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Post by An Dog On An Skateboard on Dec 20, 2022 8:14:39 GMT -5
I think that’s a good point, but I also think telling the talent to “eat shit” for making a choice for their family is why people responded like they did. There's a difference in expressing disappointment and saying what that person said in this topic Of course, and comments like that should be called out, but comments like "God forbid they make money" - which I see thrown around constantly when people react negatively to a wrestler signing with WWE, not necessarily on here - aren't really helpful either, they just stoke ill feeling.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 20, 2022 8:18:00 GMT -5
Somewhat surprised Bronson came back especially with New Japan launching a promotion in Australia/New Zealand but Hunter has been after him for awhile. But nobody was saying that ladder match. The crowd was dead. I get Dexter had a following in NXT but this whole run since he got rehired is really exposing his limits. I know there are rumors that Triple H has been underwhelmed by some of the resignings but I think it's more of a case of him overeating where some guys were in ring This might be me as an outsider looking in rather than watching week by week but I never get the sense that HHH knows where people fit right now. Gargano and Dexter having an angle together is fine, they have history, but the whole Miz thing feels like the wrong way to go for either of them, especially for Gargano whose character was a heart and soul type, willing to fight until the end. It’s the same with Yim being with the Good Brothers or even Reed with Miz to an extent, nobody feels like a good fit for where they are. Maybe it’s an introduction towards what they’ll be actually doing after WrestleMania next year or HHH is filling out his roster before the real plans happen but that’s how it seems like to me. It was easier with NXT because the spots that he wanted to put these guys in, they were available all the time because of the regular churn of talent. Main roster is the endgame. The spots just aren’t there at the moment because they’re filled with more established and tenured talent (most of whom now came up through that system), and a lot of them haven’t truly gotten their own big runs yet. So this is probably why you’re seeing a lot more people being paired up in teams and stables, to get these people at least visible on TV on a regular basis. This is why I’m always like “Who’s allowed to lose? Who do you move down to allow someone to move up?”. Because you can’t create that same NXT churn on the main roster. There is no next stage, the next stage is out the door, and hope that AEW might come calling.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Dec 20, 2022 8:22:03 GMT -5
This might be me as an outsider looking in rather than watching week by week but I never get the sense that HHH knows where people fit right now. Gargano and Dexter having an angle together is fine, they have history, but the whole Miz thing feels like the wrong way to go for either of them, especially for Gargano whose character was a heart and soul type, willing to fight until the end. It’s the same with Yim being with the Good Brothers or even Reed with Miz to an extent, nobody feels like a good fit for where they are. Maybe it’s an introduction towards what they’ll be actually doing after WrestleMania next year or HHH is filling out his roster before the real plans happen but that’s how it seems like to me. It was easier with NXT because the spots that he wanted to put these guys in, they were available all the time because of the regular churn of talent. Main roster is the endgame. The spots just aren’t there at the moment because they’re filled with more established and tenured talent (most of whom now came up through that system), and a lot of them haven’t truly gotten their own big runs yet. So this is probably why you’re seeing a lot more people being paired up in teams and stables, to get these people at least visible on TV on a regular basis. This is why I’m always like “Who’s allowed to lose? Who do you move down to allow someone to move up?”. Because you can’t create that same NXT churn on the main roster. There is no next stage, the next stage is out the door, and hope that AEW might come calling. Those are fair points. I will also add that, from my perspective, it adds more clog to a system that doesn’t really need it. Because right now, doesn’t seem like they have much room for NXT callups that might really need it. If you’re trying to establish these former releases for slots to eventually give them more prominent ones, do you just do the same thing with people like Bron, Roxanne, Indi etc when they’re ready?
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 20, 2022 8:28:42 GMT -5
Somewhat surprised Bronson came back especially with New Japan launching a promotion in Australia/New Zealand but Hunter has been after him for awhile. But nobody was saying that ladder match. The crowd was dead. I get Dexter had a following in NXT but this whole run since he got rehired is really exposing his limits. I know there are rumors that Triple H has been underwhelmed by some of the resignings but I think it's more of a case of him overeating where some guys were in ring This might be me as an outsider looking in rather than watching week by week but I never get the sense that HHH knows where people fit right now. Gargano and Dexter having an angle together is fine, they have history, but the whole Miz thing feels like the wrong way to go for either of them, especially for Gargano whose character was a heart and soul type, willing to fight until the end. It’s the same with Yim being with the Good Brothers or even Reed with Miz to an extent, nobody feels like a good fit for where they are. Maybe it’s an introduction towards what they’ll be actually doing after WrestleMania next year or HHH is filling out his roster before the real plans happen but that’s how it seems like to me. With Miz he's the guy you pair people with to get over. So I understand why Dexter was paired with him in a feud. I just think the angle isn't working... but I'm also pretty convinced the original idea was Dexter vs AJ and they changed for whatever reason. But I'd agree that not much fits and that's why I say Trips overestimated where fans viewed many of the talent
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Dec 20, 2022 8:29:37 GMT -5
Somewhat surprised Bronson came back especially with New Japan launching a promotion in Australia/New Zealand but Hunter has been after him for awhile. But nobody was saying that ladder match. The crowd was dead. I get Dexter had a following in NXT but this whole run since he got rehired is really exposing his limits. I know there are rumors that Triple H has been underwhelmed by some of the resignings but I think it's more of a case of him overeating where some guys were in ring This might be me as an outsider looking in rather than watching week by week but I never get the sense that HHH knows where people fit right now. Gargano and Dexter having an angle together is fine, they have history, but the whole Miz thing feels like the wrong way to go for either of them, especially for Gargano whose character was a heart and soul type, willing to fight until the end.It’s the same with Yim being with the Good Brothers or even Reed with Miz to an extent, nobody feels like a good fit for where they are. Maybe it’s an introduction towards what they’ll be actually doing after WrestleMania next year or HHH is filling out his roster before the real plans happen but that’s how it seems like to me. Well damn does that apt description make me want to see Gargano vs Gunther
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Post by polarbearpete on Dec 20, 2022 8:29:46 GMT -5
Hard to be mad at someone for wanting to be able to stay in America too. 🤷🏻♂️ I mean, dude's Australian. Does he have any special reason to want to be in the US besides his current job? Significant other or he put down roots or something?
I wonder how big the difference in pay is between NJPW and WWE because I can't imagine there's a whole lot of difference for someone of Bronson's level when he was just a NXT guy beforehand and getting a fairly decent push in NJPW (they love gaijin monsters after all). Unless Triple H is convincing Nick Khan to throw the big bucks at everyone who was budget cut to come back even if they weren't high on the previous pay tier.
The minimum anyone on the main roster makes is $250,000
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 20, 2022 8:32:43 GMT -5
It was easier with NXT because the spots that he wanted to put these guys in, they were available all the time because of the regular churn of talent. Main roster is the endgame. The spots just aren’t there at the moment because they’re filled with more established and tenured talent (most of whom now came up through that system), and a lot of them haven’t truly gotten their own big runs yet. So this is probably why you’re seeing a lot more people being paired up in teams and stables, to get these people at least visible on TV on a regular basis. This is why I’m always like “Who’s allowed to lose? Who do you move down to allow someone to move up?”. Because you can’t create that same NXT churn on the main roster. There is no next stage, the next stage is out the door, and hope that AEW might come calling. Those are fair points. I will also add that, from my perspective, it adds more clog to a system that doesn’t really need it. Because right now, doesn’t seem like they have much room for NXT callups that might really need it. If you’re trying to establish these former releases for slots to eventually give them more prominent ones, do you just do the same thing with people like Bron, Roxanne, Indi etc when they’re ready? Thankfully that’s not my problem to solve. This’d be a lot easier if everyone was more receptive to roster rotation, and talents cycling in and out once an active storyline starts or ends. Both promotions and fans alike. I mean, AEW have tried, but even they both end up with talents who are on Dynamite almost every week without fail, and end up with talents off of TV entirely for months at a time without explanation. And fans, they’re always going to have their favourites that they can’t get enough of. One week off of TV without explanation gets them in a cold sweat, let alone weeks or months. There’s no perfect solution to this. The easy answer would’ve been “Don’t rehire these people”, but they shouldn’t have even BEEN fired in the first place.
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Post by polarbearpete on Dec 20, 2022 8:33:46 GMT -5
I've got to say, I never liked this argument about making money whenever someone signs a WWE contract, because he was probably making decent money in Japan and would have done down the line too. He's got his reasons for signing the contract and none of us can say they're the wrong ones, but this idea that WWE is the only place in the world to get paid for wrestling just isn't accurate, and it's strange to me that viewers/fans toe the company line so much. I think it's OK to be disappointed as a viewer if a wrestler signs with a company you don't want to watch, or where you think they aren't going to be as enjoyable to watch, it's a pretty normal reaction as a viewer. It's fine to be happy with it too, but I think it's a bit naughty to shame people who aren't. Disappointed makes sense, yes. Telling the guy to eat shit is I think taking things a little too personally.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Dec 20, 2022 8:34:14 GMT -5
It was easier with NXT because the spots that he wanted to put these guys in, they were available all the time because of the regular churn of talent. Main roster is the endgame. The spots just aren’t there at the moment because they’re filled with more established and tenured talent (most of whom now came up through that system), and a lot of them haven’t truly gotten their own big runs yet. So this is probably why you’re seeing a lot more people being paired up in teams and stables, to get these people at least visible on TV on a regular basis. This is why I’m always like “Who’s allowed to lose? Who do you move down to allow someone to move up?”. Because you can’t create that same NXT churn on the main roster. There is no next stage, the next stage is out the door, and hope that AEW might come calling. Those are fair points. I will also add that, from my perspective, it adds more clog to a system that doesn’t really need it. Because right now, doesn’t seem like they have much room for NXT callups that might really need it. If you’re trying to establish these former releases for slots to eventually give them more prominent ones, do you just do the same thing with people like Bron, Roxanne, Indi etc when they’re ready? I don’t think it’s that big of a problem, honestly. RAW is a three hour show. Smackdown does a good job of cycling people in and out on a weekly basis. And those particular examples are people they will find spots for as they either have a very obvious direction (Indi) or are the next top babyfaces in the company (Bron and Roxanne). There are a few top guys in their 40s that are probably nearing the end of their full time runs - AJ, Rey, Lashley, heck, even Ziggler - where that will open up some spots.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Dec 20, 2022 8:38:16 GMT -5
With Miz he's the guy you pair people with to get over. So I understand why Dexter was paired with him in a feud. I just think the angle isn't working... but I'm also pretty convinced the original idea was Dexter vs AJ and they changed for whatever reason. But I'd agree that not much fits and that's why I say Trips overestimated where fans viewed many of the talent Yeah, I think there would have been more chances if you did something to build up those establishing pieces instead of springing them on an audience who likely only really saw them in 2019 or NXT commercials. Well damn does that apt description make me want to see Gargano vs Gunther Exactly. You can still do that but it feels like a wasted opportunity to not try and establish that from the off.
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Post by SneakMan on Dec 20, 2022 9:39:18 GMT -5
Jonah went from beating Okada in the G1 to being The Miz's bodyguard. Paycheck aside, that's an insane downgrade.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2022 10:47:24 GMT -5
Somewhat surprised Bronson came back especially with New Japan launching a promotion in Australia/New Zealand but Hunter has been after him for awhile. But nobody was saying that ladder match. The crowd was dead. I get Dexter had a following in NXT but this whole run since he got rehired is really exposing his limits. I know there are rumors that Triple H has been underwhelmed by some of the resignings but I think it's more of a case of him overeating where some guys were in ring I'm going to stop you there about Lumis and the NXT following cuz you could say that for most NXT talent. They have an audience that is disconnected from the larger WWE crowd that does not pay attention to the sheets or have likely never visited an independent show, so we have seen time and time again the struggle for NXT wrestlers to find their niche in the main roster. That said, I know that Lumis is extremely limited which was what made a lot of his TNA stuff tedious to go back to, but he has been saddled with the Miz for how long now? 5 months? And a good chunk of it was around Miz's alleged giant scrotum. Even so, that was one of the worst ladder matches in that company, where people were only popping for weapons due to the weapons being used.
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Dub H
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Captain Pixel: the Game Master
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Post by Dub H on Dec 20, 2022 11:23:10 GMT -5
I know you gotta look for yourself but I would feel pretty bad if they gave me a big push and win over Okada just to bail
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Dec 20, 2022 11:25:49 GMT -5
I’d bet it was more about the travel. Just easier to be in the states than traveling abroad constantly
I hope they don’t bring back his tron graphics where he’s destroying skyscrapers. Dudes like 5’9. Stop it.
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Post by Rudy Gobert Weather Machine on Dec 20, 2022 11:26:22 GMT -5
In New York I Jonah Rock, hide it in my sock
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 20, 2022 11:44:17 GMT -5
Somewhat surprised Bronson came back especially with New Japan launching a promotion in Australia/New Zealand but Hunter has been after him for awhile. But nobody was saying that ladder match. The crowd was dead. I get Dexter had a following in NXT but this whole run since he got rehired is really exposing his limits. I know there are rumors that Triple H has been underwhelmed by some of the resignings but I think it's more of a case of him overeating where some guys were in ring I'm going to stop you there about Lumis and the NXT following cuz you could say that for most NXT talent. They have an audience that is disconnected from the larger WWE crowd that does not pay attention to the sheets or have likely never visited an independent show, so we have seen time and time again the struggle for NXT wrestlers to find their niche in the main roster. That said, I know that Lumis is extremely limited which was what made a lot of his TNA stuff tedious to go back to, but he has been saddled with the Miz for how long now? 5 months? And a good chunk of it was around Miz's alleged giant scrotum. Even so, that was one of the worst ladder matches in that company, where people were only popping for weapons due to the weapons being used. Fair point, and it does kind of go back to one (valid) complaint on NXT being that they weren't getting people ready for the main roster like they were at its peak. And even as Sam Shaw, Dexter has always been rather... limited in ring. I think his initial month did get some buzz for him but he's the type of guy who needs a ring general in there with him... like Roddy or Gargano in NXT
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Dec 20, 2022 11:55:00 GMT -5
Anyone know the particulars of JONAH s NJOW contract? Was it a per appearance deal? If it is I can imagine the airfare and travel wasn't worth the money he was making. While this is a downgrade at least he's happy
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2022 11:58:18 GMT -5
Lumis is a character.
He needs a constant stream of storytelling to keep him interesting because that is what largely got him over in NXT...it damn sure was not his wrestling which he is perfectly fine at but his bread and butter is character work , vingettes etc.
It is difficult to pull it off with not only larger but weekly different audiences who may or may not like his schtick or even understand it.
But wrestling long matches like he did lastnight is not to his favor...or maybe it was because the Miz is also not someone that should be in a 1 on 1 ladder match as his ability for anti-gravity everything is almost on par with Becky.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 20, 2022 12:05:43 GMT -5
Anyone know the particulars of JONAH s NJOW contract? Was it a per appearance deal? If it is I can imagine the airfare and travel wasn't worth the money he was making. While this is a downgrade at least he's happy I THINK it was initially a 1 year deal but he then went to per appearance
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Post by Instant Classic on Dec 20, 2022 12:06:53 GMT -5
These redebuts are getting too much. Put some hype around a return with vignettes.
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