chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,273
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Post by chazraps on Feb 28, 2023 16:18:39 GMT -5
I saw the Chavo stuff earlier. If he deleted it all maybe he really did have a come to Jesus moment and someone on Twitter finally got through to him. He was adamantly denying what he did to Miz wasn't hazing, and in his going back and forth I think he may have realized what it actually was.
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Post by Rudy Gobert Weather Machine on Feb 28, 2023 16:18:56 GMT -5
Eh, Kennedy not very good Masters is a viable choice Carlito had his own issues Umaga was up to some f***ed up stuff Bashams 🤷🏻♂️ Hassan outside factors Palmer don’t remember this dude at all really Not to entirely discredit your point but those examples aren’t great either. Didn't Umaga also try to sexually assault someone? He was not a good person.
Kennedy was sloppy as hell and he never really did anything beyond having a catchphrase. His run in TNA/Impact was f***ing atrocious on top of that. He had so many face and heel turns in a short time period, it made Big Show's alignment look stable by comparison.
Palmer was a "network representative" or some shit who basically tried to control how Smackdown ran for a brief period. I don't think he was ever considered a hot talent. Doesn't justify what happened to him, but I don't think he ever had a high ceiling.
Hassan was less locker room and more godawful booking. Having a man of 100% Italian descent play an Arab American who leaned into the absolute worst racist and Islamophobic tropes at that time was... a choice. Though he's apparently a principal at a junior high school now, so at least his life took a nice upswing after wrestling.
Palmer Cannon is such a weird case because even tiny young me knew this shit wasn't going anywhere but WWE clearly wanted him to be something cause WHAT'S PALMER CANNON GONNA DO NEXT was like a mini-hook to watch Smackdown for weeks and they did not miss a single chance to put dude's Beautiful Squidward self on screen to meddle with something. No clue why TNA had such an easy time hooking me in late 05. No damn clue.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,273
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Post by chazraps on Feb 28, 2023 16:20:42 GMT -5
WWE lost an entire era of talent during that time, and much of that was because of a cancerous lockerroom. Kennedy Masters Carlito Umaga Bashams MVP Muhammad Hassan Palmer Eh, Kennedy not very good Masters is a viable choice Carlito had his own issues Umaga was up to some f***ed up stuff Bashams 🤷🏻♂️ Hassan outside factors Palmer don’t remember this dude at all really Not to entirely discredit your point but those examples aren’t great either. Carlito's issues were likely a result from him being bullied/hazed. Both of the Bashams as singles guys were as good in developmental as their contemporaries were and had they gotten an actual chance could have but utilized on the main roster far more than they were.
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Post by darbus alan on Feb 28, 2023 16:21:22 GMT -5
I have also bullied Chavo.
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Post by canceled4truth on Feb 28, 2023 16:49:03 GMT -5
also, quick shoutout to Cena and Roman for, by all accounts I've seen, actually being locker room LEADERS during their times on top rather than being petty assholes like so many before them
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
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I've been found out!
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Feb 28, 2023 16:53:06 GMT -5
What always morbidly fascinated me, is even though you hear some bad stories from the Attitude Era lockerroom, the really bad hazing and bullying stories always seem to be from the mid 2000s. Like it got way worse. I wonder if some of that was the inclusion of the weirdo "respect the business" types like Benoit, plus JBL probably becoming way more influential. Notice you never hear stories about the real stars the fans came to see like Rock, Austin, or Hogan being bullies?(not counting politics I mean actual hazing.) Seems like the hazing atmosphere was from 1998 to about 2009 once Benoit, JBL, and Holly were all gone. Seems a lot of that crap started to die off around that time with the locker room becoming more laid back. Mid 2000's defintely was the peak of it though specifically on Smackdown as that's where all those guys always were along with Undertaker. In a way I wonder if Bret leaving and Undertaker becoming the respected senior member of the roster had something to do with the change of locker room culture as that's around the time it seemed to start to get really bad with guys like JBL starting to run rampant and make life miserable for a lot of people. While Bret doesn't strike me as someone who would condone that type of behavior at the same time he doesn't strike me as someone who would step in if someone was getting out of control. However other then I guess the Steiners when they were around you don't really hear much hazing stories from say 1993 to 1997. I mean you had the Kliq but they more arrogant and underhanded not bullies who would kick guys out of the locker room. I have a lot of fond memories of Bret but no one who was considered part of Dynamite’s crew gets any passes from me regarding standing up to bullies. He enabled a terrible one. It wasn’t until Raymond Rougeau absolutely f***ed up Dynamite in retaliation for Dynamite’s behavior that it ended. Bret sure as hell didn’t put a stop to it.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
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Post by tirtefaa on Feb 28, 2023 16:53:42 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2023 16:54:40 GMT -5
Holly, Benoit, Bubba Ray, JBL and Taker seem like the absolute worst.
I regularly listen to Rene Dupree's podcast and you can just imagine how bad it was. For example, Paul London once declined a drink with Taker once and then he saw him drinking with somebody else and they made a huge deal out of it.
Imagine this happening in any other work place. That whole "respect the veterans and kiss their ass like simps" mentality was an absolute joke. Everyone should've been felt welcome and treated equal.
I actually think it would've worked better in your favor if you DIDN'T kiss their ass and instead stood up for yourself like "f*** you, I'm here to do my job. Not kiss your ass."
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Feb 28, 2023 16:58:48 GMT -5
Eh, Kennedy not very good Masters is a viable choice Carlito had his own issues Umaga was up to some f***ed up stuff Bashams 🤷🏻♂️ Hassan outside factors Palmer don’t remember this dude at all really Not to entirely discredit your point but those examples aren’t great either. Carlito's issues were likely a result from him being bullied/hazed. Both of the Bashams as singles guys were as good in developmental as their contemporaries were and had they gotten an actual chance could have but utilized on the main roster far more than they were. Bashams were just too bland to be stars on their own. I think they used them about right. I know Cornette loves them and acts like they could've been big stars but they just didn't have IT. I don't know if they were bullies or not but I know they also hung out with JBL IRL which would've spare them from getting bullied. Orlando Jordan was part of their crew as well so it seems like the Cabinet were a crew IRL as well. Don't know if all those guys were tight with JBL beforehand and they let him select who he wanted to be part of the Cabinet or if he became friends with them and started liking them once he started working with them.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 28, 2023 17:05:28 GMT -5
I saw the Chavo stuff earlier. If he deleted it all maybe he really did have a come to Jesus moment and someone on Twitter finally got through to him. He was adamantly denying what he did to Miz wasn't hazing, and in his going back and forth I think he may have realized what it actually was. That or "Go eat a bucket of chicken over Benoit's grave and cry about it" was such a ruthless response to his post he deleted it lmfao
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Feb 28, 2023 17:09:17 GMT -5
Seems like the hazing atmosphere was from 1998 to about 2009 once Benoit, JBL, and Holly were all gone. Seems a lot of that crap started to die off around that time with the locker room becoming more laid back. Mid 2000's defintely was the peak of it though specifically on Smackdown as that's where all those guys always were along with Undertaker. In a way I wonder if Bret leaving and Undertaker becoming the respected senior member of the roster had something to do with the change of locker room culture as that's around the time it seemed to start to get really bad with guys like JBL starting to run rampant and make life miserable for a lot of people. While Bret doesn't strike me as someone who would condone that type of behavior at the same time he doesn't strike me as someone who would step in if someone was getting out of control. However other then I guess the Steiners when they were around you don't really hear much hazing stories from say 1993 to 1997. I mean you had the Kliq but they more arrogant and underhanded not bullies who would kick guys out of the locker room. I have a lot of fond memories of Bret but no one who was considered part of Dynamite’s crew gets any passes from me regarding standing up to bullies. He enabled a terrible one. It wasn’t until Raymond Rougeau absolutely f***ed up Dynamite in retaliation for Dynamite’s behavior that it ended. Bret sure as hell didn’t put a stop to it. It was actually Jacques who f***ed him up via a punch with a roll of quarters as payback for Dynamite bullying him. Raymond who was the tougher of the two Rougeau Brothers was injured at the time and couldn't do anything. Bret was just a tag team midcarder at the time so it's like he would've had any authority or stroke back then. However he does seem to be too complimentary of Dynamite. Unfortunately he isn't the only one as there's a lot of guys from who actually liked him and friends with him. Bret though along with pretty much everyone agrees that he had it coming when it came to Jacques punching his teeth out. I get the impression that Dynamite was such a psycho that a lot of the wrestlers were scared to stand up to him in fear of retaliation. Kind of like the bully in school that nobody wants to get on the bad side of in fear of becoming a target themself.
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Post by Rudy Gobert Weather Machine on Feb 28, 2023 17:10:09 GMT -5
also, quick shoutout to Cena and Roman for, by all accounts I've seen, actually being locker room LEADERS during their times on top rather than being petty assholes like so many before them The moment I started loving Roman as a human was when Malakai Black talked about his first major tour with WWE where he (Malakai) was instinctively in young boy mode doing the usual tasks and feeling like an outsider until Roman came up to him like dude you're literally apart of the locker room you don't gotta go this hard.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Feb 28, 2023 17:12:53 GMT -5
Didn't Umaga also try to sexually assault someone? He was not a good person. Shelly Martinez talked about that, how he tried to sexually assault her and she escaped. Makes you wonder how much shit like this has happened in WWE that no one's ever talked about, especially when you get into WWE covering up it happening to Ashley Massaro.
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Post by BorneAgain on Feb 28, 2023 17:21:15 GMT -5
One of the tricky things about all this is that even one argues that there was a certain code necessary in the locker room to emphasize a certain respect for the business and veterans because the livelihoods of everyone depended on it... at what point does that go from being crucial for wrestling in functioning to just going on from sheer inertia? There's a common tendency for traditions and habits to go on long past their necessity because its been around so long that no one thinks to question it anymore. The entire idea that Miz being kicked out of the locker room is warranted is only valid if one believes that there is no other response that could have solved whatever perceived issue there was. If Miz had been asked to buy dinner/drinks for the boys for the next couple of days (not saying that was necessarily a deserved act, just saying as a hypothetical) would that really have been so ineffective in getting this lesson across?
That's the problem with the boys assigning themselves the role of judge, jury, & executioner; there's a lack of perspective that eventually starts settling in.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
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Post by msc on Feb 28, 2023 17:25:06 GMT -5
I have a lot of fond memories of Bret but no one who was considered part of Dynamite’s crew gets any passes from me regarding standing up to bullies. He enabled a terrible one. It wasn’t until Raymond Rougeau absolutely f***ed up Dynamite in retaliation for Dynamite’s behavior that it ended. Bret sure as hell didn’t put a stop to it. It was actually Jacques who f***ed him up via a punch with a roll of quarters as payback for Dynamite bullying him. Raymond who was the tougher of the two Rougeau Brothers was injured at the time and couldn't do anything. Bret was just a tag team midcarder at the time so it's like he would've had any authority or stroke back then. However he does seem to be too complimentary of Dynamite. Unfortunately he isn't the only one as there's a lot of guys from who actually liked him and friends with him. Bret though along with pretty much everyone agrees that he had it coming when it came to Jacques punching his teeth out. I get the impression that Dynamite was such a psycho that a lot of the wrestlers were scared to stand up to him in fear of retaliation. Kind of like the bully in school that nobody wants to get on the bad side of in fear of becoming a target themself. I got the impression from Bret's book that while he respected Dynamite's in-ring talent, he thought the guy was a complete arsehole and was a bit scared of him (which iirc was backed up by Neidhart back in the day). Which, given the stories of Billington threatening family and friends with loaded guns, makes a lot of sense. Wrestling has a habit of bigging up right horrible people.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,273
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Post by chazraps on Feb 28, 2023 17:34:13 GMT -5
Carlito's issues were likely a result from him being bullied/hazed. Both of the Bashams as singles guys were as good in developmental as their contemporaries were and had they gotten an actual chance could have but utilized on the main roster far more than they were. Bashams were just too bland to be stars on their own. I think they used them about right. I know Cornette loves them and acts like they could've been big stars but they just didn't have IT. I disagree. Their OVW work is special to me, when they still had that fire and weren't shaved and shoved into a gimmick that didn't fit them on the main roster. Had they grown in a proper locker room with proper coaching/mentoring they could have separately gone a lot father.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
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Post by tirtefaa on Feb 28, 2023 17:40:27 GMT -5
I got the impression from Bret's book that while he respected Dynamite's in-ring talent, he thought the guy was a complete arsehole and was a bit scared of him (which iirc was backed up by Neidhart back in the day). Which, given the stories of Billington threatening family and friends with loaded guns, makes a lot of sense. Wrestling has a habit of bigging up right horrible people. Nah, Bret was good friends with Dynamite. In fact, he gave him money to get his teeth fixed after the Rougeau incident. Fact of the matter is, almost all the boys weren't going to get involved in what they saw as other people's drama. Even if it was bullying or ribbing, it was considered that person's job to take care of it. Why stick your neck out for someone who might not even be there in a month? That doesn't excuse that behavior, but it's very common. Most guys were just there to do their job, get paid, and go home. They didn't want any additional responsibilities. I guess that unless someone's life was on the line, they weren't going to step in.
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fg
Unicron
Gaming
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Post by fg on Feb 28, 2023 17:42:13 GMT -5
I guess we can all agree on this.
What went on backstage as those YouTube comments imply was WRONG and thankfullY (for the most part at least) have gone away.
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Post by BorneAgain on Feb 28, 2023 17:46:47 GMT -5
A lot of the lost generation talent likely were hurt by a lot of factors; the developmental to main roster pipeline being inconsistent, creative its most hit and miss era, WWE reluctant to heavily push many people after Lesnar's departure, and yeah being guys in the locker room without anyone to directly look out for them. I honestly believe Miz going to ECW when he did pretty much saved him because he managed to be big fish in a small pond, was away from enough certain talents (and bad creative) to not get buried, and made the most of everything they gave him (feud with Balls Mahoney, program with Punk, partnership with Morrison).
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Post by Instant Classic on Feb 28, 2023 17:59:10 GMT -5
I love how the backstage has changed. Most people love playing video games together and you can see Taker and probably others hate that fact.
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