the top women without ever really getting to look good. Both Bianca and Ronda are basically never actually allowed to look weak for more than a week at a time, and no woman is positioned as a threat towards them. Rhea is the closest thing to being a threat towards Bianca, but we all know that if Rhea gets a title shot before Mania, she isn't winning it. And even then I wouldn't be shocked if Bianca holds it past Mania as well. Chiral posted about it, but there are three tiers of women in WWE: - Tough certified main eventers (Bianca, Becky, Ronda, Charlotte) - Women used to big up the main eventers and nothing more (every woman who isn't a valet or backstage interviewer) - Valets and Backstage Interviewers |
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Post by theironyuppie on Nov 26, 2022 0:27:59 GMT -5
I think the issue is that there's a lot of people who need building, but also nobody credible to build them up. And it's compounded by the crowd's (understandable) apathy towards much of the roster.
I mean part of the problem with the apathy (and Damage CTRL is a good example of failed potential) is that they are just constantly being fed to the top women without ever really getting to look good. Both Bianca and Ronda are basically never actually allowed to look weak for more than a week at a time, and no woman is positioned as a threat towards them. Rhea is the closest thing to being a threat towards Bianca, but we all know that if Rhea gets a title shot before Mania, she isn't winning it. And even then I wouldn't be shocked if Bianca holds it past Mania as well. Chiral posted about it, but there are three tiers of women in WWE: - Tough certified main eventers (Bianca, Becky, Ronda, Charlotte) - Women used to big up the main eventers and nothing more (every woman who isn't a valet or backstage interviewer) - Valets and Backstage Interviewers
I wouldn't have said this in the Vince era, but it does feel like Rhea's being built up as someone to potentially enter that top tier. For people's concerns about Raquel, it feels like she's still a fair way off getting a big run.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Nov 26, 2022 1:09:18 GMT -5
I feel like this whole Shotzi thing is kind of emblematic of the larger issue in how the division is booked.
On the one hand, you have the women that WWE wants to book as nigh-unbeatable (like Ronda).
But then they don’t do much of anything to make the rest feel important. Like before this feud started, Shotzi had won ONE match on TV since July, and that was in NXT. So now they’ve had to rush this build in only a couple of weeks. But they still haven’t really presented her as a true threat to Ronda even now.
And that goes for almost everyone there.
They need more equity in the women’s division, it’s not big enough to keep booking this way imo.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Nov 26, 2022 1:33:32 GMT -5
The women’s division is definitely a weak point of Smackdown right now. The WWE, IC and Tag titles have been producing hot angles or matches consistently but Ronda feels ice cold as champion right now with nothing exciting really on the horizon unless they draft someone over from Raw.
I’m not sure why Raw is so stacked compared to Smackdown. There are like 6-7 women on Raw who would immediately be a top 1 or 2 star in the Smackdown division. It doesn’t even have to be a Bianca or Becky. Asuka or Alexa would be very useful for Smackdown right now.
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Post by griti kitty on Nov 26, 2022 1:36:59 GMT -5
Despite having inferior talent, NXT's women's division feels so much better than the main roster because at all times they have so many storylines going with the women. You can have a hierarchy as long as people have something to do and not feel like an after thought. I enjoyed the little mini Liv/Sonya feud had because they almost never have a feud that doesn't involve the titles on the main roster.
Active feuds on main roster:
Damage Ctrl vs Bianca & Friends
Shotzi vs Ronda
Mia vs Rhea
Current NXT feuds:
Zoey vs Nikkita
Fallon vs Kiana
Wendy vs Cora
Roxanne vs Indi
Elektra vs Indi
Alba vs. Isla
Toxic vs. Kayden/Katana
All of these storylines were featured just on NXT this week. That doesn't even include women on NXT who are featured in other storylines like Thea Hail, Ivy Nile and Ava Raine or Mandy, who doesn't have challenger right now.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 26, 2022 4:27:34 GMT -5
Bringing Emma in was a start, but yeah, the Smackdown women's division is handily the weakest one in mainstream wrestling. The lack of depth of active women is tough to get around, both in the short term and in the longterm.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 26, 2022 4:30:45 GMT -5
Despite having inferior talent, NXT's women's division feels so much better than the main roster because at all times they have so many storylines going with the women. You can have a hierarchy as long as people have something to do and not feel like an after thought. I enjoyed the little mini Liv/Sonya feud had because they almost never have a feud that doesn't involve the titles on the main roster. Active feuds on main roster: Damage Ctrl vs Bianca & Friends Shotzi vs Ronda Mia vs Rhea Current NXT feuds: Zoey vs Nikkita Fallon vs Kiana Wendy vs Cora Roxanne vs Indi Elektra vs Indi Alba vs. Isla Toxic vs. Kayden/Katana All of these storylines were featured just on NXT this week. That doesn't even include women on NXT who are featured in other storylines like Thea Hail, Ivy Nile and Ava Raine or Mandy, who doesn't have challenger right now. It's funny that for such a wonky out there show NXT is the brand that by far utilizes it whole roster the best. Pretty much everyone has a purpose and usually has something to do. Indi Hartwell having two feuds while being basically a midcard wrestler in the division is a perfect demonstration of that. |
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Post by theironyuppie on Nov 26, 2022 5:13:27 GMT -5
Despite having inferior talent, NXT's women's division feels so much better than the main roster because at all times they have so many storylines going with the women. You can have a hierarchy as long as people have something to do and not feel like an after thought. I enjoyed the little mini Liv/Sonya feud had because they almost never have a feud that doesn't involve the titles on the main roster. Active feuds on main roster: Damage Ctrl vs Bianca & Friends Shotzi vs Ronda Mia vs Rhea Current NXT feuds: Zoey vs Nikkita Fallon vs Kiana Wendy vs Cora Roxanne vs Indi Elektra vs Indi Alba vs. Isla Toxic vs. Kayden/Katana All of these storylines were featured just on NXT this week. That doesn't even include women on NXT who are featured in other storylines like Thea Hail, Ivy Nile and Ava Raine or Mandy, who doesn't have challenger right now. It's funny that for such a wonky out there show NXT is the brand that by far utilizes it whole roster the best. Pretty much everyone has a purpose and usually has something to do. Indi Hartwell having two feuds while being basically a midcard wrestler in the division is a perfect demonstration of that.
I think NXT is helped in that it's expected to have really short matches sometimes to continue feuds, but it is interesting.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 26, 2022 5:51:51 GMT -5
It's funny that for such a wonky out there show NXT is the brand that by far utilizes it whole roster the best. Pretty much everyone has a purpose and usually has something to do. Indi Hartwell having two feuds while being basically a midcard wrestler in the division is a perfect demonstration of that. I think NXT is helped in that it's expected to have really short matches sometimes to continue feuds, but it is interesting.
I feel a lot of it is more that they do a good job giving the majority of their talent enough wins and making everyone seem at least decently credible and as result it allows them to be more versatile with booking. Kiana James isn't a top player in the division but she gets enough wins and seems important enough that you can put someone in a feud with her and it won't feel like a waste of time. They've given Indi a lot of wins on TV recently so as a result Roxanne beating her will feel like a big deal. Wendy Choo won feuds with Tiffany Stratton and Lash Legend and as a result was then in a better position to put over a heel they value more in Cora Jade. Really the only two regulars who come off like jaybrones are So Ruca and Lash Legend however that's fine as you need people who can do jobs to put over the women you really want to put over. |
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Nov 26, 2022 9:51:45 GMT -5
Charlotte will be back soon, likely winning The Rumble 30 years since here dad did, to go into 'Mania vs Ronda.
We're in holding pattern mode for that I feel.
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Post by theironyuppie on Nov 26, 2022 10:08:21 GMT -5
Charlotte will be back soon, likely winning The Rumble 30 years since here dad did, to go into 'Mania vs Ronda. We're in holding pattern mode for that I feel. Ric’s 30th anniversary was this year. |
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XIII
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Post by XIII on Nov 26, 2022 11:53:36 GMT -5
WWE overall has a problem where there are absolute steamrollers and roadkill with not a whole lot in between.
Take Ronda vs. Shotzi no one has any reason to believe that Shotzi has a chance in hell, despite her not being a total goober.
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J is Justice
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Post by J is Justice on Nov 26, 2022 13:15:16 GMT -5
Charlotte will be back soon, likely winning The Rumble 30 years since here dad did, to go into 'Mania vs Ronda. Oh God, don't say that. |
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A Little Doo Doo
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Post by A Little Doo Doo on Nov 26, 2022 13:22:54 GMT -5
Shotzi will save the division tonight!!!
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Nov 26, 2022 13:47:50 GMT -5
Last night was also another thing that WWE sometimes does that I don’t like. Shotzi is the one going for the title, but it was clear that WWE wanted the focus to be on Raquel and she was made to look good.
It reminds me of Survivor Series last year, where Liv was gunning for Becky’s title. Yet instead of giving her the shine in the SS match, it was about making Bianca look like the Terminator.
Stop doing that WWE. At least PRETEND like these women have ANY shot of actually winning.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Nov 26, 2022 14:04:46 GMT -5
Ronda is not being booked to her strengths right now. For whatever you think about her, being a smarmy heel who mocks opponents is not working for her. If she's going to be a heel, it should be a silent killer who has someone for a mouthpiece. But everything about her from her music to her aura still spells out babyface. Nothing about her presentation adds up.
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