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Post by polarbearpete on Dec 1, 2022 11:33:10 GMT -5
I still don't see the issues with Wardlow. Dude is constantly in high profile feuds and is one of the most over dudes on a card and has been a fixture in the TNT title scene and still is. Don't get the issues there. Maybe it’s just my perception but it felt like he went from a featured main event angle with MJF, to being shuffled off to Rampage most weeks to feud with guys like Scorpio, Lethal and a bunch of ROH guys. Maybe he’s been on Dynamite more than I remember but my feeling was he was on Rampage a lot of the time, and certainly not feuding with main event talent.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Dec 1, 2022 11:46:36 GMT -5
I still don't see the issues with Wardlow. Dude is constantly in high profile feuds and is one of the most over dudes on a card and has been a fixture in the TNT title scene and still is. Don't get the issues there. Maybe it’s just my perception but it felt like he went from a featured main event angle with MJF, to being shuffled off to Rampage most weeks to feud with guys like Scorpio, Lethal and a bunch of ROH guys. Maybe he’s been on Dynamite more than I remember but my feeling was he was on Rampage a lot of the time, and certainly not feuding with main event talent. He was on Rampage a few times, but the bulk of his run has been on Dynamite. The issue with somebody like Wardlow is the way he was pushed he either needed to just easily the AEW title after the MJF match or you do what they did, which is cool him off slightly while getting him more in-ring experience. Wardlow will be fine. The MJF drama definitely overshadowed his moment, but he's still a featured player. Yeah, maybe he's not the main event right now, but he's working with vets that will help get him more polish. Dude still has work to do both in-ring and on the mic before he's at the main event level.
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Post by flowercity on Dec 1, 2022 11:49:00 GMT -5
I don't think it's a Tony Khan issue as much as a pro wrestling issue. Heating up people is much easier than keeping the heat on. I think you’re spot on but what bothers me is that Khan seems to not even try. Seriously, how many times has HOOK wrestled on Dynamite since winning the FTW title? People can point to inexperience but isn’t that just a self fulfilling problem? He’s too green to put on tv but we never put him on tv to let him get better. Regardless of his level of ability there’s no excuse to just keeping him off the main show for months. He’s a fresh young wrestler, let him shine. A good booker figures that out.
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
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Post by chrom on Dec 1, 2022 11:52:20 GMT -5
I don't think it's a Tony Khan issue as much as a pro wrestling issue. Heating up people is much easier than keeping the heat on. I think you’re spot on but what bothers me is that Khan seems to not even try. Seriously, how many times has HOOK wrestled on Dynamite since winning the FTW title? People can point to inexperience but isn’t that just a self fulfilling problem? He’s too green to put on tv but we never put him on tv to let him get better. Regardless of his level of ability there’s no excuse to just keeping him off the main show for months. He’s a fresh young wrestler, let him shine. A good booker figures that out. This is what house shows and live events would fix. A talent won't get better if they only able to do TV matches once a month or 50 second squashes on Elevation.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Dec 1, 2022 11:56:19 GMT -5
I don't think it's a Tony Khan issue as much as a pro wrestling issue. Heating up people is much easier than keeping the heat on. I think you’re spot on but what bothers me is that Khan seems to not even try. Seriously, how many times has HOOK wrestled on Dynamite since winning the FTW title? People can point to inexperience but isn’t that just a self fulfilling problem? He’s too green to put on tv but we never put him on tv to let him get better. Regardless of his level of ability there’s no excuse to just keeping him off the main show for months. He’s a fresh young wrestler, let him shine. A good booker figures that out. I think there's some merit to the discussion around Tony balancing acts, but I don't think Hook's a good example. This is his first full year in the business, not just AEW. He's wrestled 16 matches and his overall in-ring time is about an hour according to Cagematch. What Hook needs isn't Dynamite, Hook needs to work the indies and actually get in-ring reps. Putting the kid on Dynamite will only expose his inexperience. He's clearly got an aura, but there's no need to shove him too soon. Keeping him on Rampage is smart, but he needs to go do more stuff on the side where he can to continue to gain experience.
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Post by eJm on Dec 1, 2022 12:00:19 GMT -5
I think you’re spot on but what bothers me is that Khan seems to not even try. Seriously, how many times has HOOK wrestled on Dynamite since winning the FTW title? People can point to inexperience but isn’t that just a self fulfilling problem? He’s too green to put on tv but we never put him on tv to let him get better. Regardless of his level of ability there’s no excuse to just keeping him off the main show for months. He’s a fresh young wrestler, let him shine. A good booker figures that out. I think there's some merit to the discussion around Tony balancing acts, but I don't think Hook's a good example. This is his first full year in the business, not just AEW. He's wrestled 16 matches total and his overall in-ring time is like an hour total according to Cagematch. What Hook needs isn't Dynamite, Hook needs to work the indies and actually get in-ring reps. Putting the kid on Dynamite will only expose his inexperience. He's clearly got an aura, but there's no need to shove him too soon. Keeping him on Rampage is smart, but he needs to go do more stuff on the side where he can to continue to gain experience. That's a good idea, especially affiliates that you know he'll be treated well in. Like, doing things like having him face Moriarty are logical moves but as you said, you can't do it consistently or else a) you'll overexpose him or b) you'll expose how he's not ready for full matches yet.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 1, 2022 12:04:36 GMT -5
Hook is both extremely young and inexperienced. It speaks to his natural talent and training by his dad that he's as good as he is at this point.
The FTW Title is his dad's vanity title and never portrayed as anything higher than the midcard. Rampage and Buy-ins are the perfect place for him as a special attraction that pops the crowd as he hones his craft and gets more reps in the ring.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Dec 1, 2022 12:06:51 GMT -5
I think there's some merit to the discussion around Tony balancing acts, but I don't think Hook's a good example. This is his first full year in the business, not just AEW. He's wrestled 16 matches total and his overall in-ring time is like an hour total according to Cagematch. What Hook needs isn't Dynamite, Hook needs to work the indies and actually get in-ring reps. Putting the kid on Dynamite will only expose his inexperience. He's clearly got an aura, but there's no need to shove him too soon. Keeping him on Rampage is smart, but he needs to go do more stuff on the side where he can to continue to gain experience. That's a good idea, especially affiliates that you know he'll be treated well in. Like, doing things like having him face Moriarty are logical moves but as you said, you can't do it consistently or else a) you'll overexpose him or b) you'll expose how he's not ready for full matches yet. Right, and while the match with Moriarty was fine, I don't remember it being a barnburner or anything. It was arguably his first true TV match that wasn't a squash or near-squash. He got more over than expected, almost as an ironic meme, and they're trying to balance keeping him popular while also not being unfair to him as a performer.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by asuka007 on Dec 1, 2022 12:07:20 GMT -5
He seems to have trouble focusing. Maybe it’s because he’s juggling too many plates these days or something. But it feels like he starts something, then gets distracted by something else and forgets to keep the first thing going.
Or he just DRAGS things out for ages because he cannot think of new stuff.
Regardless, it makes it hard for talent to keep any kind of consistent momentum.
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Post by polarbearpete on Dec 1, 2022 12:11:11 GMT -5
Maybe it’s just my perception but it felt like he went from a featured main event angle with MJF, to being shuffled off to Rampage most weeks to feud with guys like Scorpio, Lethal and a bunch of ROH guys. Maybe he’s been on Dynamite more than I remember but my feeling was he was on Rampage a lot of the time, and certainly not feuding with main event talent. He was on Rampage a few times, but the bulk of his run has been on Dynamite. The issue with somebody like Wardlow is the way he was pushed he either needed to just easily the AEW title after the MJF match or you do what they did, which is cool him off slightly while getting him more in-ring experience. Wardlow will be fine. The MJF drama definitely overshadowed his moment, but he's still a featured player. Yeah, maybe he's not the main event right now, but he's working with vets that will help get him more polish. Dude still has work to do both in-ring and on the mic before he's at the main event level. Seems pretty even since August. 5 matches on Dynamite, 5 matches on Rampage or Battle of the Belts. And the opponents are not high caliber most of the time. Lethal, Nemeth, a 6-man jobber squash, a 6-man at All Out with Lethal &MCMG, Nese, Taven, Daivari, Cage and then tags against Comoroto & QT, Woods and Nese, and Kaun and Liona.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Dec 1, 2022 12:13:41 GMT -5
He was on Rampage a few times, but the bulk of his run has been on Dynamite. The issue with somebody like Wardlow is the way he was pushed he either needed to just easily the AEW title after the MJF match or you do what they did, which is cool him off slightly while getting him more in-ring experience. Wardlow will be fine. The MJF drama definitely overshadowed his moment, but he's still a featured player. Yeah, maybe he's not the main event right now, but he's working with vets that will help get him more polish. Dude still has work to do both in-ring and on the mic before he's at the main event level. Seems pretty even since August. 5 matches on Dynamite, 5 matches on Rampage or Battle of the Belts. And the opponents are not high caliber most of the time. Lethal, Nemeth, a 6-man jobber squash, a 6-man at All Out with Lethal &MCMG, Nese, Taven, Daivari, Cage and then tags against Comoroto & QT, Woods and Nese, and Kaun and Liona. 5 on Dynamite and 5 on Rampage or Battle of the Belts isn't "Rampage most weeks." Like I said, they've cooled him down slightly, but he'll be back in time.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 1, 2022 12:14:53 GMT -5
I still don't see the issues with Wardlow. Dude is constantly in high profile feuds and is one of the most over dudes on a card and has been a fixture in the TNT title scene and still is. Don't get the issues there. Maybe it’s just my perception but it felt like he went from a featured main event angle with MJF, to being shuffled off to Rampage most weeks to feud with guys like Scorpio, Lethal and a bunch of ROH guys. Maybe he’s been on Dynamite more than I remember but my feeling was he was on Rampage a lot of the time, and certainly not feuding with main event talent. I agree with this on Wardlow. Like without question he’s still over but it is a weird space of they presented him “too cool” and in his title reign he was never given anybody of equal value to feud with. He just beat people up and said the same thing. Idk if they expected him to bring people to his level but he somewhat got taken down to theirs. He didn’t get anybody at their hottest so his title reign fell real flat
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by XIII on Dec 1, 2022 12:16:17 GMT -5
It has to be hard to balance who to use every week, once you pencil in all of the guys and girls that absolutely have to be on the show then you’re left with a handful of spots to fit everyone else in. I know that we all think that it’s pretty simple and we could do it, but it not nearly that easy.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 1, 2022 12:17:47 GMT -5
Hook is also a weird case of he is highly protected and does what he does well but it is a one tricky pony show. They eventually have to take the training wheels off but he’s still way over so it is working but you know what you get when you see him
Garcia feels like wasted opportunity. Idk if TK didn’t expect him to get over as much he did but him and Hayter basically had babyface turns set up and while they both won titles, TK didn’t seem to deviate from the story he had in mind which in theory could hurt Garcia in the longer run
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Post by polarbearpete on Dec 1, 2022 12:20:38 GMT -5
Seems pretty even since August. 5 matches on Dynamite, 5 matches on Rampage or Battle of the Belts. And the opponents are not high caliber most of the time. Lethal, Nemeth, a 6-man jobber squash, a 6-man at All Out with Lethal &MCMG, Nese, Taven, Daivari, Cage and then tags against Comoroto & QT, Woods and Nese, and Kaun and Liona. 5 on Dynamite and 5 on Rampage or Battle of the Belts isn't "Rampage most weeks." Like I said, they've cooled him down slightly, but he'll be back in time. Right I said that was my perception from watching every week that he seemed to be featured more on Rampage, and that it might not be accurate. Seemingly it’s been split match wise 50/50 or so, and I definitely remember one or two more Rampage appearances/promos/run-ins that weren’t proper matches. You don’t usually see top singles talent on Rampage as much as Wardlow. Either way, there’s been a definite de-emphasis on him since he was red hot.
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Post by sportatorium on Dec 1, 2022 13:18:28 GMT -5
I think a lot of AEW's booking plans have fallen victim to injuries, departures and suspensions. These things do tend to trickle down too.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
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Post by Chiral on Dec 1, 2022 13:22:56 GMT -5
No booker has ever had a talent cool off before only Tony has managed this
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Dec 1, 2022 13:36:50 GMT -5
Some people can overcome booking not fully capitalizing on their momentum and still be over like Eddie Kingston or FTR or like 2017-18 Finn Balor who always got great reactions despite the feeling that he should be doing more.
Some people are really hurt though if you don't strike when the iron's hot. Daniel Garcia isn't as over as he was a few months ago when he first won the Pure title and people were begging for him to turn on Jericho. Ruby Soho clearly lost overness after losing so many title matches. Athena was beaten so easily by Jade she was pretty much forced to turn heel because you couldn't take her serious as a top face anymore.
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Bang Bang Bart
Ozymandius
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 1, 2022 13:44:10 GMT -5
Some people can overcome booking not fully capitalizing on their momentum and still be over like Eddie Kingston or FTR or like 2017-18 Finn Balor who always got great reactions despite the feeling that he should be doing more. Some people are really hurt though if you don't strike when the iron's hot. Daniel Garcia isn't as over as he was a few months ago when he first won the Pure title and people were begging for him to turn on Jericho. Ruby Soho clearly lost overness after losing so many title matches. Athena was beaten so easily by Jade she was pretty much forced to turn heel because you couldn't take her serious as a top face anymore. The Daniel Garcia example is probably the most egregious. They wasted weeks of compelling character development and an apparent face turn just to stick him with Jericho again.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Dec 1, 2022 13:55:21 GMT -5
The Garcia thing is really just such a gigantic, "What was the freaking point?" He was pretty much rendered completely irrelevant within the JAS when Sammy joined since Sammy's the one pegged as the bigger deal and the longterm project, the Bryan story did a lot to put a spotlight on him and really put him on the map while giving him some much-needed fleshing out of his character, and then the end result was him going right back to the spot he was at before as the useless third-stringer of the JAS except now with a pointless gimmick belt with stupid rules repping a dead company. It accomplished nothing.
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