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Post by stoptheclocks on Sept 5, 2023 2:07:15 GMT -5
How many guys who that has been said about, have left WWE and won world titles in major companies? Or look remotely likely to do so? Jon Moxley and... I mean including AEW, Japan, AAA, and Impact there's more than Jon Moxley to that list, including Claudio who has won the ROH World Title twice now, or Cardona who has made a pretty big name for himself in multiple companies. And if you don't think Nakamura wouldn't immediately go back to Japan and win gold then idk, I don't agree, I think he absolutely would. I understand why he likely finishes his career in WWE, just wish we could have seen one last King of Strong Style run elsewhere, doesn't mean it'll happen, was just my own selfish wants, and that's fine if they don't happen, just a silly lament on the possibility lol More people watched Nakamura's last two matches live in person in the past four days than watch ROH in a month. And by no definition are the companies Ryder is headlining for 'major'. Nakamura is a credible, over midcarder who can be heated up as a contender. That's what he is in WWE and that's what he'd be in AEW or NJPW. And even if he beat Seth in the rematch it wouldn't actually change that, he'd just be a midcarder with a belt. None of which is to say you shouldn't want your guy to win, of course, that's the whole point of this thing. But in the grand scheme of things being a challenger in a main event feud in WWE is a prestigious spot, even if it's just to be villain of the month to one of their actual superheroes.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Sept 5, 2023 2:08:15 GMT -5
I mean including AEW, Japan, AAA, and Impact there's more than Jon Moxley to that list, including Claudio who has won the ROH World Title twice now, or Cardona who has made a pretty big name for himself in multiple companies. And if you don't think Nakamura wouldn't immediately go back to Japan and win gold then idk, I don't agree, I think he absolutely would. I understand why he likely finishes his career in WWE, just wish we could have seen one last King of Strong Style run elsewhere, doesn't mean it'll happen, was just my own selfish wants, and that's fine if they don't happen, just a silly lament on the possibility lol More people watched Nakamura's last two matches live in person in the past four days than watch ROH in a month. And by no definition are the companies Ryder is headlining for 'major'. Nakamura is a credible, over midcarder who can be heated up as a contender. That's what he is in WWE and that's what he'd be in AEW or NJPW. And even if he beat Seth in the rematch it wouldn't actually change that, he'd just be a midcarder with a belt. None of which is to say you shouldn't want your guy to win, of course, that's the whole point of this thing. But in the grand scheme of things being a challenger in a main event feud in WWE is a prestigious spot, even if it's just to be villain of the month to one of their actual superheroes. Again I feel like I've seen Nakamura do everything he will be allowed to do in WWE, I wanted to see him outside of it and do fresh matchups. That NOAH match was a tease for that tbh I understand why he wouldn't though, again, it's a cushy gig
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
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Post by Nosnorb on Sept 5, 2023 2:14:06 GMT -5
I mean including AEW, Japan, AAA, and Impact there's more than Jon Moxley to that list, including Claudio who has won the ROH World Title twice now, or Cardona who has made a pretty big name for himself in multiple companies. And if you don't think Nakamura wouldn't immediately go back to Japan and win gold then idk, I don't agree, I think he absolutely would. I understand why he likely finishes his career in WWE, just wish we could have seen one last King of Strong Style run elsewhere, doesn't mean it'll happen, was just my own selfish wants, and that's fine if they don't happen, just a silly lament on the possibility lol Nakamura is a credible, over midcarder who can be heated up as a contender. That's what he is in WWE and that's what he'd be in AEW or NJPW. And even if he beat Seth in the rematch it wouldn't actually change that, he'd just be a midcarder with a belt. He would still be in a better position winning the title, because it would show that when the chips are down, then he can bring home the bacon. Right now, dude is feasting in Bitchhalla.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Sept 5, 2023 6:24:55 GMT -5
The whole, "Why do you care when people lose over and over and over and over and over and over and think it ruins people's credibility?" viewpoint always completely baffles me. It's like I'm being told I'm wrong to care about story consistency and continuity. End of the day this character is a non-threat as he's positioned. Every time he's given a chance to ascend to the next level he gets his ass kicked. How am I supposed to be invested in that past a certain point? Not even a billion segments where Nakamura gets the upper hand on Seth will wash away the choking.
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FinalGwen
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Post by FinalGwen on Sept 5, 2023 6:42:38 GMT -5
I think when you keep building people up to title matches and have them lose every single time, it definitely has an impact on their status/perception. Not just a WWE thing, it's kinda hard to get invested in Ruby Soho in AEW despite how much I like her, because every time she gets a big match she does the job. More people watched Nakamura's last two matches live in person in the past four days than watch ROH in a month. And by no definition are the companies Ryder is headlining for 'major'. Nakamura is a credible, over midcarder who can be heated up as a contender. That's what he is in WWE and that's what he'd be in AEW or NJPW. And even if he beat Seth in the rematch it wouldn't actually change that, he'd just be a midcarder with a belt. None of which is to say you shouldn't want your guy to win, of course, that's the whole point of this thing. But in the grand scheme of things being a challenger in a main event feud in WWE is a prestigious spot, even if it's just to be villain of the month to one of their actual superheroes. And I kinda feel like that's not the best argument when about 91k people have seen the ROH Champion wrestle live in person in the last week.
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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 5, 2023 7:39:44 GMT -5
Because he hit a ceiling and has felt like he's done all he can do in the company after what 8 years there? A fresh start wouldn't have been a bad thing imo, especially because it's not "yet", he's never winning a world title, they've made that perfectly clear. How many guys who that has been said about, have left WWE and won world titles in major companies? Or look remotely likely to do so? Jon Moxley and... Moxley was world champion in WWE multiple times so he doesn’t even count.
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Post by polarbearpete on Sept 5, 2023 7:39:55 GMT -5
How many guys who that has been said about, have left WWE and won world titles in major companies? Or look remotely likely to do so? Jon Moxley and... I mean including AEW, Japan, AAA, and Impact there's more than Jon Moxley to that list, including Claudio who has won the ROH World Title twice now, or Cardona who has made a pretty big name for himself in multiple companies. And if you don't think Nakamura wouldn't immediately go back to Japan and win gold then idk, I don't agree, I think he absolutely would. I understand why he likely finishes his career in WWE, just wish we could have seen one last King of Strong Style run elsewhere, doesn't mean it'll happen, was just my own selfish wants, and that's fine if they don't happen, just a silly lament on the possibility lol ROH is not a major world title so Claudio is still an example of someone that hasn’t won the big one after leaving WWE.
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Post by stoptheclocks on Sept 5, 2023 8:02:15 GMT -5
I think when you keep building people up to title matches and have them lose every single time, it definitely has an impact on their status/perception. Not just a WWE thing, it's kinda hard to get invested in Ruby Soho in AEW despite how much I like her, because every time she gets a big match she does the job. More people watched Nakamura's last two matches live in person in the past four days than watch ROH in a month. And by no definition are the companies Ryder is headlining for 'major'. Nakamura is a credible, over midcarder who can be heated up as a contender. That's what he is in WWE and that's what he'd be in AEW or NJPW. And even if he beat Seth in the rematch it wouldn't actually change that, he'd just be a midcarder with a belt. None of which is to say you shouldn't want your guy to win, of course, that's the whole point of this thing. But in the grand scheme of things being a challenger in a main event feud in WWE is a prestigious spot, even if it's just to be villain of the month to one of their actual superheroes. And I kinda feel like that's not the best argument when about 91k people have seen the ROH Champion wrestle live in person in the last week. The ROH Championship, as presented on AEW, is a midcard belt. On ROH TV, it's the main belt of a promotion watched by less than 18,000 people per month. Whichever way you slice it, being the ROH Champion is not above whatever ceiling Nakamura has reached in WWE. Or indeed the ceiling Claudio reached in WWE. His standing on the card has remained very similar across the two major promotions he's worked for.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 8,375
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Post by Nosnorb on Sept 5, 2023 8:32:36 GMT -5
How many guys who that has been said about, have left WWE and won world titles in major companies? Or look remotely likely to do so? Jon Moxley and... Moxley was world champion in WWE multiple times so he doesn’t even count. He won the WWE Championship once, which to be fair, was a perfect moment in storyline.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Sept 5, 2023 8:53:45 GMT -5
Man, I sometimes wonder if I just have a different definition of "ascending to Bitchalla" than others.
Know who's a total bitch? Riddick Moss, who just a few months ago was at least mixing it up on main roster TV with folks. Now he can barely make it to Main Event and when he does, he loses. That's a bitch. Apollo Crews? Also ascended to Bitchalla.
Shinsuke's been around for a minute now, but this is genuinely the best he's been presented since his debut. I'm digging it.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
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Post by Nosnorb on Sept 5, 2023 9:00:31 GMT -5
Man, I sometimes wonder if I just have a different definition of "ascending to Bitchalla" than others. Know who's a total bitch? Riddick Moss, who just a few months ago was at least mixing it up on main roster TV with folks. Now he can barely make it to Main Event and when he does, he loses. That's a bitch. Apollo Crews? Also ascended to Bitchalla. Shinsuke's been around for a minute now, but this is genuinely the best he's been presented since his debut. I'm digging it. He bottled it once again against an opponent with a f***ed back on PPV , then turned down a title shot from a dude who left Pittsburgh in a wheelchair. Dude is absolutely a Bitch. Just because those two are also bitches, doesn't make Shinsuke any less of a bitch for choking once again.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Sept 5, 2023 9:07:21 GMT -5
Man, I sometimes wonder if I just have a different definition of "ascending to Bitchalla" than others. Know who's a total bitch? Riddick Moss, who just a few months ago was at least mixing it up on main roster TV with folks. Now he can barely make it to Main Event and when he does, he loses. That's a bitch. Apollo Crews? Also ascended to Bitchalla. Shinsuke's been around for a minute now, but this is genuinely the best he's been presented since his debut. I'm digging it. He bottled it once again against an opponent with a f***ed back on PPV , then turned down a title shot from a dude who left Pittsburgh in a wheelchair. Dude is absolutely a Bitch. Just because those two are also bitches, doesn't make Shinsuke any less of a bitch for choking once again. I'm happy to see Shinsuke in a prominent role on TV. And he's a heel, heel's are sometimes supposed to seem like bitches. Just my two cents. But I get it, I understand why people want to see him outside of the WWE bubble, too. I just think it's nice to see the guy motivated again and think that being a dangerous challenger is a perfectly fine role for the guy.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
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Post by tirtefaa on Sept 5, 2023 9:17:32 GMT -5
I don't think WWE hated Roddy Piper, or Jake Roberts, or Scott Hall, or (if we're not counting the time he bought the championship from Andre) Ted Dibiase. As much as it might suck when your guy doesn't hold the top belt, I think it adds to the allure of the championship that some of the best wrestlers ever came super-close but never actually attained it. 100% He's also in the rare group of guys who won the Rumble who haven't won the title.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
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Post by Nosnorb on Sept 5, 2023 9:27:40 GMT -5
He bottled it once again against an opponent with a f***ed back on PPV , then turned down a title shot from a dude who left Pittsburgh in a wheelchair. Dude is absolutely a Bitch. Just because those two are also bitches, doesn't make Shinsuke any less of a bitch for choking once again. I'm happy to see Shinsuke in a prominent role on TV. And he's a heel, heel's are sometimes supposed to seem like bitches. Just my two cents. But I get it, I understand why people want to see him outside of the WWE bubble, too. I just think it's nice to see the guy motivated again and think that being a dangerous challenger is a perfectly fine role for the guy. While it is good to see Nakamura on TV and in the Main Event angle of Raw, and dude absolutely can work as a heel, just that at present, the dangerous challenger aspect is somewhat undercut in that Shinsuke hasn't been able to win the big one, and that he actually showed mercy last night by refusing a title match against Rollins when there might not be a better time. I get "wrestling on my time", but doing that then kind of goes against Nakamura being ruthless.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Sept 5, 2023 10:11:41 GMT -5
I'm happy to see Shinsuke in a prominent role on TV. And he's a heel, heel's are sometimes supposed to seem like bitches. Just my two cents. But I get it, I understand why people want to see him outside of the WWE bubble, too. I just think it's nice to see the guy motivated again and think that being a dangerous challenger is a perfectly fine role for the guy. While it is good to see Nakamura on TV and in the Main Event angle of Raw, and dude absolutely can work as a heel, just that at present, the dangerous challenger aspect is somewhat undercut in that Shinsuke hasn't been able to win the big one, and that he actually showed mercy last night by refusing a title match against Rollins when there might not be a better time. I get "wrestling on my time", but doing that then kind of goes against Nakamura being ruthless. I hear you. I want to see where it goes and if the idea is that Shinsuke is ruthless, that means he's dangerous in the ring and calculating outside of it, too. He's worn down Seth physically, now he's trying to wear him down mentally. That's how I took it, but I also understand how others might not see it that way.
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Post by HIM on Sept 5, 2023 10:39:50 GMT -5
Man, I sometimes wonder if I just have a different definition of "ascending to Bitchalla" than others. Know who's a total bitch? Riddick Moss, who just a few months ago was at least mixing it up on main roster TV with folks. Now he can barely make it to Main Event and when he does, he loses. That's a bitch. Apollo Crews? Also ascended to Bitchalla. Shinsuke's been around for a minute now, but this is genuinely the best he's been presented since his debut. I'm digging it. People ruined the word "bitch" on this site.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 5, 2023 10:59:28 GMT -5
I don't think Shinsuke wants the belt.
He has surfing and water towers, is getting paid, and doesn't have to get his brain beaten in my Japanese Strong Style.
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Post by clc on Sept 5, 2023 11:33:23 GMT -5
If they were going to have this as a multi-match feud, they should have saved the "bad back" for the rematch. Shin fights a good fight, but comes up short. It's during the match where Shin realizes Seth has a bad back. For the rematch, Shin does the "I now know your weakness" promos. This will give us reason to think the rematch might end differently.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2023 14:13:25 GMT -5
I'm really happy we're beginning to push back on calling everyone a bitch on this forum. It's been an eye-rolling phrase for me for awhile. Someone will get beat down once having never lost clean in their whole run in the company and be called a bitch lol. It seemed like a race to the bottom to be the first to proclaim anyone and everyone a bitch.
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Post by sarkerpolseng on Sept 5, 2023 14:20:38 GMT -5
WWE pays Shinsuke Nakamura very well. Sometimes that is enough for people to want to stay.
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