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Post by SirLucas on Feb 19, 2024 18:58:34 GMT -5
I don't remember there being any build or hinting to Eric Bischoff turning heel and aligning with the nWo. Contrast that with Vince McMahon. The Mr. McMahon heel turn had been slowly brewing since the fall of 1997. Austin was defying authority every chance he could. He gave stunners to referees, Commissioner Slaughter, Jim Ross, Jerry Lawler, and of course Vince himself. Austin defied the doctor's orders of stepping back in the ring too soon. He threw the Intercontinental title in the river. Austin interrupted the Mike Tyson announcement. Every defiant action from Austin over the course of those months continued to aggravate McMahon until McMahon finally snapped and the Mr. McMahon heel authority figure was born.
It felt quite the opposite with the Eric Bischoff's transition. At the time, Eric was the babyface play-by-play guy on Nitro. Besides the credits at the end of each pay-per-view, it wasn't even acknowledged on air that Eric Bischoff was the executive vice president of the company. To the average fan, he was just an announcer. But then on the go-home Nitro for World War 3 1996, Piper is in the ring and calls out Bischoff for being part of the nWo. It was completely out of left field. But the execution of it seemed awkward. The pacing of it was strange. It wasn't like they were building towards this big heel turn. Did anybody else feel the same way? The Bischoff turn came off more confusing than shocking.
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Gunhaver
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Post by Gunhaver on Feb 19, 2024 19:29:02 GMT -5
I think a lot of the Austin defiance leading to the turn is revisionism to an extent. The turn in IMO is the result of Montreal. In regards to Eric, there wasn't really a build but there wasn't supposed to be. It relied on the shock fator more than anything else.
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Post by Zombie Mod is not a ghoul. on Feb 19, 2024 19:32:25 GMT -5
hadn't the nwo beat the crap out of him a couple of times on nitro so he decided "the only way to save my ass was to join them" or did it get retconned into him being behind the forming of the nwo?
it's been a while since I watched that time of wcw during a re-watch, I actually gave up on my last attempt as I got really annoyed with nitro being all about the nwo even when they weren't on screen.
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Feb 19, 2024 21:30:07 GMT -5
hadn't the nwo beat the crap out of him a couple of times on nitro so he decided "the only way to save my ass was to join them" or did it get retconned into him being behind the forming of the nwo? it's been a while since I watched that time of wcw during a re-watch, I actually gave up on my last attempt as I got really annoyed with nitro being all about the nwo even when they weren't on screen. There are hints but its subtle. I can't find the clip but Tenay, Schiavone and Bobby on Nitro during a segment are all speculating on Eric Bischoff's whereabouts. With Tony I believe saying he didn't see him at the office and Bobby saying he didn't see him either backstage. I wish I had the clip because it seems like a hint and it was before the turn. If you watch the segment where Hogan is bullying Eric into talking negative on Piper, you can hear a shift in Bischoff's voice compared to normal. Its almost like a different person coming out and saying those words was how he truly felt and not Hogan forcing him. |
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
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Post by cjh on Feb 19, 2024 21:47:02 GMT -5
hadn't the nwo beat the crap out of him a couple of times on nitro so he decided "the only way to save my ass was to join them" or did it get retconned into him being behind the forming of the nwo? it's been a while since I watched that time of wcw during a re-watch, I actually gave up on my last attempt as I got really annoyed with nitro being all about the nwo even when they weren't on screen. There are hints but its subtle. I can't find the clip but Tenay, Schiavone and Bobby on Nitro during a segment are all speculating on Eric Bischoff's whereabouts. With Tony I believe saying he didn't see him at the office and Bobby saying he didn't see him either backstage. I wish I had the clip because it seems like a hint and it was before the turn. If you watch the segment where Hogan is bullying Eric into talking negative on Piper, you can hear a shift in Bischoff's voice compared to normal. Its almost like a different person coming out and saying those words was how he truly felt and not Hogan forcing him. Also, the week before Bischoff officially joined the NWO, he had Tony Schiavone sub for him on Nitro but called into the show. He claimed he was visiting Piper's home to try and get the match with Hogan signed but was facing roadblocks from Piper's management. The next week, Piper revealed that Bischoff had lied and didn't actually visit his home. |
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Wardlow on Wardlow 54
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Post by Wardlow on Wardlow 54 on Feb 19, 2024 22:34:49 GMT -5
Yeah, I did a watch through of that time and there were hints. Another one not mentioned was Bischoff saying he was going to the hotel room where the nWo was partying. I forget the reason, but watching it with the benefit of hindsight, it pinged in my head instantly.
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Ben Wyatt
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Feb 20, 2024 7:54:43 GMT -5
hadn't the nwo beat the crap out of him a couple of times on nitro so he decided "the only way to save my ass was to join them" or did it get retconned into him being behind the forming of the nwo? it's been a while since I watched that time of wcw during a re-watch, I actually gave up on my last attempt as I got really annoyed with nitro being all about the nwo even when they weren't on screen. There are hints but its subtle. I can't find the clip but Tenay, Schiavone and Bobby on Nitro during a segment are all speculating on Eric Bischoff's whereabouts. With Tony I believe saying he didn't see him at the office and Bobby saying he didn't see him either backstage. I wish I had the clip because it seems like a hint and it was before the turn. If you watch the segment where Hogan is bullying Eric into talking negative on Piper, you can hear a shift in Bischoff's voice compared to normal. Its almost like a different person coming out and saying those words was how he truly felt and not Hogan forcing him. There was also a moment where Heenan and or Tony questioned how exactly the nWo kept getting their hands on WCW microphones and whatnot. And Zombie Mod: the week after he turned, Eric said he decided to join the nWo back in June, after Nash power bombed him off the stage. Something along the lines of "either being run over, or joining the force" |
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Post by chronocross on Feb 20, 2024 7:58:17 GMT -5
They were hints such as the night of Bash at the Beach, where Dusty & Tony speculated on Eric's whereabouts as he usually hosted the Main Event pre-show.
The next night Heenan asks Eric about it and he said he had to "handle some business" before quickly changing the subject.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Feb 20, 2024 8:26:51 GMT -5
I think the biggest clue was that Bischoff just looks like a heel. He can't help it, that's just how he naturally comes across.
Nobody looks at that smug grin and believes he's a face.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
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Post by tirtefaa on Feb 20, 2024 11:33:33 GMT -5
I actually really liked the reveal.
In wrestling, most of the time when someone turns heel, it's somewhat telegraphed with someone who does something dastardly, typically to an unsuspecting face.
In this case,Piper deduced that Bischoff was an nWo mole, and eventually Bischoff was like "you got me". Shows that faces can be smart from time to time.
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Post by Aceorton on Feb 20, 2024 13:41:03 GMT -5
I got a strong vibe at the time (and still believe today) that Bischoff knew the nWo would be big, but not the industry-changing "cool heels" they ended up being, where it felt like half of North America had an nWo shirt. Once the rocket took off, his desire to be in the cool club was more important than his turn 100% making sense.
Logically, if someone powerbombed me off a stage, I wouldn't shrug and decide to be their pal. And the bully that powerbombed me probably wouldn't want me to be. The only way for it to make sense would be if the nWo was openly using Bischoff and he was serving them out of fear. But that's not how it played out -- he looked like he loved it and those were his ride-or-die buddies.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Feb 20, 2024 14:22:01 GMT -5
hadn't the nwo beat the crap out of him a couple of times on nitro so he decided "the only way to save my ass was to join them" or did it get retconned into him being behind the forming of the nwo? it's been a while since I watched that time of wcw during a re-watch, I actually gave up on my last attempt as I got really annoyed with nitro being all about the nwo even when they weren't on screen. Off topic a bit, but I agree with this sentiment. The first 6-8 months of the NWO is horrible. They are way too overpowered and following the WCW product on a week to week basis was miserable. When I did a deep rewatch of everything about 10 years ago, it was even worse than I remembered. That being said, starting in early 1997 when it's revealed that Sting is anti-NWO, DDP rejects the NWO, The Giant turns back, and Luger, Piper, and the Horseman start getting booked stronger, WCW and the NWO are presented much more balanced and the show is phenomenal for the next year and change. |
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salz4life
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Post by salz4life on Feb 20, 2024 14:43:21 GMT -5
hadn't the nwo beat the crap out of him a couple of times on nitro so he decided "the only way to save my ass was to join them" or did it get retconned into him being behind the forming of the nwo? it's been a while since I watched that time of wcw during a re-watch, I actually gave up on my last attempt as I got really annoyed with nitro being all about the nwo even when they weren't on screen. There are hints but its subtle. I can't find the clip but Tenay, Schiavone and Bobby on Nitro during a segment are all speculating on Eric Bischoff's whereabouts. With Tony I believe saying he didn't see him at the office and Bobby saying he didn't see him either backstage. I wish I had the clip because it seems like a hint and it was before the turn. If you watch the segment where Hogan is bullying Eric into talking negative on Piper, you can hear a shift in Bischoff's voice compared to normal. Its almost like a different person coming out and saying those words was how he truly felt and not Hogan forcing him. I remember those subtle hints. They were very easy to overlook at the time, but in hindsight... |
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Post by Milkman Norm on Feb 20, 2024 14:52:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I did a watch through of that time and there were hints. Another one not mentioned was Bischoff saying he was going to the hotel room where the nWo was partying. I forget the reason, but watching it with the benefit of hindsight, it pinged in my head instantly. I think this was a weird case where they were doing or saying things on live TV that were not cleared by Turner and Eric Bischoff, EX.VP of WCW had to remedy the situation. Of course it worked in storyline too. |
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Squirrel Master
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Post by Squirrel Master on Feb 20, 2024 15:39:57 GMT -5
LL Cool J foreshadowed it in his song Cheesy Rat Blues “He was a nobody, who dreamed about being somebody, chief rocker at the party”
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Feb 20, 2024 16:13:42 GMT -5
hadn't the nwo beat the crap out of him a couple of times on nitro so he decided "the only way to save my ass was to join them" or did it get retconned into him being behind the forming of the nwo? it's been a while since I watched that time of wcw during a re-watch, I actually gave up on my last attempt as I got really annoyed with nitro being all about the nwo even when they weren't on screen. Off topic a bit, but I agree with this sentiment. The first 6-8 months of the NWO is horrible. They are way too overpowered and following the WCW product on a week to week basis was miserable. When I did a deep rewatch of everything about 10 years ago, it was even worse than I remembered. That being said, starting in early 1997 when it's revealed that Sting is anti-NWO, DDP rejects the NWO, The Giant turns back, and Luger, Piper, and the Horseman start getting booked stronger, WCW and the NWO are presented much more balanced and the show is phenomenal for the next year and change. First-year nWo was the original misery booking in how nearly every show at that time was just them kicking the babyfaces' asses. Though, I suppose in retrospect, those moments in 1997 like Sting's vengeance against the nWo, Lex Luger beating Hollywood Hogan for the title, and DDP telling the nWo where to shove it probably don't hit as hard as they did if there weren't those darkest hours beforehand. |
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Post by Rumble McSkirmish on Feb 20, 2024 17:28:21 GMT -5
There are hints but its subtle. I can't find the clip but Tenay, Schiavone and Bobby on Nitro during a segment are all speculating on Eric Bischoff's whereabouts. With Tony I believe saying he didn't see him at the office and Bobby saying he didn't see him either backstage. I wish I had the clip because it seems like a hint and it was before the turn. If you watch the segment where Hogan is bullying Eric into talking negative on Piper, you can hear a shift in Bischoff's voice compared to normal. Its almost like a different person coming out and saying those words was how he truly felt and not Hogan forcing him. Also, the week before Bischoff officially joined the NWO, he had Tony Schiavone sub for him on Nitro but called into the show. He claimed he was visiting Piper's home to try and get the match with Hogan signed but was facing roadblocks from Piper's management. The next week, Piper revealed that Bischoff had lied and didn't actually visit his home. I remember that segment when Piper kept repeating "The road to my home, was it straight or was it crooked?" over and over again like it was the ultimate gotcha! moment. |
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Post by bogussting on Feb 20, 2024 20:40:08 GMT -5
Also, the week before Bischoff officially joined the NWO, he had Tony Schiavone sub for him on Nitro but called into the show. He claimed he was visiting Piper's home to try and get the match with Hogan signed but was facing roadblocks from Piper's management. The next week, Piper revealed that Bischoff had lied and didn't actually visit his home. I remember that segment when Piper kept repeating "The road to my home, was it straight or was it crooked?" over and over again like it was the ultimate gotcha! moment. My cousin got a kick out of that segment. |
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Feb 21, 2024 10:25:25 GMT -5
My theory was that the reason they went after Eric in the beginning was to cast doubt on him. This may not have been the original idea but it was an effective way to make people think he wasn't involved by making him a victim first while he pulls the strings behind the scenes.
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Post by stephen90 on Feb 22, 2024 8:19:56 GMT -5
There are points that you don’t realize it but it's there Bischoff showing tapes to Macho Man about how the NWO is treating Miss Elizabeth,Bischoff predicting what the NWO would do the Nasty Boys. Bischoff sending top WCW wrestlers over to Japan so the NWO could take over. Also that night Bischoff is the only announcer that doesn't try to leave.
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