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Post by ChitownKnight on Feb 28, 2023 23:31:53 GMT -5
Kennedy Masters Carlito Umaga Bashams MVP Muhammad Hassan Palmer One that gets overlooked a lot is Daniel Puder. Do I think he had a bright future? Probably not. However at the time he was severely over, despite having the personality of a block of wood. The Tough Enough incident where they were put in the ring with Kurt Angle was ridiculous. I don't blame Kurt and I don't blame the TE cast, I blame Vince and anyone who thought it was a good idea to tell Kurt to go out there and have a shoot fight with the rookies without clueing them in. So Puder reacted how anyone would if you're being roughed up and told to fight back. It's a Catch 22 no matter what he did. So after he wins Tough Enough, he's guaranteed to be in the Rumble. WWE in their infinite wisdom decided to make him a cocky heel, which contradicted everything he presented himself as up to that point, then they put him in the ring for all the bully veterans to just beat on him for what he did to Kurt. They make him look like a joke, then they release him. They also reneged on him receiving the full $1 million he should have gotten. The whole affair just sickens me, and I'm by no means a Daniel Puder fan. He never got the 1 mil?
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 3,271
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Post by tirtefaa on Feb 28, 2023 23:43:05 GMT -5
I can't remember the exact number, but I think it was $250k. For what those guys went through, they all should have gotten that.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Mar 1, 2023 10:56:15 GMT -5
I don’t get why Holly had that much clout. He spent the majority of his career on velocity from what I remember lol From Holly's own book he doesn't know either. He assumed it's cause he was in WWF/WWE so long because he basically just hung out with Mick Foley and Al Snow. As for people shooting on any of the bullies from WWE in that time, what's interesting is legit anytime someone did shoot the bullying stopped right away. Rey actually tried to stop a lot of the bullying and he and Regal were apparently two of the guys that people like Benoit would listen to. Renee's podcast is an interesting one. They tend to dunk on current workers a bit too much to the point it comes off as mean spirited, but everybody he talks to really are open about how miserable Smackdown especially was but they also talk about people like Triple H making life hell too. Roman never heard a bad word about. The only real negative I've heard about when Cena was a locker room leader was a weird one from Ricardo Rodriguez. He talked about how there was complimentary massages and chiropractors for talent and of course stuff like ice packs, and if people were called up from developmental and they took advantage of that they'd be ostracized for not being on the road long enough. Mox kind of talked about in his book that the locker room BS he dealt with when he first got called up was enough for him to decide he'd look out for the young guys
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,581
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Mar 1, 2023 12:37:16 GMT -5
Why does locker room leaders not hold all rookies to the same standards? Where are Brock Lesnar's bag carrying claims?
And on a personal note to Benoit; f*** you.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Mar 1, 2023 12:46:37 GMT -5
Why does locker room leaders not hold all rookies to the same standards? Where are Brock Lesnar's bag carrying claims? And on a personal note to Benoit; f*** you. Long story short, they know who they can and can't get away with not just cause of the talent but because of the office. THey had big plans for Brock and if they messed with him the'd be dead... either legit or career wise. Aside with some political stuff nobody tried stuff with guys like Big E or the Shield... heck when CM Punk came up people did try to mess with him and he fought back so it ended
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The Blue Nova
Don Corleone
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 1,399
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Post by The Blue Nova on Mar 1, 2023 14:51:22 GMT -5
The locker room in the 90s to early to mid 2000s were terrible to be honest. Listen to Renee Duprees podcast so many stories on it. but lets be honest it was a bullying mentality and they picked their victims. they were not going to haze or bully someone like say a kurgan or a Brock lesnar .
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Mar 1, 2023 15:29:24 GMT -5
Why does locker room leaders not hold all rookies to the same standards? Where are Brock Lesnar's bag carrying claims? And on a personal note to Benoit; f*** you. It's weird to me that that one has carried over until recently. Lio Rush fell out of favor for, I think fairly, pointing out "Hey, what do you think the optics are on people seeing you ordering the black kid to carry your bags around?"
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,581
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Mar 1, 2023 15:39:51 GMT -5
Why does locker room leaders not hold all rookies to the same standards? Where are Brock Lesnar's bag carrying claims? And on a personal note to Benoit; f*** you. Long story short, they know who they can and can't get away with not just cause of the talent but because of the office. THey had big plans for Brock and if they messed with him the'd be dead... either legit or career wise. Aside with some political stuff nobody tried stuff with guys like Big E or the Shield... heck when CM Punk came up people did try to mess with him and he fought back so it ended It was a rhetorical question. Thanks none the same.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,560
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Post by msc on Mar 1, 2023 15:50:51 GMT -5
Why does locker room leaders not hold all rookies to the same standards? Where are Brock Lesnar's bag carrying claims? And on a personal note to Benoit; f*** you. Long story short, they know who they can and can't get away with not just cause of the talent but because of the office. THey had big plans for Brock and if they messed with him the'd be dead... either legit or career wise. Aside with some political stuff nobody tried stuff with guys like Big E or the Shield... heck when CM Punk came up people did try to mess with him and he fought back so it ended Well, Hardcore Holly rather infamously tried to go dead weight on a few spots with Brock, and lost a year of his career. Both sides have claimed otherwise since, but it was fairly obvious from just watching the match. (Not that I intend to again - rather squeamish about nasty injuries!)
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,783
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Post by fw91 on Mar 1, 2023 16:08:09 GMT -5
Any other gluttonous schlubs out there, that always ponder what type of prepared chicken Miz was eating in the locker room, or just me?
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Post by kingoftheindies on Mar 1, 2023 16:16:36 GMT -5
so just to highlight since a couple people have brought up Rene Dupree's comments here's a clip of him and Paul London talking about the Holly situation www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQz82S0F4Jw
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 24,176
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Post by Bo Rida on Mar 1, 2023 17:35:53 GMT -5
I think Rene Dupree's podcast is one of the best direct sources. Usually history is written by the victors. In wrestling's case big stars and companies, any counter narrative tends to come from the bitter, delusional or grifters.
René is rare case of walking on his own terms and being happy with how his life and career went afterwards.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 2, 2023 2:05:26 GMT -5
As I recall the stip was "You'll get the $1 million over the course of a five-year contract, but only if you last the full five years." Only they never told him that until he was cut.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,987
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 2, 2023 3:31:54 GMT -5
Why does locker room leaders not hold all rookies to the same standards? Where are Brock Lesnar's bag carrying claims? And on a personal note to Benoit; f*** you. People did occasionally rib him. I know you're being rhetorical, but this is a case of an actually funny rib, rather than someone being a dickhead. Brock was facing Spike Dudley on a house show or dark match, I forget which. Spike climbed on Brock when he was on the mat on his stomach, and basically just spun around on him and lightly smacked the back of his head a few times, goofing off. Brock was caught off guard, but obviously quickly got out from under him when the shock passed and worked Spike to the mat, since obviously Brock's got extensive amateur experience. I think Spike said Brock was trying really hard not to openly laugh at the sheer audacity, but it's been ages since I heard the story. But yeah, if someone's got management deeply invested in them, like Brock or Kurt, no one's stupid enough to get heat with the office by messing with them.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 2, 2023 5:55:37 GMT -5
Why does locker room leaders not hold all rookies to the same standards? Where are Brock Lesnar's bag carrying claims? And on a personal note to Benoit; f*** you. Long story short, they know who they can and can't get away with not just cause of the talent but because of the office. THey had big plans for Brock and if they messed with him the'd be dead... either legit or career wise. Aside with some political stuff nobody tried stuff with guys like Big E or the Shield... heck when CM Punk came up people did try to mess with him and he fought back so it ended Ivory said JBL all but offered to carry Brock's bags from day one because he knew if he pulled his usual stuff with Brock, he'd get his ass beat and he'd be fired. The politics continued around Brock though, and were a big part in him quitting the first time. He watched guys like Nathan Jones going out of their mind dealing with politics and hazing, people becoming addicts dealing with the pain, drama and just to cope on the road, and he was stuck travelling to South Africa to work a program with Bob Holly nobody wanted.
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Post by Fake Jesus on Mar 2, 2023 6:29:37 GMT -5
One thing I never got was why they didn't haze Punk. Anything you ever hear about him comes across as normal ass backstage politics. It's not like he was a tough guy and he was literally an indie star so what, was he just that much of an asshole that they feared getting chewed out by him? I suppose there's that story where Calaway was like "wear a suit" and Punk was just like "no f*** you" so uh, maybe?
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Mar 2, 2023 6:43:39 GMT -5
One thing I never got was why they didn't haze Punk. Anything you ever hear about him comes across as normal ass backstage politics. It's not like he was a tough guy and he was literally an indie star so what, was he just that much of an asshole that they feared getting chewed out by him? I suppose there's that story where Calaway was like "wear a suit" and Punk was just like "no f*** you" so uh, maybe? I would say this is pretty much the reason. I don't think it's so much they feared him but more for all Punk's faults he comes off like someone who isn't going to back down and at the same time also wouldn't give a crap. I'm guessing if they started to mess with him Punk would either blow it off or give them a piece of his mind. Bullies are going to target people they find vulnerable. So in this case guys who aren't tough guys that aren't deemed a threat to them physically and guys who have more passive personalities who aren't going to want to be confrontational even when they are being harassed or threatened. With guys that stand up for themselves even if push came to shove the bully would probably beat them in a fight they aren't going to feel it's worth the trouble and instead are always going to go after the "easy target".
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Post by ChitownKnight on Mar 2, 2023 9:59:20 GMT -5
One thing I never got was why they didn't haze Punk. Anything you ever hear about him comes across as normal ass backstage politics. It's not like he was a tough guy and he was literally an indie star so what, was he just that much of an asshole that they feared getting chewed out by him? I suppose there's that story where Calaway was like "wear a suit" and Punk was just like "no f*** you" so uh, maybe? I mean wearing a suit doesn’t really fit Punk’s character anyways
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Post by kingoftheindies on Mar 2, 2023 10:05:30 GMT -5
One thing I never got was why they didn't haze Punk. Anything you ever hear about him comes across as normal ass backstage politics. It's not like he was a tough guy and he was literally an indie star so what, was he just that much of an asshole that they feared getting chewed out by him? I suppose there's that story where Calaway was like "wear a suit" and Punk was just like "no f*** you" so uh, maybe? There are stories that some tried to haze him. The normal wrestlers, but Punk's comebacks basically shut up the bullies. I've heard stories of either JBL or Taker questioning Punk about how he dressed sarcastically and Punk basically threw it back at them and after that they didn't go at Punk... at least not to his face because a lot of people confirmed that people would bury Punk in creative meetings. Didn't notice you referenced the Taker story, I believe it was why don't you wear a suit and Punk responded with "why don't you?" and that was that with Taker
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 17,405
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Post by BRV on Mar 2, 2023 10:57:34 GMT -5
What always morbidly fascinated me, is even though you hear some bad stories from the Attitude Era lockerroom, the really bad hazing and bullying stories always seem to be from the mid 2000s. Like it got way worse. I really wonder if the fact that WWE was really the only game in town from like 2001-2006 (when all indications are backstage hazing was at its absolute worst), led to the attitude in the locker room. With no WCW or ECW or legitimate competition for that matter, I wonder if the "old guard" felt more emboldened in their behavior, because these rookies and up-and-comers had really nowhere else to go to ply their trade and make a name for themselves. So they got away with more abhorrent behavior, and the younger talent had to just take it, because they weren't going to make anywhere near the money or name recognition going to somewhere like NWA-TNA in its inception or dead-on-arrival federations like World Wrestling All-Stars. Also, I think Chris Benoit's murder-suicide in 2007 probably scared a lot of people straight. After the summer of 2007, especially with more rigorous steroid and head trauma protocols in place, you didn't really hear about the worst of the bullying and hazing. Maybe reading about one of the most respected "locker room leaders" killing himself and his family made the veterans realize that either a) the hazing wasn't worth it or b) cleaning up their acts made them more clear-headed about how awful their behavior had been.
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