Red Hot to Ice Cold: The Tony Khan Special

[flowercity]

What is with Khan getting a non main event act red hot and then completely abandoning their push/screen time?

Wardlow? Absolutely neutered. Just another guy with muscles now.

Daniel Garcia was part of one of the more interesting (arguably only) storylines they’ve done recently. Now he’s back doing the exact same crap with Yuta for the PURE championship.

HOOK was the focus of a segment of the year candidate when he won the FTW title on Dynamite. How many times has he wrestled on Dynamite since?

FTR were the hottest tag team on the planet, #1 contenders for half the year (more?) and now their crowd reactions have cooled off. The match last night with Dax did not have much heat.

It just seems so backwards. The type of stuff that made me turn on WWE. Like when Cesaro got hot off the Cena US title challenge and they followed it up with nothing. It’s a great way to cut off new talents at the knees.

[chrom]

He got distracted by an Heroic Dog that he promoted to Vice President.

[Deleted]

I'm really hoping that if/when ROH gets its own TV deal that the sheer size of the current roster is suddenly justifiable.

I certainly don't want it to turn into a WWE type of scenario where there's 5 hours of television each week with a gutted roster who has to carry everything, but the amount of talent AEW has mixed with Tony Khan's ADHD booking is leading to a lot of guys being forgotten about until they're suddenly remembered.

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

For those guys, I would say this:

- Wardlow: Is he as over as he was going into the MJF feud? No. But I think that was inevitable. That was a high point that's hard to match. I do think the MJF stuff that weekend hurt him and that sucks. And I do wish he had more fun TNT title defenses ala his matches against Orange and Cage. But I was at Full Gear and he was by far the most over guy in that match and it included two generally over guys in Joe and Hobbs. So he isn't dead in the water. I do think he needs something to really sink his teeth into character wise post Joe.

- Garcia: I loved that storyline but I think the reality is no matter which direction they went, he'd be less over than he was during the build because the tension was in the decision. If he turned face, he'd be a cool guy in a cool group but probably around the level of a Yuta unless Claudio or Bryan were going to take a major backseat for him. He still has stuff to do as a heel and can be the clear #2 in the group. He and Sammy should feud. He also still has a different story to tell with Jericho and them eventually turning on him. And if that happens and he becomes a face, he won't just have this group he can join so that will be more meaningful to me as a story. It reminds me of Zuko in Avatar. He had a crisis and ultimately stayed a bad guy because it was the easier choice but ultimately came around to the good side and it mattered more because he had that struggle.

- HOOK: He's in a weird middle ground where he's protected but they don't want to have him too much more right now because he may still be limited as a performer in his first year. So if you feature him a lot more and still want to protect him, then you're going to need to push him more and actually have him face bigger stars. And you can do that but it seems like they see him as not being fully ready. He was very over when I saw him at Grand Slam though so he's not dead in the water. I do think he needs to take a step forward by Revolution though.

- FTR: They're still pretty over. The thing that happened was the Acclaimed getting really hot and getting the titles and having the FTR/Acclaimed feud is a tough line to walk since it's two hot face acts. I think we're eventually getting there but it has to be on pause for a bit.

[Deleted]

I had a feeling that Tony had plans made in the long term for ROH, AEW, and possibly spin off shows that did not pan out well due to the current issues surrounding Warner/Discovery.

At this point, ROH needs to be its own thing. I really don't care if it gets thrown to a streaming service, it just needs to not occupy AEW time anymore.

[chrom]

Dec 1, 2022 10:29:26 GMT -5 @coolio1234 said:

I had a feeling that Tony had plans made in the long term for ROH, AEW, and possibly spin off shows that did not pan out well due to the current issues surrounding Warner/Discovery.

At this point, ROH needs to be its own thing. I really don't care if it gets thrown to a streaming service, it just needs to not occupy AEW time anymore.

Do away with ROH at this point until it gets a TV slot or they just make Dark into it. It's been 8 months and zero progress on it.

[eJm]

Threads like this sometimes make me wonder if I'm watching a different show from other people.

[flowercity]

Dec 1, 2022 10:28:37 GMT -5 "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik said:

For those guys, I would say this:

- Wardlow: Is he as over as he was going into the MJF feud? No. But I think that was inevitable. That was a high point that's hard to match. I do think the MJF stuff that weekend hurt him and that sucks. And I do wish he had more fun TNT title defenses ala his matches against Orange and Cage. But I was at Full Gear and he was by far the most over guy in that match and it included two generally over guys in Joe and Hobbs. So he isn't dead in the water. I do think he needs something to really sink his teeth into character wise post Joe.

- Garcia: I loved that storyline but I think the reality is no matter which direction they went, he'd be less over than he was during the build because the tension was in the decision. If he turned face, he'd be a cool guy in a cool group but probably around the level of a Yuta unless Claudio or Bryan were going to take a major backseat for him. He still has stuff to do as a heel and can be the clear #2 in the group. He and Sammy should feud. He also still has a different story to tell with Jericho and them eventually turning on him. And if that happens and he becomes a face, he won't just have this group he can join so that will be more meaningful to me as a story. It reminds me of Zuko in Avatar. He had a crisis and ultimately stayed a bad guy because it was the easier choice but ultimately came around to the good side and it mattered more because he had that struggle.

- HOOK: He's in a weird middle ground where he's protected but they don't want to have him too much more right now because he may still be limited as a performer in his first year. So if you feature him a lot more and still want to protect him, then you're going to need to push him more and actually have him face bigger stars. And you can do that but it seems like they see him as not being fully ready. He was very over when I saw him at Grand Slam though so he's not dead in the water. I do think he needs to take a step forward by Revolution though.

- FTR: They're still pretty over. The thing that happened was the Acclaimed getting really hot and getting the titles and having the FTR/Acclaimed feud is a tough line to walk since it's two hot face acts. I think we're eventually getting there but it has to be on pause for a bit.

I won’t argue any point you made, but I would just say, you’ve removed the possibility of following up a hit angle/storyline with another attempt. Tony just completely abandons trying.

[flowercity]

Dec 1, 2022 10:38:45 GMT -5 eJm said:

Threads like this sometimes make me wonder if I'm watching a different show from other people.

Is there anything I said that’s untrue? It’s fine if people don’t mind this booking method but I think it’s pretty objective to say they haven’t done much follow up with those I listed (and others) or those acts are less over than they once were

[Lizuka #BLM]

Dec 1, 2022 10:33:33 GMT -5 chrom said:

Dec 1, 2022 10:29:26 GMT -5 @coolio1234 said:

I had a feeling that Tony had plans made in the long term for ROH, AEW, and possibly spin off shows that did not pan out well due to the current issues surrounding Warner/Discovery.

At this point, ROH needs to be its own thing. I really don't care if it gets thrown to a streaming service, it just needs to not occupy AEW time anymore.

Do away with ROH at this point until it gets a TV slot or they just make Dark into it. It's been 8 months and zero progress on it.

Yeah, it's well past time to either ship ROH to Youtube or put a bullet in it. As it is it's just such a useless, meaningless drain on everything and if it didn't have enough momentum for its own show months ago I don't see what it could possibly do to ever get it at this point because it's a bunch of stuff going absolutely nowhere.

[markymark]

Dec 1, 2022 10:08:05 GMT -5 flowercity said:

What is with Khan getting a non main event act red hot and then completely abandoning their push/screen time?

Wardlow? Absolutely neutered. Just another guy with muscles now.

Daniel Garcia was part of one of the more interesting (arguably only) storylines they’ve done recently. Now he’s back doing the exact same crap with Yuta for the PURE championship.

HOOK was the focus of a segment of the year candidate when he won the FTW title on Dynamite. How many times has he wrestled on Dynamite since?

FTR were the hottest tag team on the planet, #1 contenders for half the year (more?) and now their crowd reactions have cooled off. The match last night with Dax did not have much heat.

It just seems so backwards. The type of stuff that made me turn on WWE. Like when Cesaro got hot off the Cena US title challenge and they followed it up with nothing. It’s a great way to cut off new talents at the knees.

Some of this are talents fault like FTR, part of it because of being fans of the Racket man and how Dax was defending him at Death Before Dishonor  media scrum and now defending Punk antics and comparing it to Sasha

Hook only has 1 year of experience and he is still limited, you want him to become the male Jade?

Garcias case you could assume its because of Regal leaving, having him turn face and join BCC wouldve made no sense.

Wardlow is another one that had a lot of bad luck, from MJF stuff, to Scorpio getting hurt which rushed Wardlow TNT title win besides it has been already discussed about TK weak point being unable come up with proper plan b when his original plans are ruined

[eJm]

Dec 1, 2022 10:42:11 GMT -5 flowercity said:

Dec 1, 2022 10:38:45 GMT -5 eJm said:

Threads like this sometimes make me wonder if I'm watching a different show from other people.

Is there anything I said that’s untrue? It’s fine if people don’t mind this booking method but I think it’s pretty objective to say they haven’t done much follow up with those I listed (and others) or those acts are less over than they once were

I say that mostly because Wardlow's still over (he was the most over in the triple threat by far at FG), FTR are still over but victims of circumstances that honestly, any booker would have taken in TK's shoes, Jackson addressed the HOOK thing better than I could and they're trying to give him more opponents to improve with and Garcia's still one of the main components of one of the bigger angles on the show.

Some plates have to fall for others, if it wasn't those guys it'd be other people. The investment hasn't gone down and you could easily re-heat any of them. Heck, Dax just had a singles match on TV to do that.

[lucas_lee]

Its actually a good question. I dont know myself if I can find a good answer. You would think FTR and others would be on more often.

[chrom]

How did they mess up something so simple as Wardlow so bad? How hard was it to book him like Vader in 92? Instead of looking like a dominant weekly champion, they put him in a tag feud of all things and have him get choked out

[Tiger Millionaire]

I don't think it's a Tony Khan issue as much as a pro wrestling issue. Heating up people is much easier than keeping the heat on.

[eJm]

Dec 1, 2022 11:00:39 GMT -5 Tiger Millionaire said:

I don't think it's a Tony Khan issue as much as a pro wrestling issue. Heating up people is much easier than keeping the heat on.

Pretty much. Heck, it's a ensemble TV issue. Soaps for years needed a revolving cast to make things interesting and tell new stories or else you end up like EastEnders and have Phil Mitchell and Ian Beale involved in everything ever until the heat death of the Solar System.

[Zone Was Wrong]

I still don't see the issues with Wardlow. Dude is constantly in high profile feuds and is one of the most over dudes on a card and has been a fixture in the TNT title scene and still is. Don't get the issues there.

[SneakMan]

I might have dreamed this but didn't Tony say fairly recently that he's intending on a weekly ROH show in early 2023 after Final Battle? If so I imagine most of the roster bloat will soon be less of an issue.

[Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story]

Dec 1, 2022 11:03:29 GMT -5 eJm said:

Dec 1, 2022 11:00:39 GMT -5 Tiger Millionaire said:

I don't think it's a Tony Khan issue as much as a pro wrestling issue. Heating up people is much easier than keeping the heat on.

Pretty much. Heck, it's a ensemble TV issue. Soaps for years needed a revolving cast to make things interesting and tell new stories or else you end up like EastEnders and have Phil Mitchell and Ian Beale involved in everything ever until the heat death of the Solar System.

Or you are like The Walking Dead where you have so many popular characters that you have to do weird group episodes and everybody suffers. That's what AEW feels like to me right now.

I don't think "Red Hot to Ice Cold" is the right way to describe it, but the roster is definitely bloated and Tony has trouble prioritizing guys at times. Somebody like Darby Allin is a great example. 2020/early 2021 Darby Allin felt like a guy on the verge of breaking out into main events. Now, he's kind of stuck playing the hits with Sting. Good position, sure, but a few years ago he seemed like he was going to be one of *the* guys.

I think it's promising that Ricky Starks, Swerve, Ethan Page and The Acclaimed are breaking through, but it's almost like he has so many guys on the verge of making it big that he can't properly focus. Guys like Hangman and MJF are the exception to that, of course.

[eJm]

Dec 1, 2022 11:30:54 GMT -5 SneakMan said:

I might have dreamed this but didn't Tony say fairly recently that he's intending on a weekly ROH show in early 2023 after Final Battle? If so I imagine most of the roster bloat will soon be less of an issue.

He said he's got plans for ROH in 2023 but the show stuff is still something in the works, the vague "good relationship with WBD" stuff you want to say without revealing your hand before a) they give you a show somewhere (potentially TNT/TBS considering how things have been going or HBO Max) or realize you have a TV deal to try and agree at the end of 2023 for 2024 onwards and don't want to mess things up.