lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,722
|
Post by lucas_lee on Mar 17, 2024 9:03:21 GMT -5
I generally am week to week if I can watch just because rehearsals vary from Tuesdays or Wednesdays and I don't have much time as I used to.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on Mar 17, 2024 9:09:28 GMT -5
WWE has had a much larger and darker cloud over it for two years and has had no impact on the popularity of the product. I just don't think those things matter as much as folks suspect it does. Exactly. Like these ratings or how cold angles feel has less to do with CM Punk vs the Elite and more with putting second/third banana people in main event positions and how scatterbrain some of the booking choices (let's have Okada's first match..just randomly happen 3 days later on the B show for..reasons) can be. Spot on. The week to week TV for me has waned because of my interest in the product itself and the booking of it, nothing to do with the backstage Punk drama. I will say my interest is piqued with Ospreay, Okada and Mone coming in, as all three are fresh faces to the product and top level stars. I just hope the TV booking can keep me engaged and not fall into some of the same patterns that caused me to be disinterested.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,743
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 17, 2024 13:23:46 GMT -5
WWE has had a much larger and darker cloud over it for two years and has had no impact on the popularity of the product. I just don't think those things matter as much as folks suspect it does. Exactly. Like these ratings or how cold angles feel has less to do with CM Punk vs the Elite and more with putting second/third banana people in main event positions and how scatterbrain some of the booking choices (let's have Okada's first match..just randomly happen 3 days later on the B show for..reasons) can be. Because Collision needs to be treated as a big deal or it's gonna get into the bullshit Rampage arguments we get where "Nothing important happens there ever" (When it actually does and then people get angry further for some reason) It was a quick showcase where Okada blew through three people and then his first REAL match with actual competitors in it was at Big Business and set up on Collision, so it didn't just happen for "some reason", and then the following Dynamite match with Kingston was built off of THAT, so every Okada match so far has been built with a storyline directive in mind. I don't really see how him competing on a showcase on Collision hurt a Dynamite number, nor do I see the Collision match as pointless.
|
|
|
Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Mar 17, 2024 14:49:36 GMT -5
Using myself as an example, I decided last week to stop watching Dynamite, and I didn't miss watching it this week. I started watching Dynamite around the time of the Wembley show, when before I was watching Collision primarily when that show debuted.
For me, the show always had more misses than hits. The best episode of Dynamite was the one in which Kingston beat Claudio for the ROH title. The worst was the one in which the main event was Edge vs. Suzuki. I decided to stop watching because it didn't make sense to keep watching a show only for the good stuff, only in some vain hope that everything could be consistently good and entertaining across a 2-hour card, when most times that has never been true for me.
A lot of the things I had issues with when I started watching AEW in late 2021--too many meaningless tag matches, too many meaningless hardcore matches, terrible refereeing, inconsistent characterization, a major lack of star power, grating commentary--are still issues for me in 2024. In some cases, like the refereeing, they've become even worse.
AEW has felt like it has been in a rebuild mode since the first big CM Punk blowup. The past 8 months in particular have been hard to watch as the company struggles to find a direction. AEW has been lucky to latch onto things like MJF and Cole becoming best buds and Swerve Strickland becoming a face, but it needs more of these lightning-bottle catches. And it's always a bit of one step forward, two steps back when these lightning-catches do happen, like Cole and then MJF getting injured, for example. And the stuff in between, like the Devil/Undisputed Kingdom angle, haven't been worth the time investment.
In saying this, I come back to the idea that my problem with AEW is Tony Khan and his booking. Nothing will really change as long as he remains the creative lens through which everything gets filtered. Even though I'm not watching the show currently, this remains a depressing prospect because I don't see him any time soon letting someone else book the shows and PPVs.
For what it's worth, AEW at its worst--why does Rick Knox still have a job? why does AEW rely on using thumbtacks so much? why is Taz? etc.--is nowhere near as bad as WWE is at its worst. At least I'm still emotionally invested in AEW because it's bad (and I want it to be better). Whereas WWE when WWE is bad it's just a big nothing. It doesn't even register. Smackdown has been a real chore. Some diamonds are in the rough, but everything else is a desert. Watching Raw must be so much worse because of that extra hour, I can't even imagine.
Yet fans at WWE shows are hotter than they've been in years, but they are hot for an actual product that seems room-temperature cold. It's a complete mystery to me.
It's always darkest before the dawn, of course, but as a checked-out AEW viewer at this moment, it seems like the quality of the TV shows are closer to minutes to midnight. Last summer, AEW seemed to heat up on the road to Wembley, so I'll dip back in around mid-July or early August and see whether things have improved.
|
|
schizo
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,515
Member is Online
|
Post by schizo on Mar 17, 2024 15:15:34 GMT -5
Using myself as an example, I decided last week to stop watching Dynamite, and I didn't miss watching it this week. I started watching Dynamite around the time of the Wembley show, when before I was watching Collision primarily when that show debuted. For me, the show always had more misses than hits. The best episode of Dynamite was the one in which Kingston beat Claudio for the ROH title. The worst was the one in which the main event was Edge vs. Suzuki. I decided to stop watching because it didn't make sense to keep watching a show only for the good stuff, only in some vain hope that everything could be consistently good and entertaining across a 2-hour card, when most times that has never been true for me. A lot of the things I had issues with when I started watching AEW in late 2021--too many meaningless tag matches, too many meaningless hardcore matches, terrible refereeing, inconsistent characterization, a major lack of star power, grating commentary--are still issues for me in 2024. In some cases, like the refereeing, they've become even worse. AEW has felt like it has been in a rebuild mode since the first big CM Punk blowup. The past 8 months in particular have been hard to watch as the company struggles to find a direction. AEW has been lucky to latch onto things like MJF and Cole becoming best buds and Swerve Strickland becoming a face, but it needs more of these lightning-bottle catches. And it's always a bit of one step forward, two steps back when these lightning-catches do happen, like Cole and then MJF getting injured, for example. And the stuff in between, like the Devil/Undisputed Kingdom angle, haven't been worth the time investment. In saying this, I come back to the idea that my problem with AEW is Tony Khan and his booking. Nothing will really change as long as he remains the creative lens through which everything gets filtered. Even though I'm not watching the show currently, this remains a depressing prospect because I don't see him any time soon letting someone else book the shows and PPVs. For what it's worth, AEW at its worst--why does Rick Knox still have a job? why does AEW rely on using thumbtacks so much? why is Taz? etc.--is nowhere near as bad as WWE is at its worst. At least I'm still emotionally invested in AEW because it's bad (and I want it to be better). Whereas WWE when WWE is bad it's just a big nothing. It doesn't even register. Smackdown has been a real chore. Some diamonds are in the rough, but everything else is a desert. Watching Raw must be so much worse because of that extra hour, I can't even imagine. Yet fans at WWE shows are hotter than they've been in years, but they are hot for an actual product that seems room-temperature cold. It's a complete mystery to me. It's always darkest before the dawn, of course, but as a checked-out AEW viewer at this moment, it seems like the quality of the TV shows are closer to minutes to midnight. Last summer, AEW seemed to heat up on the road to Wembley, so I'll dip back in around mid-July or early August and see whether things have improved. Imo AEW has had a pretty strong 2024 so far with some questionable booking here and there but with some strong shows and a excellent PPV, my only gripe is they need to showcase the woman more on each show imo, hopefully with Mone coming in that’ll change. With why WWE crowds are hot for the product even though the product is apparently “Ice cold”, well isn’t that subjective?’ Imo the WWE for the past 2 years have been pretty hot and engaging and the crowds and ratings are showing because of it, there’s no mystery here, fans are reacting to how hot the product is, not everyone agrees of course, but saying the product is cold is really just an opinion.
|
|
neilc
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 555
|
Post by neilc on Mar 17, 2024 15:20:56 GMT -5
I'm one of those checked out of watching week to week though I still keep up with results and will watch segments on YouTube etc. Consciously at least it has nothing to do with all the backstage stuff. Yeah, the backstage drama had nothing to with how I feel about the product, it was how many characters I just didn't care about or just found annoying and too many matches I thought were put together 'because.' (your milage might vary). I thought this week's show was one of the best in a while and want the cycle to continue so I can enjoy the product as much as I did the first few years. I was not familiar with Okada and Osprey except for the scattered times they were on American TV but now that both are full-time members of the roster, I'm starting to understand why both have the reputations they have.
|
|
|
Post by Lizuka #BLM on Mar 17, 2024 15:27:23 GMT -5
I don't at all agree that matches happening for the sake of it is a problem, since, like, it's a wrestling company, there are gonna be matches, at least they're good and they generally integrate them into ongoing stories some way or other. Now, the not caring about the roster thing, hell yeah I can relate with that. Even when AEW's roster didn't consist of 256,000 people there was probably only like a third of it I gave a damn about and that metric hasn't gotten better.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,743
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 17, 2024 19:49:45 GMT -5
Using myself as an example, I decided last week to stop watching Dynamite, and I didn't miss watching it this week. I started watching Dynamite around the time of the Wembley show, when before I was watching Collision primarily when that show debuted. For me, the show always had more misses than hits. The best episode of Dynamite was the one in which Kingston beat Claudio for the ROH title. The worst was the one in which the main event was Edge vs. Suzuki. I decided to stop watching because it didn't make sense to keep watching a show only for the good stuff, only in some vain hope that everything could be consistently good and entertaining across a 2-hour card, when most times that has never been true for me. A lot of the things I had issues with when I started watching AEW in late 2021--too many meaningless tag matches, too many meaningless hardcore matches, terrible refereeing, inconsistent characterization, a major lack of star power, grating commentary--are still issues for me in 2024. In some cases, like the refereeing, they've become even worse. AEW has felt like it has been in a rebuild mode since the first big CM Punk blowup. The past 8 months in particular have been hard to watch as the company struggles to find a direction. AEW has been lucky to latch onto things like MJF and Cole becoming best buds and Swerve Strickland becoming a face, but it needs more of these lightning-bottle catches. And it's always a bit of one step forward, two steps back when these lightning-catches do happen, like Cole and then MJF getting injured, for example. And the stuff in between, like the Devil/Undisputed Kingdom angle, haven't been worth the time investment. In saying this, I come back to the idea that my problem with AEW is Tony Khan and his booking. Nothing will really change as long as he remains the creative lens through which everything gets filtered. Even though I'm not watching the show currently, this remains a depressing prospect because I don't see him any time soon letting someone else book the shows and PPVs. For what it's worth, AEW at its worst--why does Rick Knox still have a job? why does AEW rely on using thumbtacks so much? why is Taz? etc.--is nowhere near as bad as WWE is at its worst. At least I'm still emotionally invested in AEW because it's bad (and I want it to be better). Whereas WWE when WWE is bad it's just a big nothing. It doesn't even register. Smackdown has been a real chore. Some diamonds are in the rough, but everything else is a desert. Watching Raw must be so much worse because of that extra hour, I can't even imagine. Yet fans at WWE shows are hotter than they've been in years, but they are hot for an actual product that seems room-temperature cold. It's a complete mystery to me. It's always darkest before the dawn, of course, but as a checked-out AEW viewer at this moment, it seems like the quality of the TV shows are closer to minutes to midnight. Last summer, AEW seemed to heat up on the road to Wembley, so I'll dip back in around mid-July or early August and see whether things have improved. I guess my notes on this would be... It's shocking to me how annoyed some people can be with Referee leniency in a sport that's already yknow, kayfabe. I get needing to suspend disbelief but AEW's refs aren't nearly as egregious as they used to be in the early days to me. Sometimes they might not call for a DQ or break something up when they should but I remember when this was a weekly constant, I'm shocked that for some this is somehow worse then 2021 lol Also shocking to me how Tony Khan's booking can be placed as AEW's biggest issue when imo Tony Khan is the best booker I've seen for a US wrestling promotion in ages. D'Amore was giving him a run for his money and then Anthem fired him, so there's that. F***ing dumbasses. He's not perfect but as someone who likes logical booking that calls back to what's come before, most everything I've seen from Khan at least makes some logical sense from a booking standpoint and I appreciate it after well, years of nothing WWE doing making any sense, which hey they've gotten better since Vince left but point stands. Does AEW really use Thumbtacks THAT much? I feel like we've see the spot a handful of times over a few years, maybe that's too much for some people but when it comes to their Deathmatches, they seem to change up what we see which is a credit to them not having everything feel the same sort of way. Also don't be dissing Taz, his commentary gives me life
|
|
|
Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Mar 18, 2024 5:25:50 GMT -5
Exactly. Like these ratings or how cold angles feel has less to do with CM Punk vs the Elite and more with putting second/third banana people in main event positions and how scatterbrain some of the booking choices (let's have Okada's first match..just randomly happen 3 days later on the B show for..reasons) can be. Because Collision needs to be treated as a big deal or it's gonna get into the bullshit Rampage arguments we get where "Nothing important happens there ever" (When it actually does and then people get angry further for some reason) It was a quick showcase where Okada blew through three people and then his first REAL match with actual competitors in it was at Big Business and set up on Collision, so it didn't just happen for "some reason", and then the following Dynamite match with Kingston was built off of THAT, so every Okada match so far has been built with a storyline directive in mind. I don't really see how him competing on a showcase on Collision hurt a Dynamite number, nor do I see the Collision match as pointless. Okada return match didn't need to be rushed the way it was in regards of ticket sales. Collision was tapped 24 hrs after his return. The TV ratings side of things no it didn't hurt it. What it hurt if the ticket sales for that show because fans had 24 hrs to deside to go and nobody out of town could make changes. So it only hurt the live crowd.
|
|
|
Post by Lizuka #BLM on Mar 18, 2024 5:37:17 GMT -5
Because Collision needs to be treated as a big deal or it's gonna get into the bullshit Rampage arguments we get where "Nothing important happens there ever" (When it actually does and then people get angry further for some reason) It was a quick showcase where Okada blew through three people and then his first REAL match with actual competitors in it was at Big Business and set up on Collision, so it didn't just happen for "some reason", and then the following Dynamite match with Kingston was built off of THAT, so every Okada match so far has been built with a storyline directive in mind. I don't really see how him competing on a showcase on Collision hurt a Dynamite number, nor do I see the Collision match as pointless. Okada return match didn't need to be rushed the way it was in regards of ticket sales. Collision was tapped 24 hrs after his return. The TV ratings side of things no it didn't hurt it. What it hurt if the ticket sales for that show because fans had 24 hrs to deside to go and nobody out of town could make changes. So it only hurt the live crowd. Even then I really don't see the issue? I doubt Okada is a mainstream enough name in the US to really meaningfully drive ticket sales outside of big markets anyway, and is there anyone at all who'd be like, "Well, cool, I was going to go see Dynamite featuring Okada vs. Kingston buuuut they already had him on Collision against Bumblef*** McWhosit so I'll pass"? Your argument only works if there's one and only time they could sell tickets around him.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Mar 18, 2024 6:14:39 GMT -5
I do have to say, the main issue I can't really grasp is "pointless matches"; sometimes they'll do a "banger for the sake of a banger" on Rampage, but most of the time I'd say about 90% of the matches you get either get meshed into ongoing stories or, at bare minimum, they're showcases for wrestlers who are about to be featured in a bigger spot/match/story etc. in the immediate future. If the characters or stories themselves don't really do it for you I can't say you're wrong or anything (though there's always a discussion to be had about how different fans watch shows differently, and how it might impact what we take away from promotions offering different styles of wrestling), but even the seemingly "pointless" Danielson/Shibata match on Saturday was immediately used to further the Danielson/Ospreay match build and got Shibata more integrated onto the show after some time away, given his multiple appearances after the match.
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Mar 18, 2024 6:36:16 GMT -5
I do have to say, the main issue I can't really grasp is "pointless matches"; sometimes they'll do a "banger for the sake of a banger" on Rampage, but most of the time I'd say about 90% of the matches you get either get meshed into ongoing stories or, at bare minimum, they're showcases for wrestlers who are about to be featured in a bigger spot/match/story etc. in the immediate future. If the characters or stories themselves don't really do it for you I can't say you're wrong or anything (though there's always a discussion to be had about how different fans watch shows differently, and how it might impact what we take away from promotions offering different styles of wrestling), but even the seemingly "pointless" Danielson/Shibata match on Saturday was immediately used to further the Danielson/Ospreay match build and got Shibata more integrated onto the show after some time away, given his multiple appearances after the match. Yeah, like, even the Okada six man debut people were being weird about lead to the six man tag the next week and is leading to Okada/Kingston this week. That’s the most basic storytelling pipeline you can ask for, never mind it’s basically the method of making Okada, for a lack of a better term, a big deal real quick. Most matches are there either to remind you about someone to set up the pieces for later down the line or continuations of stuff that happened previously.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on Mar 18, 2024 9:46:32 GMT -5
I do have to say, the main issue I can't really grasp is "pointless matches"; sometimes they'll do a "banger for the sake of a banger" on Rampage, but most of the time I'd say about 90% of the matches you get either get meshed into ongoing stories or, at bare minimum, they're showcases for wrestlers who are about to be featured in a bigger spot/match/story etc. in the immediate future. If the characters or stories themselves don't really do it for you I can't say you're wrong or anything (though there's always a discussion to be had about how different fans watch shows differently, and how it might impact what we take away from promotions offering different styles of wrestling), but even the seemingly "pointless" Danielson/Shibata match on Saturday was immediately used to further the Danielson/Ospreay match build and got Shibata more integrated onto the show after some time away, given his multiple appearances after the match. My biggest issue is usually when I look at an upcoming card and it has 3 to 5 matches that are basically star vs. low-mid card talent that has no chance of winning yet they still go two segments each, and there’s no interesting story being told. Instead the narrative is typically furthered after the match with some type of run-in/beat down. That’s why I look forward to the “bigger” Dynamite cards where they’ll have some well-built star vs. star matches on there. Now there are exceptions where I will enjoy watching the random star vs. lower card matches of course depending on the particular talent (I’ll watch/enjoy every Danielson or Omega match, and same right now for Okada and Ospreay) but on the whole that’s how I feel.
|
|
|
Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Mar 19, 2024 5:06:31 GMT -5
Okada return match didn't need to be rushed the way it was in regards of ticket sales. Collision was tapped 24 hrs after his return. The TV ratings side of things no it didn't hurt it. What it hurt if the ticket sales for that show because fans had 24 hrs to deside to go and nobody out of town could make changes. So it only hurt the live crowd. Even then I really don't see the issue? I doubt Okada is a mainstream enough name in the US to really meaningfully drive ticket sales outside of big markets anyway, and is there anyone at all who'd be like, "Well, cool, I was going to go see Dynamite featuring Okada vs. Kingston buuuut they already had him on Collision against Bumblef*** McWhosit so I'll pass"? Your argument only works if there's one and only time they could sell tickets around him. I was talking about that first match back. Collision itself, yes a match and how you present him does matter when it comes to telling tickets and drawing numbers. If you build it up and sell Okada as a big deal. If you just through him in a match that quickly, you make him more just another roster member instead of this guy is a major star from Japan. It all about how you present it.
|
|
markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,322
Member is Online
|
Post by markymark on Mar 21, 2024 13:32:00 GMT -5
|
|
r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
Posts: 16,469
|
Post by r. on Mar 21, 2024 15:19:00 GMT -5
That's right, it's 3/21 and this is still going.
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Mar 21, 2024 15:29:06 GMT -5
I think if you're getting to the point when you're reporting on minute-by-minute ratings swings, you need to stop and look at what you're doing with your life.
|
|
Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
Grimlock
Blanket burrito season is back, and I never left the blankets
Posts: 12,837
Member is Online
|
Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Mar 21, 2024 15:31:46 GMT -5
I think if you're getting to the point when you're reporting on minute-by-minute ratings swings, you need to stop and look at what you're doing with your life. Depends, I think this is a case where the minute-by-minute is interesting information alongside the quarter hour. The minute by minute shows that there was in fact interest in Mone's implication of showing up - quite high interest - but it wasn't enough to draw enough consistent views to spike the quarter hour. I dunno what one does with that information, mind, but I'm not opposed to knowing it.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,868
|
Post by Dub H on Mar 21, 2024 16:34:33 GMT -5
I told you all Riho vs Nightganle was pulling numbers!
LETS GO RIHO!
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on Mar 21, 2024 17:20:11 GMT -5
I think if you're getting to the point when you're reporting on minute-by-minute ratings swings, you need to stop and look at what you're doing with your life. The minute by minutes are actually much more useful than the quarter hours.
|
|