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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Feb 28, 2023 17:59:32 GMT -5
A lot of the lost generation talent likely were hurt by a lot of factors; the developmental to main roster pipeline being inconsistent, creative its most hit and miss era, WWE reluctant to heavily push many people after Lesnar's departure, and yeah being guys in the locker room without anyone to directly look out for them. I honestly believe Miz going to ECW when he did pretty much saved him because he managed to be big fish in a small pond, was away from enough certain talents (and bad creative) to not get buried, and made the most of everything they gave him (feud with Balls Mahoney, program with Punk, partnership with Morrison). Honestly it's amazing the Morrison team worked out as well as it did and WWE got so high on it considering how absolutely stupidly it came together. They were kind of half-feuding with each other while both feuding with Punk then just kind of did the wacky mismatched tag partners thing except now they were suddenly friends afterward and it just stuck.
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Post by BorneAgain on Feb 28, 2023 18:05:20 GMT -5
A lot of the lost generation talent likely were hurt by a lot of factors; the developmental to main roster pipeline being inconsistent, creative its most hit and miss era, WWE reluctant to heavily push many people after Lesnar's departure, and yeah being guys in the locker room without anyone to directly look out for them. I honestly believe Miz going to ECW when he did pretty much saved him because he managed to be big fish in a small pond, was away from enough certain talents (and bad creative) to not get buried, and made the most of everything they gave him (feud with Balls Mahoney, program with Punk, partnership with Morrison). Honestly it's amazing the Morrison team worked out as well as it did and WWE got so high on it considering how absolutely stupidly it came together. They were kind of half-feuding with each other while both feuding with Punk then just kind of did the wacky mismatched tag partners thing except now they were suddenly friends afterward and it just stuck. It was the weirdest good luck of the tag division not being strong in general, the surprisingly good chemistry between the two given their contrasting gimmicks, and the Dirt Sheet basically giving them a solid platform to do entertaining stuff while working as a base for various feuds. Just the right mixture of creative basically keeping them strong while managing to get over enough that losses they did get didn't really hurt them that much. Also a case of ECW being generally low priority enough that the duo didn't get ruined by dubious ideas or being sacrificed to get others over.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 17,405
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Post by BRV on Feb 28, 2023 18:07:45 GMT -5
Holly, Benoit, Bubba Ray, JBL and Taker seem like the absolute worst. I regularly listen to Rene Dupree's podcast and you can just imagine how bad it was. For example, Paul London once declined a drink with Taker once and then he saw him drinking with somebody else and they made a huge deal out of it. Imagine this happening in any other work place. That whole "respect the veterans and kiss their ass like simps" mentality was an absolute joke. Everyone should've been felt welcome and treated equal. I actually think it would've worked better in your favor if you DIDN'T kiss their ass and instead stood up for yourself like "f*** you, I'm here to do my job. Not kiss your ass." One of the absolute weirdest things that old-school wrestlers from the 90s and 2000s would get a hair across their ass about was shaking hands. Apparently, you had to shake everyone’s hand upon greeting them at every event, otherwise that was a sign of disrespect. However, your handshake couldn’t be too firm, or it would be interpreted that you were trying to be a “tough guy.” But, your handshake also couldn’t be weak, because then you’d be perceived as soft. Like, imagine the mental gymnastics going through a young wrestlers’ head when they’re seeing Hardcore Holly at some random house show in Akron or whatever and wondering if your handshake is about to piss him off and cause him to either bully you incessantly backstage and/or kick your ass for real in the ring.
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Feb 28, 2023 18:10:59 GMT -5
Considering the locker rooms he saw, WCW 1996-2001 and WWE 2002 to whenever Wrestlers court ended. Rey has not changed for the worse thankfully.
He would have crazy stories to share if he did a shoot interview.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,560
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Post by msc on Feb 28, 2023 18:14:56 GMT -5
Bashams were just too bland to be stars on their own. I think they used them about right. I know Cornette loves them and acts like they could've been big stars but they just didn't have IT. I disagree. Their OVW work is special to me, when they still had that fire and weren't shaved and shoved into a gimmick that didn't fit them on the main roster. Had they grown in a proper locker room with proper coaching/mentoring they could have separately gone a lot father. Remember when Damaja (sp?) won a tournament to get into the 2003 Royal Rumble. They made a lot of that one. (I presume there was an explanation on developmental TV - there never was over here.)
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fg
Unicron
Gaming
Posts: 3,330
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Post by fg on Feb 28, 2023 18:21:01 GMT -5
I disagree. Their OVW work is special to me, when they still had that fire and weren't shaved and shoved into a gimmick that didn't fit them on the main roster. Had they grown in a proper locker room with proper coaching/mentoring they could have separately gone a lot father. Remember when Damaja (sp?) won a tournament to get into the 2003 Royal Rumble. They made a lot of that one. (I presume there was an explanation on developmental TV - there never was over here.) Damaja (sp?) never appeared in the 2003 RR. I don’t think he appeared in ANY Royal Rumble.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2023 18:25:01 GMT -5
Holly, Benoit, Bubba Ray, JBL and Taker seem like the absolute worst. I regularly listen to Rene Dupree's podcast and you can just imagine how bad it was. For example, Paul London once declined a drink with Taker once and then he saw him drinking with somebody else and they made a huge deal out of it. Imagine this happening in any other work place. That whole "respect the veterans and kiss their ass like simps" mentality was an absolute joke. Everyone should've been felt welcome and treated equal. I actually think it would've worked better in your favor if you DIDN'T kiss their ass and instead stood up for yourself like "f*** you, I'm here to do my job. Not kiss your ass." One of the absolute weirdest things that old-school wrestlers from the 90s and 2000s would get a hair across their ass about was shaking hands. Apparently, you had to shake everyone’s hand upon greeting them at every event, otherwise that was a sign of disrespect. However, your handshake couldn’t be too firm, or it would be interpreted that you were trying to be a “tough guy.” But, your handshake also couldn’t be weak, because then you’d be perceived as soft. Like, imagine the mental gymnastics going through a young wrestlers’ head when they’re seeing Hardcore Holly at some random house show in Akron or whatever and wondering if your handshake is about to piss him off and cause him to either bully you incessantly backstage and/or kick your ass for real in the ring. The weirdest thing though is the handshake thing wasn't around before then. It's not like it was a locker room thing in the 70s and 80s. People just went about their business and didn't go out if their way to greet the new guys and vice versa.
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Feb 28, 2023 19:03:17 GMT -5
I saw the Chavo stuff earlier. If he deleted it all maybe he really did have a come to Jesus moment and someone on Twitter finally got through to him. He was adamantly denying what he did to Miz wasn't hazing, and in his going back and forth I think he may have realized what it actually was. Chavo calling Bob Holly at 3AM:
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Post by MrElijah on Feb 28, 2023 19:13:38 GMT -5
Holly, Benoit, Bubba Ray, JBL and Taker seem like the absolute worst. I regularly listen to Rene Dupree's podcast and you can just imagine how bad it was. For example, Paul London once declined a drink with Taker once and then he saw him drinking with somebody else and they made a huge deal out of it. Imagine this happening in any other work place. That whole "respect the veterans and kiss their ass like simps" mentality was an absolute joke. Everyone should've been felt welcome and treated equal. I actually think it would've worked better in your favor if you DIDN'T kiss their ass and instead stood up for yourself like "f*** you, I'm here to do my job. Not kiss your ass." One of the absolute weirdest things that old-school wrestlers from the 90s and 2000s would get a hair across their ass about was shaking hands. Apparently, you had to shake everyone’s hand upon greeting them at every event, otherwise that was a sign of disrespect. However, your handshake couldn’t be too firm, or it would be interpreted that you were trying to be a “tough guy.” But, your handshake also couldn’t be weak, because then you’d be perceived as soft. Like, imagine the mental gymnastics going through a young wrestlers’ head when they’re seeing Hardcore Holly at some random house show in Akron or whatever and wondering if your handshake is about to piss him off and cause him to either bully you incessantly backstage and/or kick your ass for real in the ring. Has anyone ever shoot on or try to f*** up Bob Holly? Dude just seemed to be an entitled jackass.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,987
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 28, 2023 19:41:33 GMT -5
One of the absolute weirdest things that old-school wrestlers from the 90s and 2000s would get a hair across their ass about was shaking hands. Apparently, you had to shake everyone’s hand upon greeting them at every event, otherwise that was a sign of disrespect. However, your handshake couldn’t be too firm, or it would be interpreted that you were trying to be a “tough guy.” But, your handshake also couldn’t be weak, because then you’d be perceived as soft. Like, imagine the mental gymnastics going through a young wrestlers’ head when they’re seeing Hardcore Holly at some random house show in Akron or whatever and wondering if your handshake is about to piss him off and cause him to either bully you incessantly backstage and/or kick your ass for real in the ring. Has anyone ever shoot on or try to f*** up Bob Holly? Dude just seemed to be an entitled jackass. The thing about shooting on Holly is it'd be so pointless. He was always the gatekeeper where, if you are dealing with him, you probably were placed in that position by people who wanted to screw with you, in which case starting anything with him wouldn't fix that, and he was so ultimately low on the totem pole that people just probably got it over with to put it behind them. It's sort of like how I don't think it's an accident who the Acolytes were and weren't harsh on.
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Post by joeiscool on Feb 28, 2023 21:46:37 GMT -5
What always morbidly fascinated me, is even though you hear some bad stories from the Attitude Era lockerroom, the really bad hazing and bullying stories always seem to be from the mid 2000s. Like it got way worse. I wonder if some of that was the inclusion of the weirdo "respect the business" types like Benoit, plus JBL probably becoming way more influential. Notice you never hear stories about the real stars the fans came to see like Rock, Austin, or Hogan being bullies?(not counting politics I mean actual hazing.) My guess is that bullying is a result of trying to keep order in a sport that was basically the wild west a years before. Wrestling in like the 70s and 80s sounds crazy. Like wrestling school sounds like they would just beat you up for the first few weeks and then if you came back they would teach you how to wrestle. While I'll never condone bulling I understand how someone coming from an industry where it was normal for people to get stabbed in showers might think forcing someone to dress in public is not that bad.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,552
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Feb 28, 2023 21:55:17 GMT -5
Miz in now in that position, and clearly he’s better at it than those guys were.
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Post by stevescorpio on Feb 28, 2023 22:15:44 GMT -5
Holly sandbagged Lesnar and nearly had his career ended. You would think that would wise him up.
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Post by ChitownKnight on Feb 28, 2023 22:27:59 GMT -5
I don’t get why Holly had that much clout. He spent the majority of his career on velocity from what I remember lol
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 3,271
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Post by tirtefaa on Feb 28, 2023 22:37:36 GMT -5
I don’t get why Holly had that much clout. He spent the majority of his career on velocity from what I remember lol He was considered a solid hand as far as going out there and judging rookies and working with them and probably was on good terms with most vets, so he likely kept his job for that reason. Funny that Kennedy of all folks helped get Holly canned, after Holly was stealing meds out of his bag.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Feb 28, 2023 22:53:32 GMT -5
The fact that you can still see in Miz's face that he knows he didn't get any damn chicken on this man's bag is the worst part. I’m imagining poor Mike Mizanin sitting in the lockerroom eating his chicken like a rat and the bag is literally in another room and Benoit bursts in. “YOU GOT CHICKEN ON MY BAAAAAAG”
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Feb 28, 2023 23:01:03 GMT -5
I'm reminded of that video from E3 like a year or two after the Benoit thing happened where Miz was doing a signing and the guy who posted the video was just throwing a bunch of really cringy insults at him and mockingly bringing up Benoit and seemed to think it was a massive W even though Miz basically just completely shut him down with zero effort.
I also remember that guy shit-talked Harvest Moon in that video so that's an extra reason to say screw that dude.
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Post by ChitownKnight on Feb 28, 2023 23:04:20 GMT -5
I'm reminded of that video from E3 like a year or two after the Benoit thing happened where Miz was doing a signing and the guy who posted the video was just throwing a bunch of really cringy insults at him and mockingly bringing up Benoit and seemed to think it was a massive W even though Miz basically just completely shut him down with zero effort. I also remember that guy shit-talked Harvest Moon in that video so that's an extra reason to say screw that dude. It’s crazy that back in 2006-2007, Benoit was a respected veteran, while the Miz was portrayed as a clown to the IWC, man do the tables turn
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Feb 28, 2023 23:07:49 GMT -5
I'm reminded of that video from E3 like a year or two after the Benoit thing happened where Miz was doing a signing and the guy who posted the video was just throwing a bunch of really cringy insults at him and mockingly bringing up Benoit and seemed to think it was a massive W even though Miz basically just completely shut him down with zero effort. I also remember that guy shit-talked Harvest Moon in that video so that's an extra reason to say screw that dude. It’s crazy that back in 2006-2007, Benoit was a respected veteran, while the Miz was portrayed as a clown to the IWC, man do the tables turn All it took was a double murder to make people change their tune. Lol.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 3,271
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Post by tirtefaa on Feb 28, 2023 23:08:14 GMT -5
Kennedy Masters Carlito Umaga Bashams MVP Muhammad Hassan Palmer One that gets overlooked a lot is Daniel Puder. Do I think he had a bright future? Probably not. However at the time he was severely over, despite having the personality of a block of wood. The Tough Enough incident where they were put in the ring with Kurt Angle was ridiculous. I don't blame Kurt and I don't blame the TE cast, I blame Vince and anyone who thought it was a good idea to tell Kurt to go out there and have a shoot fight with the rookies without clueing them in. So Puder reacted how anyone would if you're being roughed up and told to fight back. It's a Catch 22 no matter what he did. So after he wins Tough Enough, he's guaranteed to be in the Rumble. WWE in their infinite wisdom decided to make him a cocky heel, which contradicted everything he presented himself as up to that point, then they put him in the ring for all the bully veterans to just beat on him for what he did to Kurt. They make him look like a joke, then they release him. They also reneged on him receiving the full $1 million he should have gotten. The whole affair just sickens me, and I'm by no means a Daniel Puder fan.
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