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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 2, 2022 19:17:58 GMT -5
I can also buy Bret keeping kayfabe on it forever. The main issue with it for me is how he clearly hated working in WCW Martha used it as an example of Vince's state of mind and attitude towards the family in her lawsuit over Owen's death. Zero shot that it would have ended the way it did if her lawyers included a work in her lawsuit. I have always thought it wasn't a work, but this useful to tell them |
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Post by bluebeach25 on Dec 3, 2022 0:07:58 GMT -5
I don't necessarily believe the Savage/Stephanie shit, but SOMETHING monumental had to have happened between Vince McMahon and Randy Savage at some point. Vince let bygones be bygones with damn near everyone he ever worked with. He worked with Hogan again, Bret Hart, Bischoff, Sammartino, Warrior and countless others who screwed him over (in his mind), sued him, helped competition, or all of the above. And yet Randy Savage ended up on his "I hate Forever" list with guys like Ted Turner and Phil Mushnick until the day he died. It had to have been bigger than taking the Slim Jim contract. Vince giving that speech on TV in 1994 about Savage leaving and praising him for all his contributions doesn't seem like something you'd do for someone you have some kind of huge grudge against though. He could have easily carried on like business as usual and not even mentioned it but he went out of his way to give him a nice sendoff. Compared to Hogan who was the biggest star ever and when he left the year before I don't think they even bothered to address his departure on TV. I actually think Savage was finally about to go into the Hall of Fame. If you look at the pattern a lot of guys started doing work with the WWE video games not long before they either returned or went into the hall. I think it happened with like Goldberg/Sting/Bruno/Warrior. Savage did work for the WWE All Stars game in late 2010/early 2011. It wouldn't shock me if after starting to work with him again they were holding off until the next year in his home state of Florida to put him in the Hall of Fame but he obviously died before it could happen. The Rumor always was that Vince found out about later. He gave that Speech but at that point he didn't knew about it, i mean even Lanny never said it didn't happened so it's really weird. I don't think he would have ever been in the HOF had the Rumor been true, but then again who knows there must have been something that pissed Vince of. |
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Dec 3, 2022 3:27:41 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan is a time traveler.
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Post by ElmerFudd on Dec 3, 2022 3:37:19 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels did not throw Marty Jannetty thru the Barber Shop Window he jumped thru the window to escape and Gorilla Monsoon was involved in the cover up.
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Post by THE FVNKER on Dec 3, 2022 10:42:40 GMT -5
My personal favorite is "WCW altered merchandizing UPCs to have everything come up as Hogan because they had no other way to pay his salary." Pretty sure Nash recently confirmed it without confirming it by saying he got a 7 figure payout from Turner when he sued over backpay from merch in exchange for an NDA Jericho also claimed that at one point when you bought his figure (WCW Toybiz era I think) that the receipts would all say Hogan, leading to Hogan getting paid some from the sale.. Except that isn't how retail works. |
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Post by Main Eventer on Dec 3, 2022 10:56:00 GMT -5
In regards to Savage/Vince. I think it was more Savage not wanting to work with Vince again rather than the other way around.
Savage never wanted to be a part time wrestler in WWF, that was a Vince call. Vince thought that Savage was too old to be a full time wrestler anymore, then after Savage leaves Vince starts doing those Ted Turner's Wrassin War Room skits that called Savage old.
With how protective Savage was about his own image, Vince joking about Savage's age probably scorched any good will Savage had for the WWF.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Dec 3, 2022 11:16:22 GMT -5
I attended a New Japan show in NYC and it was delayed a few hours because NY shows require an ambulance on site and someone called the ambulance company and said it was no longer needed. I wouldn't be surprised if it was someone like WWE just trying to f*** with them.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Dec 3, 2022 11:27:19 GMT -5
I’m not sure, but not any that came from Billy Jack Haynes.
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by XIII on Dec 3, 2022 11:37:35 GMT -5
The Macho/Stephanie thing is ridiculous. It’s Macho so it likely boiled down to money somehow and Vince and Macho both being legendarily stubborn and insane old dudes neither wanted to budge and show “weakness”. I’m reasonably certain that this originated when Macho was doing his rap gimmick of beefing with everyone and he said something about HHH and Stephanie(I can’t remember the exact quote) and it snowballed from there. Sadly, if Macho had lived a bit longer they likely would have patched things up, once he was both done with wrestling and wrestling was done with him he was in a much better place.
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Post by Hulkshi Tanahashi on Dec 3, 2022 11:47:17 GMT -5
WCW didn't lose $65 million by themselves. Turner moved some of their expenses from other parts of the corporation to WCW. On the one hand, this makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, I have seen WCW circa 1999 and 2000. They put a lot of stupid shit on TV. So, I can totally buy that they would lose that much money. |
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Post by Feyrhausen on Dec 3, 2022 11:53:02 GMT -5
My personal favorite is "WCW altered merchandizing UPCs to have everything come up as Hogan because they had no other way to pay his salary." Pretty sure Nash recently confirmed it without confirming it by saying he got a 7 figure payout from Turner when he sued over backpay from merch in exchange for an NDA Jericho also claimed that at one point when you bought his figure (WCW Toybiz era I think) that the receipts would all say Hogan, leading to Hogan getting paid some from the sale.. Except that isn't how retail works. Yeah what happens on the retail level has no effect on Jerichos merch bonus. The toy company produces, packs, and ships the figures in cases with a certain amount of each figure per case. Say 1 Jericho, 1 Benoit, and 2 Hogans for a case of 4. The store has to put those UPCs in their system and the person doing data just put them all under Hogan being lazy. The toy company would never know what was sold. But if they shipped 10,000 cases Jericho would get paid for 10,000 figures. |
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by XIII on Dec 3, 2022 11:58:25 GMT -5
WCW didn't lose $65 million by themselves. Turner moved some of their expenses from other parts of the corporation to WCW. On the one hand, this makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, I have seen WCW circa 1999 and 2000. They put a lot of stupid shit on TV. So, I can totally buy that they would lose that much money. How much did they sink into “Ready To Rumble” alone? Who even paid to make that movie Turner or WCW? |
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Post by Feyrhausen on Dec 3, 2022 11:59:21 GMT -5
In regards to Savage/Vince. I think it was more Savage not wanting to work with Vince again rather than the other way around. Savage never wanted to be a part time wrestler in WWF, that was a Vince call. Vince thought that Savage was too old to be a full time wrestler anymore, then after Savage leaves Vince starts doing those Ted Turner's Wrassin War Room skits that called Savage old. With how protective Savage was about his own image, Vince joking about Savage's age probably scorched any good will Savage had for the WWF. Writers and producers did say that Savage was a no go subject with Vince so there was some bad blood on his side too. What always sounded most likely to me was a combination of money and hurt feelings. Vince wanted Savage to be his part time Babe Ruth esque figure. Savage wanted to wrestle full time. So he left to go to WCW. Vince had both hurt feelings as he felt he and Savage were close, plus Savage took Slim Jim with him. Then when WCW almost put him out of business it felt really personal to Vince. Hogan was business but Savage was personal. Then when Vince might have been cooling off Liz died and that just brought back the bad feelings. On Savages side I think you are right on. |
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thirteen3
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Post by thirteen3 on Dec 3, 2022 12:09:36 GMT -5
AEW created the TBS title for Brandi Rhodes to win so the actual competent women wrestlers wouldn't have to job to her.
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Post by Hypnosis on Dec 3, 2022 12:11:55 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan is a time traveler.  I believe it. |
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 3, 2022 12:16:37 GMT -5
Writers and producers did say that Savage was a no go subject with Vince so there was some bad blood on his side too. What always sounded most likely to me was a combination of money and hurt feelings. Vince wanted Savage to be his part time Babe Ruth esque figure. Savage wanted to wrestle full time. So he left to go to WCW. Vince had both hurt feelings as he felt he and Savage were close, plus Savage took Slim Jim with him. Then when WCW almost put him out of business it felt really personal to Vince. Hogan was business but Savage was personal. Then when Vince might have been cooling off Liz died and that just brought back the bad feelings. On Savages side I think you are right on. This is the most accurate I believe. There are a few guys who Vince just seemed to love and would find spots for them despite age being an obstacle. I think he really liked Mr. Perfect and Billy Graham but loved Macho, Andre and Roddy the most. All those guys he tried and tried to find spots for when age or injuries took them out of the match scene. Macho was probably the most capable of putting on really good matches. Maybe Perfect second but he was gone for a while. Vince was hurt simply when Andre did the WCW tribute show in late 92 and that was just one show. Macho left WWF completely, took the endorsement deal and became a big star in WCW. Vince had Bam Bam for a Slim Jim spokesperson. LOL. I don't think that lasted long. I also have no doubt Vince loved Elizabeth as a person. Like Bret said "she was a woman too good for the wrestling business" and despite how nuts Vince can be sometimes I'm sure he knew that. |
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Dec 3, 2022 12:24:05 GMT -5
Paul Heyman was tired of running ECW and knew it was always going to be a huge money pit so he was actually quite happy when it ended and he got the cushy WWE job.
I think most people believe this one but Mark Henry was signed to a huge money 10 year deal and Vince booked him in so many ridiculous angles from 1998-2000 because he was hoping Henry would quit and save the company millions of dollars.
People talk about The Elite and CM Punk but I think Chris Jericho is the biggest backstage leaker/political guy in AEW.
I don't believe the sexual relationship part of it but I fully believe in some kind of midlife crisis way Vince was infatuated with HBK in the mid 90s and living vicariously through this young guy who was a rebel and broke all the rules and that's why despite him not really being a big draw at the time Vince still let him get away with all the stuff he did.
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Milkman Norm
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Post by Milkman Norm on Dec 3, 2022 12:35:00 GMT -5
I'm gonna get political! Ray Gunkel was planning to make a move to leave the NWA before his untimely death. Ann just went ahead with the plan.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Dec 3, 2022 13:04:02 GMT -5
Vince giving that speech on TV in 1994 about Savage leaving and praising him for all his contributions doesn't seem like something you'd do for someone you have some kind of huge grudge against though. He could have easily carried on like business as usual and not even mentioned it but he went out of his way to give him a nice sendoff. Compared to Hogan who was the biggest star ever and when he left the year before I don't think they even bothered to address his departure on TV. I actually think Savage was finally about to go into the Hall of Fame. If you look at the pattern a lot of guys started doing work with the WWE video games not long before they either returned or went into the hall. I think it happened with like Goldberg/Sting/Bruno/Warrior. Savage did work for the WWE All Stars game in late 2010/early 2011. It wouldn't shock me if after starting to work with him again they were holding off until the next year in his home state of Florida to put him in the Hall of Fame but he obviously died before it could happen. The Rumor always was that Vince found out about later. He gave that Speech but at that point he didn't knew about it, i mean even Lanny never said it didn't happened so it's really weird. I don't think he would have ever been in the HOF had the Rumor been true, but then again who knows there must have been something that pissed Vince of. My hold thing is if it DIDN'T happen and as wildly spread this story or conspiracy this as been for years. You think Stephanie would said it didn't happen at some point. With the millions of media interviews she has done. His own brother also kicking around the question instead of a flat out no. That what making me lean over to the did happen side and Vince found out later. |
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Post by Feyrhausen on Dec 3, 2022 13:34:45 GMT -5
The Rumor always was that Vince found out about later. He gave that Speech but at that point he didn't knew about it, i mean even Lanny never said it didn't happened so it's really weird. I don't think he would have ever been in the HOF had the Rumor been true, but then again who knows there must have been something that pissed Vince of. My hold thing is if it DIDN'T happen and as wildly spread this story or conspiracy this as been for years. You think Stephanie would said it didn't happen at some point. With the millions of media interviews she has done. His own brother also kicking around the question instead of a flat out no. That what making me lean over to the did happen side and Vince found out later. Or they are adults who dont want to comment on dirty internet rumors. In any of those millions of media interviews has anyone ever directly asked whether it happened? If not would you expect her to bring it up to deny it? No she was a vice president (or whatever) at a billion dollar company. She could care less about some gossip that even the “dirtrags” generally dont even give credence to. |
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