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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 9, 2023 15:07:28 GMT -5
Okay, everyone. Time to move on. This is the final word on the matter. Now, if we need to at least try to shift things into a positive direction, let's talk about Survivor Series 1998. Still weird to me that Vince Russo isn’t just constantly bragging about this one because it’s the most highly regarded thing he’s done. It’d be like if Steven Spielberg ignored Jaws and bragged about directing Ready Player One. That's the part about Russo that sticks out to me the most; he rarely clings to so much of the well received stuff he's done that stands as actually worthwhile, to instead focus on engaging in bizarro apologetics for his absolute worst ideas. In an industry where so many people are happy to rest on their laurels and coast, he seems determined not to be known as the guy who made Steve Austin, but as the guy whose television was too smart for you to understand and here's why 2003 TNA was actually a really intellectual and put-together show. It's I guess some kind of ambition, but unbelievably misplaced, and it does nothing to help him not be a heavily maligned parasite whose worst flaws are constantly front and center. Like he feels entitled to some higher credit than he's actually due and can't be happy with settling for the shit people actually liked being his legacy.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jan 9, 2023 15:12:31 GMT -5
Still weird to me that Vince Russo isn’t just constantly bragging about this one because it’s the most highly regarded thing he’s done. It’d be like if Steven Spielberg ignored Jaws and bragged about directing Ready Player One. That's the part about Russo that sticks out to me the most; he rarely clings to so much of the well received stuff he's done that stands as actually worthwhile, to instead focus on engaging in bizarro apologetics for his absolute worst ideas. In an industry where so many people are happy to rest on their laurels and coast, he seems determined not to be known as the guy who made Steve Austin, but as the guy whose television was too smart for you to understand and here's why 2003 TNA was actually a really intellectual and put-together show. It's I guess some kind of ambition, but unbelievably misplaced, and it does nothing to help him not be a heavily maligned parasite whose worst flaws are constantly front and center. Like he feels entitled to some higher credit than he's actually due and can't be happy with settling for the shit people actually liked being his legacy. Really makes you wonder 1. if he straight up didn't have much to do with the good stuff, or 2. if talking about the good stuff is so intertwined with what really works in wrestling that it draws attention to what's wrong with everything he's done since.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jan 9, 2023 15:15:12 GMT -5
Still weird to me that Vince Russo isn’t just constantly bragging about this one because it’s the most highly regarded thing he’s done. It’d be like if Steven Spielberg ignored Jaws and bragged about directing Ready Player One. That's the part about Russo that sticks out to me the most; he rarely clings to so much of the well received stuff he's done that stands as actually worthwhile, to instead focus on engaging in bizarro apologetics for his absolute worst ideas. In an industry where so many people are happy to rest on their laurels and coast, he seems determined not to be known as the guy who made Steve Austin, but as the guy whose television was too smart for you to understand and here's why 2003 TNA was actually a really intellectual and put-together show. It's I guess some kind of ambition, but unbelievably misplaced, and it does nothing to help him not be a heavily maligned parasite whose worst flaws are constantly front and center. Like he feels entitled to some higher credit than he's actually due and can't be happy with settling for the shit people actually liked being his legacy. I think when it comes to Rock and Austin who he occasionalyl brings up he made...you ask him what he did for them and basically all he really has is "he let them be themselves" which isn't really some grand genius writing move.
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 9, 2023 15:26:07 GMT -5
Okay, everyone. Time to move on. This is the final word on the matter. Now, if we need to at least try to shift things into a positive direction, let's talk about Survivor Series 1998. Gladly. Survivor Series 1998 was his Mona Lisa
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 9, 2023 15:34:10 GMT -5
That's the part about Russo that sticks out to me the most; he rarely clings to so much of the well received stuff he's done that stands as actually worthwhile, to instead focus on engaging in bizarro apologetics for his absolute worst ideas. In an industry where so many people are happy to rest on their laurels and coast, he seems determined not to be known as the guy who made Steve Austin, but as the guy whose television was too smart for you to understand and here's why 2003 TNA was actually a really intellectual and put-together show. It's I guess some kind of ambition, but unbelievably misplaced, and it does nothing to help him not be a heavily maligned parasite whose worst flaws are constantly front and center. Like he feels entitled to some higher credit than he's actually due and can't be happy with settling for the shit people actually liked being his legacy. Really makes you wonder 1. if he straight up didn't have much to do with the good stuff, or 2. if talking about the good stuff is so intertwined with what really works in wrestling that it draws attention to what's wrong with everything he's done since. I'm sure he gets an outsized amount of credit for those guys and that enough other voices contributed to a lot of what worked that if he actually went into detail about it, it would just expose how much he doesn't actually know and unravel the entire thing. Any quasi competent writer can tell you why a story works and that's a power I do not believe Russo possesses even about what is ostensibly his own material. It's why his defenses of his own stuff sound so malformed and detached from f***ing anything. Like Platypus mentioned with him 'making Austin and Rock by letting them be themselves', the vagueness is his only fall back.
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Post by darbus alan on Jan 9, 2023 15:40:46 GMT -5
Hell, even in 1998, Russo came up the godawful Brawl For All. That was all his baby and one of the single most idiotic things to take place in a wrestling ring.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 9, 2023 15:56:15 GMT -5
Like, if anything, Brian Gerwitz had more to do with The Rock than Russo did and he built such a connection, Gerwitz now works for The Rock.
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XIII
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Post by XIII on Jan 9, 2023 16:00:08 GMT -5
Like, if anything, Brian Gerwitz had more to do with The Rock than Russo did and he built such a connection, Gerwitz now works for The Rock. I kind of wonder what the Rock has to say about Russo. He doesn’t really badmouth anyone so it would be an interesting question.
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Post by MrElijah on Jan 9, 2023 17:20:59 GMT -5
I feel that "Pinata on a pole"/"Mexicans and Japanese won't get over here" is to "No one wants to just see flippy matches with no story" as "You people don't get to be world champion" is to "Hunter meant WCW guys." Just a hunch. Russo is a f***ing idiot for saying that because in the NWA in 1989, Great Muta got over to a point, booking actually thought about turning him face! And he never spoke!
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Post by MrElijah on Jan 9, 2023 17:24:15 GMT -5
Hell, even in 1998, Russo came up the godawful Brawl For All. That was all his baby and one of the single most idiotic things to take place in a wrestling ring. Like I've said: Brawl for All is Russo after watching UFC 1 but booking Pancrase while drunk.
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XIII
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Post by XIII on Jan 9, 2023 17:28:37 GMT -5
Brawl For All is funny as hell because JR and whoever else actually thought that Dr. Death who didn’t have any legit amateur wrestling experience in the last 20 years or any real combat sports experience ever and about a million miles and injuries by that point was going to roll in there and whoop everyone’s ass. Brawl For All is one of the biggest failures of all time. Thanks Russo and company. lol
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 9, 2023 17:33:21 GMT -5
Like, if anything, Brian Gerwitz had more to do with The Rock than Russo did and he built such a connection, Gerwitz now works for The Rock. Agreed, along with Pat Patterson being a Rock mentor.
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Post by Chiral on Jan 9, 2023 17:44:27 GMT -5
Me checking Those pages of this thread like
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jan 9, 2023 20:30:17 GMT -5
I don't think people bash nearly enough on Russo for his weird flirtations with making himself a wrestler. There was him winning the WCW title from Booker and then vacating it and never having a match in WCW again, that's dumb as hell, but what really gets overlooked is that Russo only lost one match ever, his last one in TNA, and even then AJ Styles is the one who took the pin.
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Post by Ganon83 on Jan 9, 2023 22:57:12 GMT -5
Like, if anything, Brian Gerwitz had more to do with The Rock than Russo did and he built such a connection, Gerwitz now works for The Rock. I kind of wonder what the Rock has to say about Russo. He doesn’t really badmouth anyone so it would be an interesting question. "Who?"
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Post by wildojinx on Jan 10, 2023 9:40:21 GMT -5
There were plenty of matches with no story during Russo's run. Summerslam 98 is one of the best shows of the Attitude era, but I dont remember any of the build for D-lo/Val for example.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jan 10, 2023 10:14:12 GMT -5
I bash Russo for the fact that no one could figure out if he was "The Powers That Be" or "The Powers To Be" in WCW.
Drove me nuts.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jan 10, 2023 10:17:18 GMT -5
Having grown up around narcissists (and having watched Dr. Phil once), one consistent aspect of them is that NOTHING is their fault.
Russo defending all of his horrible ideas makes me wonder about him.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 10, 2023 11:13:22 GMT -5
There were plenty of matches with no story during Russo's run. Summerslam 98 is one of the best shows of the Attitude era, but I dont remember any of the build for D-lo/Val for example. And there was nothing wrong with that because DLo and Val were popular and, from what I remember of the match, it led to stuff down the road for both of them.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jan 10, 2023 14:58:37 GMT -5
Brawl For All is funny as hell because JR and whoever else actually thought that Dr. Death who didn’t have any legit amateur wrestling experience in the last 20 years or any real combat sports experience ever and about a million miles and injuries by that point was going to roll in there and whoop everyone’s ass. Brawl For All is one of the biggest failures of all time. Thanks Russo and company. lol What gets me is that even if it had gone as they hoped and Doc steamrolled everyone, how does that set him up for a main event run with Austin? Everyone who was in the thing was lower card guys who weren’t doing anything of any importance. That’s why they agreed to do it in the first place, it was a spot on TV in something that was getting weeks of airtime. So he would have beaten a bunch of guys that no one saw as contenders with nothing but, “Hey, but this time it was real!,” to make it special. Just start by having him squash those guys in actual matches, then run roughshod over a few guys the fans gave a shit about, then see if you can steal a PPV main event. I’m a big fan of Doc, but it was the wrong era and the miles had piled up due to the Japanese style.
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