|
|
Post by dumpstermatchblues on Sept 4, 2024 11:14:02 GMT -5
I'm cranky so I'm throwing it out there. There tends to be a mob mentality for DV and SA because there is a comically low rate for these crimes to even lead to arrest, let alone a conviction. Osyss-see-ya has already shown himself to be a not great person, and WWE nuking him means there may be more than "just allegations". Unfortunately, even if those "more than just allegations" exist, the odds say there won't be criminal charges. Could you explain your last sentence there? I'm curious as to why evidence would not lead to criminal charges, and if he is not criminally charged, why he should have his career destroyed. I know sometimes these subjects get impassioned, but I'm asking from a place of legit curiosity here. I'm trying to understand both the situation and the possible outcomes. |
|
Gawk Rivers
Ozymandius
MAMMA MIA! CRUISERLICIOUS!
GIIIGIIIGIIIGIIIGIGI
Posts: 61,229 
Member is Online
|
Post by Gawk Rivers on Sept 4, 2024 11:16:01 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by cassonova on Sept 4, 2024 11:32:42 GMT -5
I'm cranky so I'm throwing it out there. There tends to be a mob mentality for DV and SA because there is a comically low rate for these crimes to even lead to arrest, let alone a conviction. Osyss-see-ya has already shown himself to be a not great person, and WWE nuking him means there may be more than "just allegations". Unfortunately, even if those "more than just allegations" exist, the odds say there won't be criminal charges. Could you explain your last sentence there? I'm curious as to why evidence would not lead to criminal charges, and if he is not criminally charged, why he should have his career destroyed. I know sometimes these subjects get impassioned, but I'm asking from a place of legit curiosity here. I'm trying to understand both the situation and the possible outcomes. Even if there is evidence, someone has to be willing to press charges, which 99% of the time requires the victim to comply, who may not for a variety of reasons. I won't speak for others, but my take is this: if you are someone you beats their significant other. I don't want to be entertained by them nor should they be making a living in a field that makes you "a star or celebrity". Just because he isn't in jail, doesn't mean he's "innocent". It just means no one is willing to convict. And "innocent until proven guilty in the court of law" is a legal phrase, not a moral one. |
|
khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,906
|
Post by khali on Sept 4, 2024 12:12:11 GMT -5
Look, imma be real here. This whole “innocent until proven guilty” thing that gets thrown out any time someone is hit with an accusation is BS. I’m not a court of law of and neither is WWE. I don’t need to wait for a legal case to hit to determine if I personally think someone is “guilty.” And neither does WWE or any other employer. All the info we have right now is that WWE decided to fire the guy outright. That to me as a person tells me it just be pretty serious and is enough for me to believe he did something wrong. That seems a lot more likely to me than some minuscule scenario where Odyssey Jones has been falsely accused, because in the real world that’s not a thing that happens very often. I hear y'all, but Ima just civilly have to go against the mob consensus for now. I consider Vince and Odyssey both innocent until proven guilty. So if a neighbor tells you they saw some abuse going on down the street involving Hank and his wife, do you say that Hank down the street must still be innocent until proven guilty? Saying Vince is innocent until proven guilty is especially bullshit. There’s a big ol document out there with the accusations and text messages as proof. You’re not high and mighty and smarter than “the mob” if you’re still taking a neutral stance after that. |
|
schma
El Dandy
Who are you to doubt me?
Posts: 7,608
|
Post by schma on Sept 4, 2024 12:26:06 GMT -5
I'm cranky so I'm throwing it out there. There tends to be a mob mentality for DV and SA because there is a comically low rate for these crimes to even lead to arrest, let alone a conviction. Osyss-see-ya has already shown himself to be a not great person, and WWE nuking him means there may be more than "just allegations". Unfortunately, even if those "more than just allegations" exist, the odds say there won't be criminal charges. Could you explain your last sentence there? I'm curious as to why evidence would not lead to criminal charges, and if he is not criminally charged, why he should have his career destroyed. I know sometimes these subjects get impassioned, but I'm asking from a place of legit curiosity here. I'm trying to understand both the situation and the possible outcomes. As mentioned above, someone has to be willing to press charges. Often in instances of abuse, it doesn't start physically. It's mental and emotional, convincing the person they're worthless without their abuser, that no one would want them, that they can't survive without them. It's partly why it takes some people so many abuses before they walk away. All credit to my mom, she left him the first time my dad hurt her physically. She never pursued criminal charges, still loves him to this day, but he crossed a line and that ended their marriage. However, my father never went anywhere near jail. Hell he was convinced they would get back together some day.
Sometimes, for the person who has been abused, making a clean break is hard enough. Going through a legal system, facing lawyers that will try to paint them to be the bad guy or make them relive their trauma in the worst ways? I can see why few people would be willing to suffer that. Then there's the matter of proof. Many abusers are smart enough to keep their abuse behind closed doors where it is damn difficult to get proof. Hell, they're often exceedingly nice to other people in their lives which can make it even harder because these people will leap to defend them. Whether it's Domestic Violence or Sexual abuse, the system is generally not kind to victims.
|
|
|
|
Post by Stu on Sept 4, 2024 12:28:29 GMT -5
The legal system is complex and it's incorrect to presume allegations and convictions are mutually exclusive. I'm going to use the Tammy Sytch matter as a rough example. Following the collision, people called her a murderer. "Murder" is a specific charge and prosecutors would need to consider all circumstances. Hypothetically, she could have been charged with involuntary manslaughter if certain circumstances presented themselves.
A lot could happen from there. In this case, she took a plea deal and pleaded no contest to DUI causing injury/death. While charges may vary by state, DUI causing injury/death is clearly not murder. But if she had gone to trial, a jury could still acquit her regardless of any solid evidence. That woud preclude any legal designation as a "murderer," but wouldn't change the fact the other driver died in the collision. Thus, Tammy would likely be considered guilty of murder in the court of public opinion.
As far as Odyssey goes, "innocent until proven guilty" means little. Furthermore, we don't have any specifics about the domestic violence allegations. Even if prosecutors step in, exact charges could vary. There's a lot that could still come out of all this. But it at least sounds like something happened and it was bad enough for WWE to fire him. Is it bad enough for criminal charges? We don't know that yet. But it would still be possible for Odyssey to have done something wrong. And that would still open him to criticism.
|
|
khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,906
|
Post by khali on Sept 4, 2024 12:54:30 GMT -5
Now that I think about it, why are we even bothering to explain that you can make a judgment on someone before a court of law ever does?
|
|
UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
Wade Wilson
Sponsored by Arizona Green Tea/Peanuts But Only At Baseball Stadiums/Biscuits Cat Adoption Agency
Posts: 26,296
|
Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Sept 4, 2024 13:22:28 GMT -5
I obviously don’t like the guy but I do wonder what the heck happened.
After that initial debut spot of him slamming both of AOP at the same time, I thought he would be untouchable forever. They didn’t care about what he said earlier and got a massive pop. If it’s too bad for WWE it makes you think about what it could be.
|
|
mc74
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,439
|
Post by mc74 on Sept 4, 2024 13:48:06 GMT -5
I obviously don’t like the guy but I do wonder what the heck happened. After that initial debut spot of him slamming both of AOP at the same time, I thought he would be untouchable forever. They didn’t care about what he said earlier and got a massive pop. If it’s too bad for WWE it makes you think about what it could be. Yeah, it makes you wonder what went down because WWE typically doesn't cut someone like that loose unless there's damning evidence. |
|
|
|
Post by gerbilfacedgeek on Sept 4, 2024 13:52:34 GMT -5
Yikes, he REALLY didn't belong with New Day.
|
|
Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 17,642
Member is Online
|
Post by Zone Was Wrong on Sept 4, 2024 14:01:51 GMT -5
So to those that have to see someone go to jail or be convicted in order to judge them, was OJ innocent to you too by chance? Like not only, as many have explained already, does innocent until proven guilty only count in a legal matter, US court systems suck ass as is and when they fail sometimes the court of public opinion as it is is the only judgement people will get.
It is okay to look at irrefutable evidence at hand and pass judgement solely by that standard. While we might not have concrete evidence on Odyssey Jones, we do have past WWE behavior to look at. The company has repeatedly gone to bat or straight up protected people for "lesser" or even similar criminal accusations. Velveteen Dream was one such example of someone with a lot of deviant behavior that was protected for the longest time until he got mass let go. As long as WWE has use for you, they'll usually keep you around despite whatever crap you get into. For them to fire Jones so unceremoniously, there has to be some kind of insane evidence and a monstrous reason tell him to F*** off.
|
|
|
|
Post by Feargus McReddit on Sept 4, 2024 16:02:44 GMT -5
So to those that have to see someone go to jail or be convicted in order to judge them, was OJ innocent to you too by chance? Like not only, as many have explained already, does innocent until proven guilty only count in a legal matter, US court systems suck ass as is and when they fail sometimes the court of public opinion as it is is the only judgement people will get. It is okay to look at irrefutable evidence at hand and pass judgement solely by that standard. While we might not have concrete evidence on Odyssey Jones, we do have past WWE behavior to look at. The company has repeatedly gone to bat or straight up protected people for "lesser" or even similar criminal accusations. Velveteen Dream was one such example of someone with a lot of deviant behavior that was protected for the longest time until he got mass let go. As long as WWE has use for you, they'll usually keep you around despite whatever crap you get into. For them to fire Jones so unceremoniously, there has to be some kind of insane evidence and a monstrous reason tell him to F*** off. Exactly how I see it right now. WWE has batted for people who,frankly, should have been let go a while ago. Dream's a great example because it went to the point HHH said publicly he wasn't going to answer questions about him when he never gave good answers in the first place. Devlin's investigation went completely nowhere and the only reason El Ligero isn't around is because the entire lockerroom publicly turned on the guy and told him to f*** off so they had no choice but to. The less said about Jimmy Snuka the better too but I will add they gave that guy a tribute when he died even after a judge said he likely killed the woman he had been accused of decades before and should stand trial. For them to look at Jones and go "Yeah, we're not even suspending you, you're f***ing done" says a lot about this situation compared to the others. They had to have seen something not widely known yet or heard things that made them back off as quickly as they did considering they were ready to give him a big angle. Especially with the lawyers they have. |
|
MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 14,062
|
Post by MolotovMocktail on Sept 4, 2024 16:15:53 GMT -5
Yikes, he REALLY didn't belong with New Day. Must I go through 11 pages before I make a “Xavier Woods was right” joke? |
|
|
|
Post by chronocross on Sept 4, 2024 16:36:07 GMT -5
Yikes, he REALLY didn't belong with New Day. Must I go through 11 pages before I make a “Xavier Woods was right” joke? It would be if Woods did the same thing Kofi did and bring in another person to help out without Kofi's consent and Omos comes walking down the aisle. Also complete with Woods acting excited and while Kofi is standing there like WTF. |
|
|
|
Post by Final Countdown Jones on Sept 4, 2024 17:11:47 GMT -5
People who really love to bring up the principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' also love to not understand what that actually means in real world terms, how it actually interacts with the legal system, or that individuals can and do hold opinions contrary to the final judgments of courts regularly.
|
|
|
|
Post by sdoyle7798 on Sept 4, 2024 17:20:40 GMT -5
Just continue the storyline but replace him with Omos, with only Xavier having a vague “waitaminute..” look on his face the whole time. Yeeeeeaaaah, probably not a good look to just change black guys out and act like nothing happened. |
|
|
|
Post by callmekc on Sept 4, 2024 18:02:11 GMT -5
Just continue the storyline but replace him with Omos, with only Xavier having a vague “waitaminute..” look on his face the whole time. Yeeeeeaaaah, probably not a good look to just change black guys out and act like nothing happened. how long did we keep the "excellent question Shelton" joke going? |
|
|
|
Post by asellus on Sept 4, 2024 18:13:14 GMT -5
Yeeeeeaaaah, probably not a good look to just change black guys out and act like nothing happened. how long did we keep the "excellent question Shelton" joke going? Too long. |
|
|
|
Post by Stu on Sept 4, 2024 18:19:59 GMT -5
This would be the second time they’d have to reference some controversy. The first being Paige’s video leak
|
|
mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
Posts: 11,886
|
Post by mrbananagrabber on Sept 4, 2024 18:22:31 GMT -5
Just continue the storyline but replace him with Omos, with only Xavier having a vague “waitaminute..” look on his face the whole time. Yeeeeeaaaah, probably not a good look to just change black guys out and act like nothing happened. Well I was joking to begin with, but really isn’t that kind of what Kofi was doing with Big E and Odyssey in the first place? |
|
