Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 26, 2024 10:23:22 GMT -5
The stuff McMahon and his associates are accused of makes Ric Flair come off like a saint in comparison. Like, Vince is in his own unique category of shittiness here. Literally. |
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jan 26, 2024 10:23:58 GMT -5
To be clear Brock isn't really the target of the suit. There's no charges against him. He's kinda a morally ambiguous bystander/prop in this case Soliciting pee videos from the victim is not "morally ambiguous". Also I doubt Vince would DIRECTLY offer Brock that kind of stuff as a "resign bonus" if there wasnt evidence to Vince that he had no issue. |
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Jan 26, 2024 10:30:02 GMT -5
Like the majority of rape related cases, it's about power.
Vince is a billionaire, Brock isn't exactly broke either, either of them could have hired the most high class expensive escort in the world.
But Vince wanted to pimp out and control this poor woman to show her, and others in his inner circle, that he owned her.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 26, 2024 10:31:04 GMT -5
The stuff McMahon and his associates are accused of makes Ric Flair come off like a saint in comparison. Like, Vince is in his own unique category of shittiness here. More than that, the issue brought up here is not about the individuals involved so much as the actual company itself; obviously Vince and Laurenitis are trash and Vince must go if even a fraction of this stuff is true (he should go, regardless), but if the company at large and people currently in positions of authority in any way enabled this stuff, whether directly or simply by trying to brush it aside/turn a blind eye in some way, that's a different conversation and one that could leave some talent feeling disgusted enough that they might opt out. I'm not saying they will, mind; these folks still need to make a living, still have families to raise, still undoubtedly care about a lot of their coworkers, etc., so I'm not one to really judge labor when it's in a situation like this. |
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cosmo
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Post by cosmo on Jan 26, 2024 10:33:30 GMT -5
Wondering what Netflix thinks of all this. Yes, it happened before they got involved, but this is what they're saddled with now. Ironically this has all the makings of a classic Netflix multipart documentary Sounds like this could be an entire season of Dark Side of the Ring too. |
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Post by markymark on Jan 26, 2024 10:46:08 GMT -5
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jan 26, 2024 10:46:58 GMT -5
The stuff McMahon and his associates are accused of makes Ric Flair come off like a saint in comparison. Like, Vince is in his own unique category of shittiness here. More than that, the issue brought up here is not about the individuals involved so much as the actual company itself; obviously Vince and Laurenitis are trash and Vince must go if even a fraction of this stuff is true (he should go, regardless), but if the company at large and people currently in positions of authority in any way enabled this stuff, whether directly or simply by trying to brush it aside/turn a blind eye in some way, that's a different conversation and one that could leave some talent feeling disgusted enough that they might opt out. I'm not saying they will, mind; these folks still need to make a living, still have families to raise, still undoubtedly care about a lot of their coworkers, etc., so I'm not one to really judge labor when it's in a situation like this. part of the reason I don't like the " need to make a living" argument is that guys on top are making millions and would easily earn a shitlload of money anywhere else wrestling related.which are also the ones that would have more impact. That at the end of day is just selfish greed Lower card guys? Yeh they might feel they don't have much of a choice. |
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 26, 2024 10:48:38 GMT -5
I wasn't attempting to turn it into a company v company war. I enjoy both for the most part and despise the tribalism that exists between both sets of fans. All I was saying was if I was a part of that roster/company, I'd be seriously thinking of handing my notice in. The culture of abuse has clearly been present at management level for years and could potentially still be lingering. I wouldn't want to spend one minute more there personally given some still there in positions of power most likely had knowledge of a lot of this. I was going to ask myself, "Why can't we?" The fact of the matter is that we don't know how far out on the web of WWE this poison sits. We don't know how many of the guys in the locker room received photo or video from Vince of his victims or to what end Vince might have been sending them out. Given Vince's demonstrated willingness to watch and his documented fetishization of men's parts, we don't know if it was just women he was forcing into these situations or if he was using the women under his control (because, let's face it, what choice did they have?) as contract considerations or, indeed, to create blackmail for some of the lads in the locker room. As much as we may dump on Tony Khan here, I don't think there's any question of who I'd trust in an office setting. As for any of the talents who might have either benefitted from this system or who might have suffered under it, I'd already suggested that TKO/WWE might want to show some measure of atonement by opening the door for those with qualms about continuing to work with such a company as WWE to walk out without penalty. |
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Jan 26, 2024 10:50:01 GMT -5
More than that, the issue brought up here is not about the individuals involved so much as the actual company itself; obviously Vince and Laurenitis are trash and Vince must go if even a fraction of this stuff is true (he should go, regardless), but if the company at large and people currently in positions of authority in any way enabled this stuff, whether directly or simply by trying to brush it aside/turn a blind eye in some way, that's a different conversation and one that could leave some talent feeling disgusted enough that they might opt out. I'm not saying they will, mind; these folks still need to make a living, still have families to raise, still undoubtedly care about a lot of their coworkers, etc., so I'm not one to really judge labor when it's in a situation like this. part of the reason I don't like the " need to make a living" argument is that guys on top are making millions and would easily earn a shitlload of money anywhere else wrestling related.which are also the ones that would have more impact. That at the end of day is just selfish greed Lower card guys? Yeh they might feel they don't have much of a choice. In fairness these are careers that can and have ended very suddenly and they aren't insured (to my knowledge anyway). I have nothing more to add on Vince than echoing others thoughts, get him away from the company as soon as is feasibly possible and hopefully any criminal activity committed by Vince or anyone else associated with this can be suitably dealt with too. |
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jan 26, 2024 10:50:46 GMT -5
I wasn't attempting to turn it into a company v company war. I enjoy both for the most part and despise the tribalism that exists between both sets of fans. All I was saying was if I was a part of that roster/company, I'd be seriously thinking of handing my notice in. The culture of abuse has clearly been present at management level for years and could potentially still be lingering. I wouldn't want to spend one minute more there personally given some still there in positions of power most likely had knowledge of a lot of this. I was going to ask myself, "Why can't we?" The fact of the matter is that we don't know how far out on the web of WWE this poison sits. We don't know how many of the guys in the locker room received photo or video from Vince of his victims or to what end Vince might have been sending them out. Given Vince's demonstrated willingness to watch and his documented fetishization of men's parts, we don't know if it was just women he was forcing into these situations or if he was using the women under his control (because, let's face it, what choice did they have?) as contract considerations or, indeed, to create blackmail for some of the lads in the locker room. As much as we may dump on Tony Khan here, I don't think there's any question of who I'd trust in an office setting. As for any of the talents who might have either benefitted from this system or who might have suffered under it, I'd already suggested that TKO/WWE might want to show some measure of atonement by opening the door for those with qualms about continuing to work with such a company as WWE to walk out without penalty. TKO will go nowhere near the talent even to ask questions ,last thing they want to is discover any of their moneymaker got involved like Brock, they aren't even gonna entertain the idea |
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Post by joeiscool on Jan 26, 2024 10:51:56 GMT -5
Soliciting pee videos from the victim is not "morally ambiguous". Also I doubt Vince would DIRECTLY offer Brock that kind of stuff as a "resign bonus" if there wasnt evidence to Vince that he had no issue. I only said ambiguous because I do think how you view Brock's role in all of this is basically what you feel about certain topics... I don't think anyone is accusing him of sexual assault, or using force to make her do anything. What they are accusing him of is infidelity, weird sexual fetishes', and maybe prostitution. While I personally would draw the line at infidelity, I do know some reasonable people who would defend his right to all three if the person is consenting. |
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jan 26, 2024 10:52:15 GMT -5
part of the reason I don't like the " need to make a living" argument is that guys on top are making millions and would easily earn a shitlload of money anywhere else wrestling related.which are also the ones that would have more impact. That at the end of day is just selfish greed Lower card guys? Yeh they might feel they don't have much of a choice. In fairness these are careers that can and have ended very suddenly and they aren't insured (to my knowledge anyway). and they would still be set for life ,living of royalties and millions they already made ( see Austin). While still making surprise legend appearencea |
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 26, 2024 11:02:11 GMT -5
Also I doubt Vince would DIRECTLY offer Brock that kind of stuff as a "resign bonus" if there wasnt evidence to Vince that he had no issue. I only said ambiguous because I do think how you view Brock's role in all of this is basically what you feel about certain topics... I don't think anyone is accusing him of sexual assault, or using force to make her do anything. What they are accusing him of is infidelity, weird sexual fetishes', and maybe prostitution. While I personally would draw the line at infidelity, I do know some reasonable people who would defend his right to all three if the person is consenting. She wasn't. |
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 26, 2024 11:02:55 GMT -5
In fairness these are careers that can and have ended very suddenly and they aren't insured (to my knowledge anyway). and they would still be set for life ,living of royalties and millions they already made ( see Austin). While still making surprise legend appearencea Very, very few of them are making that kind of money; WWE's spending on talent relative to company revenues is pretty damned low, always has been. Top of the card cashes in, sure, but the bulk of the roster isn't making the kind of money that you can just put into a blind trust and know your kids will be taken care of if you get released or, worse, suddenly get paralyzed in a botched spot tomorrow. Plus, those royalties ain't what they used to be since the Network era began. Wrestling is an unforgiving industry, talent puts their bodies through hell for it, they deserve to cash in. It would be nice if the guys and gals who were set for life could make a big gesture, but I still don't like making it their responsibility to do so. |
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jan 26, 2024 11:04:03 GMT -5
Finally made the news here on CBC.com
This isn't something he's just going to be able to brush past. Actual media juggernauts outside the weird carny wrestling circle are shouting about it for all to see now.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 26, 2024 11:06:05 GMT -5
and they would still be set for life ,living of royalties and millions they already made ( see Austin). While still making surprise legend appearencea Very, very few of them are making that kind of money; WWE's spending on talent relative to company revenues is pretty damned low, always has been. Top of the card cashes in, sure, but the bulk of the roster isn't making the kind of money that you can just put into a blind trust and know your kids will be taken care of if you get released or, worse, suddenly get paralyzed in a botched spot tomorrow. Plus, those royalties ain't what they used to be since the Network era began. Wrestling is an unforgiving industry, talent puts their bodies through hell for it, they deserve to cash in. It would be nice if the guys and gals who were set for life could make a big gesture, but I still don't like making it their responsibility to do so. I don't even think that the biggest stars would have to sacrifice that much. Whatever Endeavor execs that had no involvement with this, and those top stars, could create a new company out of WWE's ashes, without the Vince-shaped historical baggage that the name "WWE" has. |
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Totorob101
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Post by Totorob101 on Jan 26, 2024 11:07:15 GMT -5
I feel horrible for the women, the amount of harassment over the years they must have dealt with is awful to fathom. I know the divas era of WWE isn't looked upon as great but man they were all talented women who did their best despite probably being mocked and harassed so much,I really have so much respect for them and all women in the history of WWE (bar moolah and Linda), I hope they know many of us admire them and respect them all.
Vince can go to hell.
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Post by Legion on Jan 26, 2024 11:08:53 GMT -5
Probably for their own good. At the moment, legally, this is all just allegations. No one has been found guilty of anything and if he some how gets off, or this does turn out to be a situation different to how it appears, they'll want no one legally liable for anything more than the company may already be. |
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jan 26, 2024 11:09:28 GMT -5
Very, very few of them are making that kind of money; WWE's spending on talent relative to company revenues is pretty damned low, always has been. Top of the card cashes in, sure, but the bulk of the roster isn't making the kind of money that you can just put into a blind trust and know your kids will be taken care of if you get released or, worse, suddenly get paralyzed in a botched spot tomorrow. Plus, those royalties ain't what they used to be since the Network era began. Wrestling is an unforgiving industry, talent puts their bodies through hell for it, they deserve to cash in. It would be nice if the guys and gals who were set for life could make a big gesture, but I still don't like making it their responsibility to do so. I don't even think that the biggest stars would have to sacrifice that much. Whatever Endeavor execs that had no involvement with this, and those top stars, could create a new company out of WWE's ashes, without the Vince-shaped historical baggage that the name "WWE" has. If they wanted to it would be very easy to hollow out WWE and rebrand. Especially if the only wrestler named this far is Brock. |
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Post by markymark on Jan 26, 2024 11:10:05 GMT -5
Finally made the news here on CBC.com This isn't something he's just going to be able to brush past. Actual media juggernauts outside the weird carny wrestling circle are shouting about it for all to see now.
It also made it on ESPN, the more mainstream outlets pick up the news, the more pressure will be on TKO.
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