Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 22, 2024 13:55:21 GMT -5
To engage on the "ratings" issue. What part of March Madness are people forgetting? It's one of the most fun, chaotic tourneys in the world. We had a dude who looks like a future accountant completely wipe out a bunch of NBA prospects in Kentucky. No sport can match that level of chaos. Not even MMA or wrestling. Tourney games started Thursday not Wednesday, at least I know my bracket had to be locked on Thursday. The First Four started on Wednesday and drew big numbers, you literally can't ignore that, the chart shows they dominated the top 10 that night. You are always trying to look for ways to deflect when it comes to ratings numbers and reasons AEW's number might be down, but that chart is literally on the same page you posted this lol
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 22, 2024 13:55:40 GMT -5
6 pages? Boy oh boy am I glad I don't give a shit about ratings and rarely pop in to these threads because shit seems exhausting lol Would you consider yourself a casual fan of ratings threads?
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Post by stoptheclocks on Mar 22, 2024 13:59:51 GMT -5
I mean, all this talk about AEW ratings being down year-to-year. Looked up something because I saw it posted elsewhere and wanted to compare myself. Looks to me, and it's just one source and I really should be working and not researching ratings but I was curious, like it isn't just AEW. Just comparing Raw from 2023 this time last year to this year, and honestly it looks they're down overall from last year as well. www.gerweck.net/tv-ratings/2023-tv-ratings/ - 2023 www.gerweck.net/tv-ratings/2024-tv-ratings/ - 2024 For the most part Smackdown seems to be better in most cases, but they've also leaned on The Rock for Smackdown quite a bit this year and Smackdown isn't on cable, so that might have something to do with it. Point being, just from a rather small sample size, I'd hazard a guess this is mostly due to cable viewership going down year-to-year as has been the case for awhile. Wrestlenomics do good charts on this here... i0.wp.com/wrestlenomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/tweet_chart_2024-03-21-1.jpg?resize=1100%2C619&ssl=1Dynamite was dropping double digit % for most of the last year, so it looks like that is levelling out a little. Raw's overall viewership is down this year, but was up quite significantly this time last year so is largely regressing back to where they were.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 22, 2024 14:01:17 GMT -5
I mean, all this talk about AEW ratings being down year-to-year. Looked up something because I saw it posted elsewhere and wanted to compare myself. Looks to me, and it's just one source and I really should be working and not researching ratings but I was curious, like it isn't just AEW. Just comparing Raw from 2023 this time last year to this year, and honestly it looks they're down overall from last year as well. www.gerweck.net/tv-ratings/2023-tv-ratings/ - 2023 www.gerweck.net/tv-ratings/2024-tv-ratings/ - 2024 For the most part Smackdown seems to be better in most cases, but they've also leaned on The Rock for Smackdown quite a bit this year and Smackdown isn't on cable, so that might have something to do with it. Point being, just from a rather small sample size, I'd hazard a guess this is mostly due to cable viewership going down year-to-year as has been the case for awhile. Wrestlenomics do good charts on this here... i0.wp.com/wrestlenomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/tweet_chart_2024-03-21-1.jpg?resize=1100%2C619&ssl=1Dynamite was dropping double digit % for most of the last year, so it looks like that is levelling out a little. Raw's overall viewership is down this year, but was up quite significantly this time last year so is largely regressing back to where they were. They definitely got a big time bump last year with the product being (mostly) Vinceless, guess we should enjoy these numbers while we got them because I assume Netflix's move will make RAW's impossible.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Mar 22, 2024 14:18:14 GMT -5
Nah man I'm not gonna waste wind on this anymore. If I can't even get the like room temperature good faith of you believing me when I say we have an actual disagreement and that I'm just being contrarian instead, then there's no point. I laid out where our disagreements on casual fans lie, you're the one choosing to pretend otherwise. I will concede that this post is one where I don't like what you have to say, but in a special, second meaning. Seriously, how many threads are we going to have this argument about casual fans, present very logical thinking points as to what a casual fan is and w hat some people try and make a "casual fan" out to be a strawman for their own opinions, be basically told "Ok well I don't believe you" and rinse and repeat the next ratings thread that doesn't get hit the number some people want or expect it to? If you want reasonable discussion about this topic straight up ignoring the posters who are giving you the information about said topic and choosing to believe what you want not once but like every thread feels like the exact opposite of good faith. Especially when it ends with "Idk I think you just hate what I have to say" like... what??Casual fans exist, and imaginary casual fans who happen to hate the same thing the person presenting the argument hate to drive home the point the thing "definitely sucks" both exist and I don't know why that's so hard to believe... And I'd say that is in bad faith. Why does having an opinion about casual fans (the ones who know wrestling and tune in for names) make one a strawman? It's all silly because AEW ain't going anywhere. But doesn't there have to be some explanation as to why there is a decline after the honeymoon phase? The internet hardcore fans still love the product as much as ever. Who isn't there tuning in anymore? And to the second point, I feel like we sincerely had similar definitions to the term. But we (not you)don't see eye to eye on a lot so it's easy for me to think that from my vantage point.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Mar 22, 2024 14:34:32 GMT -5
Me (seeing page count): “So, 6 pages of jokes about Andy Williams/ETID/The Butcher then?”
*starts browsing thread*
Eh…never mind.
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Kalmia
King Koopa
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Post by Kalmia on Mar 22, 2024 14:34:45 GMT -5
A lot of the "chase the casual fan" ideas just suggest that AEW do things like WWE does. What's the point in that? WWE are already doing it. You're not going to be better at it than WWE are.
AEW can certainly improve, but changing the philosophy of their shows and their brand of wrestling to appeal to a different audience that may or may not give them a chance isn't the way. They will lose the audience they have without any guarantee of getting a new one.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Mar 22, 2024 14:42:21 GMT -5
A lot of the "chase the casual fan" ideas just suggest that AEW do things like WWE does. What's the point in that? WWE are already doing it. You're not going to be better at it than WWE are. AEW can certainly improve, but changing the philosophy of their shows and their brand of wrestling to appeal to a different audience that may or may not give them a chance isn't the way. They will lose the audience they have without any guarantee of getting a new one. 100 percent agree.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 22, 2024 15:05:04 GMT -5
Seriously, how many threads are we going to have this argument about casual fans, present very logical thinking points as to what a casual fan is and w hat some people try and make a "casual fan" out to be a strawman for their own opinions, be basically told "Ok well I don't believe you" and rinse and repeat the next ratings thread that doesn't get hit the number some people want or expect it to? If you want reasonable discussion about this topic straight up ignoring the posters who are giving you the information about said topic and choosing to believe what you want not once but like every thread feels like the exact opposite of good faith. Especially when it ends with "Idk I think you just hate what I have to say" like... what??Casual fans exist, and imaginary casual fans who happen to hate the same thing the person presenting the argument hate to drive home the point the thing "definitely sucks" both exist and I don't know why that's so hard to believe... And I'd say that is in bad faith. Why does having an opinion about casual fans (the ones who know wrestling and tune in for names) make one a strawman? It's all silly because AEW ain't going anywhere. But doesn't there have to be some explanation as to why there is a decline after the honeymoon phase? The internet hardcore fans still love the product as much as ever. Who isn't there tuning in anymore? And to the second point, I feel like we sincerely had similar definitions to the term. But we (not you)don't see eye to eye on a lot so it's easy for me to think that from my vantage point. I just think both things are very real Casual fans exist, they operate on a different wavelength then the normal wrestling fan especially ones like us and digest their media very differently and prioritize other things And then there ones who argue bad faith and cite "muh casuals" as a reason the product isn't doing well enough or to a perceived notion as to what they should be doing, and they can cite "muh casuals" because they don't exist in this context and we can't exactly poll and ask them because of that because in reality casuals are all different, like, hate, and consume this media in ways that aren't specifically nitpicked to "Well see they just don't like THIS" conveniently the way the person presenting the argument also doesn't like shit.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Mar 22, 2024 15:11:49 GMT -5
And I'd say that is in bad faith. Why does having an opinion about casual fans (the ones who know wrestling and tune in for names) make one a strawman? It's all silly because AEW ain't going anywhere. But doesn't there have to be some explanation as to why there is a decline after the honeymoon phase? The internet hardcore fans still love the product as much as ever. Who isn't there tuning in anymore? And to the second point, I feel like we sincerely had similar definitions to the term. But we (not you)don't see eye to eye on a lot so it's easy for me to think that from my vantage point. I just think both things are very real Casual fans exist, they operate on a different wavelength then the normal wrestling fan especially ones like us and digest their media very differently and prioritize other things And then there ones who argue bad faith and cite "muh casuals" as a reason the product isn't doing well enough or to a perceived notion as to what they should be doing, and they can cite "muh casuals" because they don't exist in this context and we can't exactly poll and ask them because of that because in reality casuals are all different, like, hate, and consume this media in ways that aren't specifically nitpicked to "Well see they just don't like THIS" conveniently the way the person presenting the argument also doesn't like shit. Thanks for clarity this is fine reply. But on the contrary, I can also say something like “I didn’t like Super Cena or the part timers, but the casuals love him so I understand why he gets the push.” You know what I mean? In short I just don’t think the term casual fan is just a shoehorn for people to shout their own opinions. Does it happen? Sure, but imo, a lot of the time isn’t out of bad faith.
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Post by eJm on Mar 22, 2024 15:15:35 GMT -5
A lot of the "chase the casual fan" ideas just suggest that AEW do things like WWE does. What's the point in that? WWE are already doing it. You're not going to be better at it than WWE are. AEW can certainly improve, but changing the philosophy of their shows and their brand of wrestling to appeal to a different audience that may or may not give them a chance isn't the way. They will lose the audience they have without any guarantee of getting a new one. Like, we literally have historical context for this. TNA brought in Hogan and Bischoff who brought in a bunch of ex WWF/WCW people and it hurt TNA so hard, they’re still recovering even now. Heck, AEW last year did stuff to try and get WWE fans which didn’t work because those people aren’t going to watch anything but WWE. Heck, it was a thing that got Fox to cancel Smackdown because Fox only saw a benefit for Smackdown and nothing else. The best thing for any company wanting to get to a level of WWE, or even at a decent national level, is to be different from the other side. The Pepsi example TK used in one press conference.
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Post by stoptheclocks on Mar 22, 2024 15:21:27 GMT -5
Money wise, even if the new TV deal didn’t make AEW profitable, the company is not in any danger given the amount of money that Tony Khan is worth and his love for wrestling. That's definitely nonsense, the idea that TK would be anywhere close to pulling the plug. But equally, I find it hard to believe that he's just brought in three free agents on reported massive deals (four if you go back to Edge) and isn't expecting to see any kind of return. I think people are too quick to paint Khan as this excited puppy who'll be happy spunking tens of millions indefinitely for no reason. Or that WBD are totally passive and content regardless of what the ratings are for AEW shows. You don't sign the people they have done and not expect to see a noticeable upturn in business. This is just a couple of weeks of ratings, nothing worth drawing any wider conclusions from. However, I think it's totally reasonable to say they would've expected a bit more from these numbers, certainly last week. Nothing more, nothing less than that.
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Post by CeilingFan on Mar 22, 2024 15:22:34 GMT -5
I am sick and tired of hearing about "casual fans"".
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J is Justice
Wade Wilson
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Post by J is Justice on Mar 22, 2024 15:40:42 GMT -5
I am sick and tired of hearing about "casual fans"". What about ceiling fans?
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mystermystery
Dennis Stamp
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Post by mystermystery on Mar 22, 2024 16:27:18 GMT -5
If there is one thing casual fans like, it's YouTube.
Therefore, AEW needs to bring back Dark/Elevation immediately to lock down on millions of potential casual fans.
There...did I do it? Did I add to the discourse?
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Mar 22, 2024 16:28:06 GMT -5
I am sick and tired of hearing about "casual fans"". What about ceiling fans? What about Only Fans?!
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Post by CeilingFan on Mar 22, 2024 16:47:31 GMT -5
I am sick and tired of hearing about "casual fans"". What about ceiling fans?
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Mar 22, 2024 16:48:03 GMT -5
Am I the only one who thinks this isn’t that complicated?
AEW got hot in a period when WWE was down. WWE has gotten hotter. At the same time, AEW went through a combination of issues that hurt the product around the time of many big shows: injuries, suspensions, drama. This hurt the company in tangible ways as it often messed up creative. They’re now in a period where those things have stabilized and so has the business.
They’re still one of the top 1-3 shows every Wednesday on cable, the PPV business is good, attendance has been better most weeks lately. They do not need analyzed to this degree.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
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Post by Dub H on Mar 22, 2024 17:29:43 GMT -5
If there is one thing casual fans like, it's YouTube. Therefore, AEW needs to bring back Dark/Elevation immediately to lock down on millions of potential casual fans. There...did I do it? Did I add to the discourse? Not jokingly, at one point I wanted to make a thread asking if Dark helped keep interest in the product, I legit think it helped a little even if no one would watch it all
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Mar 22, 2024 17:37:44 GMT -5
If there is one thing casual fans like, it's YouTube. Therefore, AEW needs to bring back Dark/Elevation immediately to lock down on millions of potential casual fans. There...did I do it? Did I add to the discourse? Not jokingly, at one point I wanted to make a thread asking if Dark helped keep interest in the product, I legit think it helped a little even if no one would watch it all It seemed to for a while before trailing off in usefulness. I remember being surprised how over some of the Dark regulars seemed to be with live crowds just post-pandemic, but that tapered off when Dark had to adhere to the schedule of a live taping and had less potential for hidden gems. I think once Rampage existed, the appetite for Dark decreased and the potential to get over on there decreased with it.
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