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Post by polarbearpete on Dec 1, 2022 16:21:04 GMT -5
Not saying he needs to be a constant main eventer, but he did fade into the background quite hard. The MJF “feud” was a 2-week program that happened in October, 6 months after the Moxley/Danielson matches. And he had great matches with Garcia when those Mox/Danielson matches were through, and multiple tag/trios matches to keep his momentum up, and the MJF program may have been short but it was still a hot feud where Yuta was over and got great segments like brawling in the skybox The fact Yuta's being pushed more to the foreground again is a good thing anyway, again, I think he's just fine. Yeah, hopefully he can recapture that overness and they’ll sustain the push a little longer. Seems like he might unfortunately be ROH-bound, though.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 1, 2022 16:22:19 GMT -5
And he had great matches with Garcia when those Mox/Danielson matches were through, and multiple tag/trios matches to keep his momentum up, and the MJF program may have been short but it was still a hot feud where Yuta was over and got great segments like brawling in the skybox The fact Yuta's being pushed more to the foreground again is a good thing anyway, again, I think he's just fine. Yeah, hopefully he can recapture that overness and they’ll sustain the push a little longer. Seems like he might unfortunately be ROH-bound, though. He'd be over in ROH as well, and there will be some AEW/ROH crossover and I think he'll be in that group, but they clearly have always had a plan for Wheeler. They like the dude and they should imo.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 1, 2022 16:23:05 GMT -5
And given the response in this very thread, including the comment "I feel like we're watching a different show" with a ton of likes on it, that's not a sentiment shared by everyone, neither is the "Tony Khan Special" being a thing. It being "terribly booked" is very subjective, hell the response Full Gear got here was extremely positive, and personally, I think the bookings been really hitting on all cylinders since we got close to, and are now past Full Gear, now that we're getting past the Punk ripple effect. Yeah, wrestling opinions are subjective so no one is right or wrong here, but I personally think AEW has been booked very well since All Out. It’s felt like a return to form, to me. With respect to the concerns raised in this thread, I guess I don’t understand what “striking while the iron is hot” is with respect to some of these people. Wardlow beating MJF and getting the TNT title was exactly that, to me. Garcia and Yuta outright main evented several TV shows. To me, not everyone can be the world champion. So if “striking while the iron is hot” is nothing short of making someone a main eventer in the traditional sense, then it’s pretty much functionally impossible. It's struck me as a bit odd how often I've seen people over the years want to see wrestling companies with rotating rosters or "off-seasons" for parts of the roster, but when something like that kicks in we sometimes lose our concept of object permanence: Garcia stuck heel and stayed with Jericho, that must mean his story is over, or someone hasn't been on for awhile and that means they're done for, etc. I fully agree that AEW's roster size is just so huge for a company with only three hours of weekly TV that it's become an issue over the last year (again, it's why ROH getting back up and running sooner than later is so key), but I've never really minded having some time to wait before we hit the next beat of a character's story or development...though I'm also a puro guy and know stuff like that often gets dragged out for a long time, which I get doesn't always work for an audience more accustomed to things unfolding week-by-week. Sometimes it's ok to not have some folks in the spotlight; it doesn't mean their stories are over, it doesn't mean what they're doing has been dropped, it just sometimes means we've been left with them at a certain place and soon will likely see them in a different one. Like, I get the annoyance that they didn't strike on a Garcia face turn early on, but I still believe (personal opinion only, obviously) that the plan is for him to hit his breaking point and split off from Jericho. They told part one of that story, now there's been a bit of a cooldown, next he has his rematch with Yuta at Final Battle and most likely we get some kind of development there. Again, I get how subjective this is: for me, I'm fine with waiting for that, but I know that's not how a lot of others like it. Whaddayagonnado. Again, though, even if I'm cool with all that I can still acknowledge the roster is just hella crowded and that does need to get addressed soon and can lead to some folks being away for too long. Hopefully we're a short ways from hearing about the terms of whatever their new deal will be with (likely) WBD, and we'll get the details of what's going to facilitate fixing that part of things.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 1, 2022 16:23:54 GMT -5
But could he make Curry Man ice cold??
Nah for real, it’s too hot for me 🥵
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 1, 2022 16:25:29 GMT -5
But could he make Curry Man ice cold?? Nah for real, it’s too hot for me 🥵
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Post by Sponsored by Groose Wipes on Dec 1, 2022 16:29:10 GMT -5
Tony Khan is pretty much this when it comes to booking. He's playing a real life TEW where every time he gets a new toy, he abandons the pervious one. What sucks is I can totally see Ricky Starks losing to MJF then gets blasted off the face of the AEW Earth.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 1, 2022 16:29:39 GMT -5
But nah, stuff like this is pretty much always gonna happen when you refuse to set a finite number to your roster space and just keep adding new toys to the drawer. There’s a reason why old booking cats talk about having a crew of 20 or less to ensure everybody gets featured (even if folks are obviously on different spots on the card) as you try to establish characters. Otherwise, it’s sooooo easy for folks to get lost in the shuffle.
AEW gives jobs to a ton of folks but the downside to that is, hot acts occasionally get left to burn out cause the chef’s tryna manage too many damn pots. And I’m not saying they should cut folks but you gotta be real that there’s always gonna be a finite amount of screen time even if you make Dark 3 hours or whatever
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 1, 2022 16:33:53 GMT -5
Tony Khan is pretty much this when it comes to booking. He's playing a real life TEW where every time he gets a new toy, he abandons the pervious one. What sucks is I can totally see Ricky Starks losing to MJF then gets blasted off the face of the AEW Earth. I don't agree with this at all, Khan doesn't just move on when he gets a "New Toy" imo, numerous wrestlers have found themselves getting consistent work, if not titles, after coming into AEW. A giant roster is going to yield to some talents not getting a huge rocket push consistently or a title immediately though, that happens everywhere.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Dec 1, 2022 16:34:28 GMT -5
Do definitely have to say that it'd probably help tremendously with the limited amount of time to go around if they'd do shorter matches more often, rotate out certain people more - like just to go for the easy target why does Jay Lethal always have something going on?, stop making every feud last for so long so there's more time for people to do new things, and don't do stupid shit like waste two months worth of screentime on doing the same match every week.
It wouldn't solve everything but you could probably find something for someone like Miro to be doing if you weren't doing half an hour worth of the JAS vs. BCC every week for a year.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 1, 2022 16:38:13 GMT -5
Do definitely have to say that it'd probably help tremendously with the limited amount of time to go around if they'd do shorter matches more often, rotate out certain people more - like just to go for the easy target why does Jay Lethal always have something going on?, stop making every feud last for so long so there's more time for people to do new things, and don't do stupid shit like waste two months worth of screentime on doing the same match every week. It wouldn't solve everything but you could probably find something for someone like Miro to be doing if you weren't doing half an hour worth of the JAS vs. BCC every week for a year. I'm gonna die on a hill and still stand by the fact Jericho and Danielson's matches were really good, and so was Jericho vs Claudio, even if some peeps feel like JAS/BCC ran its course, I do feel like the matches have delivered in a big way I do hope we see Miro again though
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Post by schizo on Dec 1, 2022 16:41:48 GMT -5
Tony Khan is pretty much this when it comes to booking. He's playing a real life TEW where every time he gets a new toy, he abandons the pervious one. What sucks is I can totally see Ricky Starks losing to MJF then gets blasted off the face of the AEW Earth. Should probably put Miro’s name over Woody
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 1, 2022 16:44:47 GMT -5
Tony Khan is pretty much this when it comes to booking. He's playing a real life TEW where every time he gets a new toy, he abandons the pervious one. What sucks is I can totally see Ricky Starks losing to MJF then gets blasted off the face of the AEW Earth. Should probably put Miro’s name over Woody Miro went off to do shoots for months and then his return storyline got derailed because Malakai needed to take a mental health break for a few months But sure it's Tony Khan's fault entirely. And yeah he could find another spot for Miro and hopefully he does soon, but Miro isn't the only one who has hit speedbumps lately, we probably won't ever truly know how much scrumgate f***ed up, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say both Punk going away forever and The Elite going away completely for three months changed a lot of wrestlers immediate plans.
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Post by tntchamp on Dec 1, 2022 16:55:44 GMT -5
Kind of been my main issue with Khan's booking. Too many guys have felt like they had some major white hot momentum and Khan did not know how to follow it through. Even compared to last year, there seems like a lot of guys even from last like Miro, Darby and Eddie who felt like they have lost the momentum they had last year and almost seem like they are just stumbling around in random feuds. Eddie's still white hot over, MJF mentioned him in a single sentence and the entire crowd chanted his name Miro's had issues with movie shoot timing and House of Black becoming a non entity right when he came back, but he's also still very over and will get momentum right back when he shows up again Darby's been with Sting, everything they've done has been over, and people seem to really love the act, and it's been helping Darby out imo, dudes gonna be a part of Muta's last match, I'm sure he's enjoying this Do they need a feud to sink into? I can agree with that, but it doesn't feel like they've lost anything with the crowds. They are over and I won't take that away from them (not the least being they are talented) but they tend to feel aimless or the sense Tony could get more out of them but doesn't know when to strike while its hot.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Dec 1, 2022 16:56:14 GMT -5
I don't think, "Tony hasn't been able to come up with any alternative ideas three months after things went sideways with Malakai," is exactly a winning argument that he's good at his job. There've been 25 episodes of television since then, there's been time for Miro to do something else.
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Post by flowercity on Dec 1, 2022 16:58:50 GMT -5
I know people may be (rightfully) sour on my clickbaity thread title but this is what Im getting at. Tony, more than most bookers, can get someone so hot. He does it constantly. I called it the TK special because he reversed course so often. I also may have worded this way because I think AEW has become so terribly booked it’s almost shocking to me. And given the response in this very thread, including the comment "I feel like we're watching a different show" with a ton of likes on it, that's not a sentiment shared by everyone, neither is the "Tony Khan Special" being a thing. It being "terribly booked" is very subjective, hell the response Full Gear got here was extremely positive, and personally, I think the bookings been really hitting on all cylinders since we got close to, and are now past Full Gear, now that we're getting past the Punk ripple effect. Have I ever said anything. this thread implying it is a sentiment shared by everyone? Have I told people their opinions are wrong?
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 1, 2022 17:00:41 GMT -5
And given the response in this very thread, including the comment "I feel like we're watching a different show" with a ton of likes on it, that's not a sentiment shared by everyone, neither is the "Tony Khan Special" being a thing. It being "terribly booked" is very subjective, hell the response Full Gear got here was extremely positive, and personally, I think the bookings been really hitting on all cylinders since we got close to, and are now past Full Gear, now that we're getting past the Punk ripple effect. Have I ever said anything. this thread implying it is a sentiment shared by everyone? Have I told people their opinions are wrong? No, and I thank you for that, I just feel like when these baity threads are dropped it's almost expected that people just agree and shit on the product. I'm honestly happy to see actual back and forth discussion regarding how people feel about how certain wrestlers have been used. I feel like if the thread was titled something more reasonable, there wouldn't really be an issue.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 1, 2022 17:02:30 GMT -5
Eddie's still white hot over, MJF mentioned him in a single sentence and the entire crowd chanted his name Miro's had issues with movie shoot timing and House of Black becoming a non entity right when he came back, but he's also still very over and will get momentum right back when he shows up again Darby's been with Sting, everything they've done has been over, and people seem to really love the act, and it's been helping Darby out imo, dudes gonna be a part of Muta's last match, I'm sure he's enjoying this Do they need a feud to sink into? I can agree with that, but it doesn't feel like they've lost anything with the crowds. They are over and I won't take that away from them (not the least being they are talented) but they tend to feel aimless or the sense Tony could get more out of them but doesn't know when to strike while its hot. But "Striking when hot" is subjective. Like who is to say when he strikes, they won't be just as hot as they could have been another time? Eddie certainly seems to have that in him, the others probably do too Like it's ok imo for wrestlers to not always be in a huge title feud. Like the Eddie/Akiyama program was fantastic and is exactly what wrestling is all about to me. Do I wanna see Eddie as world champion? Yeah. But I am not gonna call everything they're doing with these guys completely aimless, it's hitting the right notes for people.
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Dec 1, 2022 17:09:29 GMT -5
Tony Khan is not the world's best booker. AEW is not a perfect company. I think the initial hype for AEW coupled with the general burnout that a lot of people (myself included) had for WWE before AEW started caused a little bit of overhype for AEW, and Tony Khan as a booker in particular, during the initial stages of AEW. Now, 3+ years into the company's life, that shine has worn off a bit and people are starting to, very fairly, criticize a lot of AEW booking. I do think, sometimes, that that criticism is a lot more severe because Meltzer named Tony Khan Booker of the Year, and because so many people put AEW on this pedestal during its formative years.
Where I kind of disagree with the sentiment towards Khan's booking is that he has a "new toy" mentality, and casts guys aside when the new hotness comes in, so to speak. Guys like The Acclaimed, Yuta, Daniel Garcia, Top Flight (Dante in particular), Orange Cassidy, Wardlow, and even Hangman Page and MJF were relative nobodies when AEW first started. They are even at the level of "toys" to be discarded because of AEW's booking. So, that's obviously something being done right, booking wise.
The issue, to me, is that Tony Khan has a tendency to emphasize Japan-style booking that the American wrestling fan is not necessarily conditioned to accept sometimes. Everyone is in a faction. A lot of "storylines" are nothing more than "you have championship that I want, let's fight." There are loads of tournaments all the time. People go off of television for weeks or months at a time after a "tour" of being featured on TV. Those are all things that some wrestling fans like, and others don't, and certainly your mileage may vary with respect to each of them but I do think that there's been enough of a groundswell of criticism of AEW's booking lately that TK needs to consider trying something different in those areas, just to see how it works.
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 1, 2022 17:11:42 GMT -5
Wardlow feels like a much bigger star, even if his feuds have been lackluster.
Hook is still very green so works as a special attraction for now.
FTR I'll give you, but they're such douchenozzles that I don't care too much. Plus I think they're waiting to feud them with Acclaimed.
Garcia...yeah, I got nothing. He's completely been lost in the shuffle.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 1, 2022 17:21:20 GMT -5
Tony Khan is not the world's best booker. AEW is not a perfect company. I think the initial hype for AEW coupled with the general burnout that a lot of people (myself included) had for WWE before AEW started caused a little bit of overhype for AEW, and Tony Khan as a booker in particular, during the initial stages of AEW. Now, 3+ years into the company's life, that shine has worn off a bit and people are starting to, very fairly, criticize a lot of AEW booking. I do think, sometimes, that that criticism is a lot more severe because Meltzer named Tony Khan Booker of the Year, and because so many people put AEW on this pedestal during its formative years. Where I kind of disagree with the sentiment towards Khan's booking is that he has a "new toy" mentality, and casts guys aside when the new hotness comes in, so to speak. Guys like The Acclaimed, Yuta, Daniel Garcia, Top Flight (Dante in particular), Orange Cassidy, Wardlow, and even Hangman Page and MJF were relative nobodies when AEW first started. They are even at the level of "toys" to be discarded because of AEW's booking. So, that's obviously something being done right, booking wise. The issue, to me, is that Tony Khan has a tendency to emphasize Japan-style booking that the American wrestling fan is not necessarily conditioned to accept sometimes. Everyone is in a faction. A lot of "storylines" are nothing more than "you have championship that I want, let's fight." There are loads of tournaments all the time. People go off of television for weeks or months at a time after a "tour" of being featured on TV. Those are all things that some wrestling fans like, and others don't, and certainly your mileage may vary with respect to each of them but I do think that there's been enough of a groundswell of criticism of AEW's booking lately that TK needs to consider trying something different in those areas, just to see how it works. Yeah, that last point's kind of what I was getting at with my post before: personally, I enjoy that style of booking (again, I tend to enjoy puro more than most other wrestling), but it's certainly not what's expected from a prime time weekly multi-hour wrestling show in the US. I'd hate to see too much of it altered since it's what appeals to me, but you can't just expect an audience raised on a completely different diet to completely shift gears, either, so some kinds of concessions will likely end up necessary. That said, I think sometimes we underestimate why "you have a belt, let's fight" stories can work so well; of all the things American audiences are conditioned towards, it's stuff like "this match needs personal stakes" that usually turns me off the most. Like, I don't need a challenger stalking the champion's family or something (though there've been times that's worked, to be fair), and I don't think title matches need a hook like "the challenger broke the champion's favorite collectible mugs!" or something to work - the match itself is what's important, and the story told in the match and the follow-up to the match depicting some kind of positive or negative character growth is what makes it count. Not to say there can't be more personal stakes, obviously (things like straight edge CM Punk torturing Jeff Hardy over his substance abuse worked in its day), but I always felt that, like, Kenny Omega gained so much more from losing a straight-up war to Okada at Wrestle Kingdom 11 than he would have if the two had had some kind of gimmicky backstory for the match. Instead it was about what the match meant to the company as it attempted to expand globally, and what Omega's performance meant for him as a performer in that company in its aftermath, and it ruled.
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