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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Mar 26, 2024 21:10:50 GMT -5
They gotta fix this shit if you gonna keep doing it, lmao. Take LOST his last big singles match, no bullshit. How is he now in line for a title match because he beat Medium “Bulge” McGraw on Rampage?? There’s a reason college football rankings value strength of schedule and margin of victory. Losing a big bout decisively means more than beating a couple underneath guys that should be lay ups in theory. And you could have still gotten the rankings over with this match! “If Swerve wins, he’ll all but be locked into the #1 spot but Take, while not quite at the top of the ladder, could easily land himself a top 3 spot with a win here” and you didn’t devalue your #1 spot but no. Just f***ing call it a #1 contender’s match 😭😭😭 He still has wins over Darby and Jericho plus Omega going back to last year. And you could argue that his loss to Will almost elevates him given how good he looked (which is a thing in the UFC, it's not just winning and losing, it's how you look). And in a world where he does beat Swerve, he'd probably deserve a title shot.
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Post by Cyno on Mar 26, 2024 21:11:47 GMT -5
They gotta fix this shit if you gonna keep doing it, lmao. Take LOST his last big singles match, no bullshit. How is he now in line for a title match because he beat Medium “Bulge” McGraw on Rampage?? There’s a reason college football rankings value strength of schedule and margin of victory. Losing a big bout decisively means more than beating a couple underneath guys that should be lay ups in theory. And you could have still gotten the rankings over with this match! “If Swerve wins, he’ll all but be locked into the #1 spot but Take, while not quite at the top of the ladder, could easily land himself a top 3 spot with a win here” and you didn’t devalue your #1 spot but no. Just f***ing call it a #1 contender’s match 😭😭😭 Oh yes. Model it after the completely uncontroversial, up-and-up ranking system that is college football. What a great idea.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 26, 2024 23:49:57 GMT -5
They gotta fix this shit if you gonna keep doing it, lmao. Take LOST his last big singles match, no bullshit. How is he now in line for a title match because he beat Medium “Bulge” McGraw on Rampage?? There’s a reason college football rankings value strength of schedule and margin of victory. Losing a big bout decisively means more than beating a couple underneath guys that should be lay ups in theory. And you could have still gotten the rankings over with this match! “If Swerve wins, he’ll all but be locked into the #1 spot but Take, while not quite at the top of the ladder, could easily land himself a top 3 spot with a win here” and you didn’t devalue your #1 spot but no. Just f***ing call it a #1 contender’s match 😭😭😭 Your criticism of the ranking system makes zero sense when you're trying to say NCAA Ranking Systems aren't complete f***ing horseshit lmfao Takeshita lost to will but has beaten Darby, Jericho Komander, and Rocky Romero between all of that. Sorry you don't value a win on Rampage and deem Rampage a meaningless show, that's your problem given AEW's treated the show well for months now, and this is no different The more matches you have and win, the better you look, and when your one loss is considered a five star bout vs Ospreay, that's not a knock on the guy or the rankings in the slightest I agree with other users here that it's tiresome discussion, people conflate these to mean the biggest deal in the world or look for any continuity error they can find, it's just like the ratings discourse it never feels like it's coming from a genuine place just "AEW's doing a thing I think sucks so they should do it THIS way" when the thing they're doing makes sense, especially again, if you're gonna say the NCAA RANKINGS are a bastion of logic...
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mystermystery
Dennis Stamp
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Post by mystermystery on Mar 27, 2024 19:33:37 GMT -5
I really did like the ranking system, but the discussion around it is tiresome. Some people seem to think it should work exactly the same as pro sports and be mathematically sound, others are more willing to go with the rankings being kayfabe and don't mind if they're smudged a little, and nobody seems to agree which is best. People do overthink the hell of out it a lot and it’s one of those things I get and should be ironed out but on the other hand, you can storyline justify some stuff rather than keep grounded in doing it. And then there’s people who are like “Why are we counting other shows?!” and it’s like “Well, because the people involved want you to watch them and have them be important?”. If they didn’t count, then they might as well not exist. Right? I'm basically going to agree with you and rewrite your points but longer...sorry? Anyway, oddly enough, baseball games that are only played on the radio still count towards the season record. I mean, if we want to pick and choose what factoids to pick for the AEW Rankings the answer is "The more convenient one for building storylines." Should matches on every show count? Yeah, man. Why wouldn't they? No one show should weigh heavier than the others. That's not how any of this should work. Should matches have "quality" modifiers. Yeah, man. Even if you lose, if it's one of the best wrestlers in the world, it shouldn't sink you lower than someone building a winning streak over midcarders. Should rankings have "quantity" modifiers. Workhorses get more attention. Perhaps a storyline opportunity to be middle of the rankings in line for a match against the number 1 guy....or, get this...just yes in general if you can tell a story good enough with it. I also like the "title eliminator" matches they'll throw on where someone with a little momentum who isn't ranked can get the "beat them once and next time the title's on the line" chance. Should a contender who loses their title match drop off the rankings until they can earn their way back? If it makes sense for the next storyline. Should the rankings measure monthly with a mix of historical record? Yes. Because. Storylines. The end of the day is they get to post up a note with a list of wrestlers on it and you know they're the ones most likely involved in the main stories for that month.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by markymark on Mar 27, 2024 22:03:10 GMT -5
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 27, 2024 22:07:34 GMT -5
What I'm most curious about here is how we get to what I assume is Toni vs Rosa vs Deonna, I assume Deonna needs another win or two, Rosa's already there. They're keeping Deeb warm too
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ayumidah
Wade Wilson
The ace-iest bi you'll ever meet
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Post by ayumidah on Mar 27, 2024 22:12:13 GMT -5
Orange being #2 is interesting.
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Post by daaave on Mar 28, 2024 2:35:16 GMT -5
Wait so Bullet Club Gold are now officially called the Bang Bang Gang?
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Moppy
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,198
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Post by Moppy on Mar 28, 2024 4:51:35 GMT -5
Wait so Bullet Club Gold are now officially called the Bang Bang Gang? I’m glad I wasn’t the only one to notice that lol Though maybe that’s the name for this specific White/Gunns trio without Juice? Like a House of Black/Kings of the Black Throne situation.
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clifford
King Koopa
Shingo Takagi stan
Posts: 10,679
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Post by clifford on Mar 28, 2024 5:38:55 GMT -5
Doing it every few weeks/once a month makes much more sense and hamstrings them way less in the booking than the weekly rankings used to. Wait so Bullet Club Gold are now officially called the Bang Bang Gang? Would be a great call, tbh. The theme is sick, the group is over, and you get away from all the NJPW Bullet Club connotations
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Mar 28, 2024 8:06:14 GMT -5
People do overthink the hell of out it a lot and it’s one of those things I get and should be ironed out but on the other hand, you can storyline justify some stuff rather than keep grounded in doing it. And then there’s people who are like “Why are we counting other shows?!” and it’s like “Well, because the people involved want you to watch them and have them be important?”. If they didn’t count, then they might as well not exist. Right? I'm basically going to agree with you and rewrite your points but longer...sorry? Anyway, oddly enough, baseball games that are only played on the radio still count towards the season record. I mean, if we want to pick and choose what factoids to pick for the AEW Rankings the answer is "The more convenient one for building storylines." Should matches on every show count? Yeah, man. Why wouldn't they? No one show should weigh heavier than the others. That's not how any of this should work. Should matches have "quality" modifiers. Yeah, man. Even if you lose, if it's one of the best wrestlers in the world, it shouldn't sink you lower than someone building a winning streak over midcarders. Should rankings have "quantity" modifiers. Workhorses get more attention. Perhaps a storyline opportunity to be middle of the rankings in line for a match against the number 1 guy....or, get this...just yes in general if you can tell a story good enough with it. I also like the "title eliminator" matches they'll throw on where someone with a little momentum who isn't ranked can get the "beat them once and next time the title's on the line" chance. Should a contender who loses their title match drop off the rankings until they can earn their way back? If it makes sense for the next storyline. Should the rankings measure monthly with a mix of historical record? Yes. Because. Storylines. The end of the day is they get to post up a note with a list of wrestlers on it and you know they're the ones most likely involved in the main stories for that month. As someone who does a deep wrestling rankings project for WWE’s televised matches, all I’ve ever tried to do was take a concept from real sport and apply it around factors in wrestling matches that we fans say are important to us. Things like the shows where the matches happen, the championships the matches are for, whether it’s the main event or not, which person gets and/or takes the fall, etc.
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dbsot
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 588
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Post by dbsot on Mar 28, 2024 8:36:51 GMT -5
I know TK is a stats nerd, but I get more confused every time they release the rankings. They seemed to be based on the wrestlers' 2024 overall records and not monthly or PPV cycle. Otherwise, these make no sense at all. - Orange Cassidy hasn't had a singles match since Revolution and he lost clean there. - Jon Moxley hasn't had a match since March 3rd. - Ospreay has beaten Takeshita, Fletcher and Shibata in the past month. How is he behind OC and Moxley? When he beats Danielson, wouldn't that immediately make him the #1 ranked wrestler? - Willow just won a 4-way match tonight and beat Riho a couple weeks ago. How is she behind Mariah May and Thunder Rosa? May has two singles wins (including this week's Rampage) in March. Rosa hasn't had a singles match since Feb 28th. - Serena Deeb has not wrestled since Feb 24th - The tag rankings should have BCC at the top. I can understand Best Friends #2 though since they beat the ROH Tag champs. How is Bill/Ricky ahead of FTR though? - Surprisingly, I don't have an issue with the trios rankings. When BCC/Shibata win on Collision, they will like jump to #2, which is weird since they should be #1 in the tag rankings.
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Post by Cyno on Mar 28, 2024 9:35:07 GMT -5
Wait so Bullet Club Gold are now officially called the Bang Bang Gang? Bang Bang Gang is the specific team of the Gunns and White while BCG is the overall stable. Though I do wonder if NJPW is taking away BC branding from partner promotions since Ace and Bey in TNA apparently stopped coming out wearing BC stuff recently.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,697
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Post by lucas_lee on Mar 28, 2024 10:08:14 GMT -5
I know TK is a stats nerd, but I get more confused every time they release the rankings. They seemed to be based on the wrestlers' 2024 overall records and not monthly or PPV cycle. Otherwise, these make no sense at all. - Orange Cassidy hasn't had a singles match since Revolution and he lost clean there. - Jon Moxley hasn't had a match since March 3rd. - Ospreay has beaten Takeshita, Fletcher and Shibata in the past month. How is he behind OC and Moxley? When he beats Danielson, wouldn't that immediately make him the #1 ranked wrestler? - Willow just won a 4-way match tonight and beat Riho a couple weeks ago. How is she behind Mariah May and Thunder Rosa? May has two singles wins (including this week's Rampage) in March. Rosa hasn't had a singles match since Feb 28th. - Serena Deeb has not wrestled since Feb 24th - The tag rankings should have BCC at the top. I can understand Best Friends #2 though since they beat the ROH Tag champs. How is Bill/Ricky ahead of FTR though? - Surprisingly, I don't have an issue with the trios rankings. When BCC/Shibata win on Collision, they will like jump to #2, which is weird since they should be #1 in the tag rankings. It's also weird they have 2024 records for some but then have overall records for others.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Mar 28, 2024 11:00:46 GMT -5
They gotta fix this shit if you gonna keep doing it, lmao. Take LOST his last big singles match, no bullshit. How is he now in line for a title match because he beat Medium “Bulge” McGraw on Rampage?? There’s a reason college football rankings value strength of schedule and margin of victory. Losing a big bout decisively means more than beating a couple underneath guys that should be lay ups in theory. And you could have still gotten the rankings over with this match! “If Swerve wins, he’ll all but be locked into the #1 spot but Take, while not quite at the top of the ladder, could easily land himself a top 3 spot with a win here” and you didn’t devalue your #1 spot but no. Just f***ing call it a #1 contender’s match 😭😭😭 Oh yes. Model it after the completely uncontroversial, up-and-up ranking system that is college football. What a great idea. Oh, I wanna be clear, the college rankings system is pretty f***ed (for a million different reasons) but I also really don't see how that really counteracts the point that this ranking system is so busted, the motherf***er who created it just straight up forgot about it for months at a time??? Like, I'm not trying to be funny, how is this conducive to a conversation? Suggesting something is flawed and getting a bunch of quotes of "WELL, THAT WON'T WORK" to any alternatives with no actual acknowledgement of how a current system is straight up not working? And it happens all the time over here on this board. Yeah, college football rankings are flawed. They're also a massive deal to the point where the final four selection gets it's own DAY, damn near. Ask the fans that hop on Twitter furious about their team's placement how much it matters. It has an air of importance. Within this (admittedly confusing and vague) system, it (almost by default) has legitimacy, even as it makes nonsensical decisions. Meanwhile, AEW has a ranking system and you can just go up to champions, talk a little shit, get a title match! Beat Mike Penis, Joe Blow, and Baby McGuiness (a miniature version of Nigel McGuiness only available on Rampage)? Get ready for a #1 ranking match! These rankings are skeptical AND serve no purpose other than lame window dressing. So, what are we actually arguing about here??? Defending a system so shitty, TK only remembers between his coke binges??? We gotta grab the plot here.
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Post by Doo Doo is Worse Than WCW 2000 on Mar 28, 2024 11:02:52 GMT -5
Oh yes. Model it after the completely uncontroversial, up-and-up ranking system that is college football. What a great idea. Oh, I wanna be clear, the college rankings system is pretty f***ed (for a million different reasons) but I also really don't see how that really counteracts the point that this ranking system is so busted, the motherf***er who created it just straight up forgot about it for months at a time??? Like, I'm not trying to be funny, how is this conducive to a conversation? Suggesting something is flawed and getting a bunch of quotes of "WELL, THAT WON'T WORK" to any alternatives with no actual acknowledgement of how a current system is straight up not working? And it happens all the time over here on this board. Yeah, college football rankings are flawed. They're also a massive deal to the point where the final four selection gets it's own DAY, damn near. Ask the fans that hop on Twitter furious about their team's placement how much it matters. It has an air of importance. Within this (admittedly confusing and vague) system, it (almost by default) has legitimacy, even as it makes nonsensical decisions. Meanwhile, AEW has a ranking system and you can just go up to champions, talk a little shit, get a title match! Beat Mike Penis, Joe Blow, and Baby McGuiness (a miniature version of Nigel McGuiness only available on Rampage)? Get ready for a #1 ranking match! These rankings are skeptical AND serve no purpose other than lame window dressing. So, what are we actually arguing about here??? Defending a system so shitty, TK only remembers between his coke binges??? We gotta grab the plot here. Man, I need baby McGuiness to be a thing now.
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Post by eJm on Mar 28, 2024 11:04:22 GMT -5
These rankings are skeptical AND serve no purpose other than lame window dressing. So, what are we actually arguing about here??? Defending a system so shitty, TK only remembers between his coke binges??? We gotta grab the plot here. I mean, not being funny, but you do realize that sort of stuff contributes the same amount, right? Because all that does it make nobody want to add anything to discussions which goes against the point.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Mar 28, 2024 11:06:41 GMT -5
They gotta fix this shit if you gonna keep doing it, lmao. Take LOST his last big singles match, no bullshit. How is he now in line for a title match because he beat Medium “Bulge” McGraw on Rampage?? There’s a reason college football rankings value strength of schedule and margin of victory. Losing a big bout decisively means more than beating a couple underneath guys that should be lay ups in theory. And you could have still gotten the rankings over with this match! “If Swerve wins, he’ll all but be locked into the #1 spot but Take, while not quite at the top of the ladder, could easily land himself a top 3 spot with a win here” and you didn’t devalue your #1 spot but no. Just f***ing call it a #1 contender’s match 😭😭😭 He still has wins over Darby and Jericho plus Omega going back to last year. And you could argue that his loss to Will almost elevates him given how good he looked ( which is a thing in the UFC, it's not just winning and losing, it's how you look). And in a world where he does beat Swerve, he'd probably deserve a title shot. Just wanna say, this is objectively not true, by and large. Unless you'd like to provide a modern example? When you lose in the UFC, at most, you kinda just stay put assuming nobody got hurt above you. When guys get rewarded after an L, it's not because they put up a good fight, lmao. It's because the guys who theoretically would be ahead of them aren't available/the money isn't right/they are arguing with Dana. It's the "Luigi wins" of sports. You literally failed upwards by no work of your own. And even by your own logic, Will Osprey is f***ing undefeated AND has beaten two of those dudes. It really should have been him that was next up, not Take. And if you were gonna position Take in this spot, it's almost like you have a f***ing army of warm bodies with actual name value to establish this guy instead of just going by the "I like him so he's next up" logic. This shit is FAKE. You can put Take in the spot Will Osprey is in and then it would have been fine to have a #1 rankings match. But you can't keep doing goofy shit like this and be surprised when the interest level in these matches are barely warmer than a bowl of piss.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,077
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Mar 28, 2024 11:07:42 GMT -5
Oh yes. Model it after the completely uncontroversial, up-and-up ranking system that is college football. What a great idea. Oh, I wanna be clear, the college rankings system is pretty f***ed (for a million different reasons) but I also really don't see how that really counteracts the point that this ranking system is so busted, the motherf***er who created it just straight up forgot about it for months at a time??? Like, I'm not trying to be funny, how is this conducive to a conversation? Suggesting something is flawed and getting a bunch of quotes of "WELL, THAT WON'T WORK" to any alternatives with no actual acknowledgement of how a current system is straight up not working? And it happens all the time over here on this board. Yeah, college football rankings are flawed. They're also a massive deal to the point where the final four selection gets it's own DAY, damn near. Ask the fans that hop on Twitter furious about their team's placement how much it matters. It has an air of importance. Within this (admittedly confusing and vague) system, it (almost by default) has legitimacy, even as it makes nonsensical decisions. Meanwhile, AEW has a ranking system and you can just go up to champions, talk a little shit, get a title match! Beat Mike Penis, Joe Blow, and Baby McGuiness (a miniature version of Nigel McGuiness only available on Rampage)? Get ready for a #1 ranking match! These rankings are skeptical AND serve no purpose other than lame window dressing. So, what are we actually arguing about here??? Defending a system so shitty, TK only remembers between his coke binges??? We gotta grab the plot here. Not to be too pedantic but it was only a little over a month since the last ranking. Considering these were supposed to be monthly, I wouldn't be too harsh on the timing.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Mar 28, 2024 11:09:17 GMT -5
These rankings are skeptical AND serve no purpose other than lame window dressing. So, what are we actually arguing about here??? Defending a system so shitty, TK only remembers between his coke binges??? We gotta grab the plot here. I mean, not being funny, but you do realize that sort of stuff contributes the same amount, right? Because all that does it make nobody want to add anything to discussions which goes against the point. I got time today so f*** it, how so? When I'm making a definitive point ("damn, these rankings are bad, here's some ways to fix it") and the response is just basically "nuh uh"...well, ok, but can I get a little more substance from the argument that you felt strongly enough to lean into? It really is ok to acknowledge that maybe something isn't working and needs to be adjusted.
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