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Post by Error on Jan 20, 2007 23:57:23 GMT -5
Well, what was his last match, anyways? I know he had the match with Flair on the 6/3/02 Raw with the no punching stip, then he was to be on the 6/10/02 Raw, then no-showed. Austin's last match was with the Rock. You know, the one where after Rock beat Austin he told him that he loved him and thanked Austin for making his career.
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Hiroshi Hase
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The Good Ol' Days
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Jan 21, 2007 0:00:25 GMT -5
Well, what was his last match, anyways? I know he had the match with Flair on the 6/3/02 Raw with the no punching stip, then he was to be on the 6/10/02 Raw, then no-showed. Austin's last match was with the Rock. You know, the one where after Rock beat Austin he told him that he loved him and thanked Austin for making his career. I think I got the answer already, forgot about WM19, but thanks, no need for the sarcasm though. As for Austin, I'm sure he meant well in not wanting to job to Lesnar on TV, but unless he had creative control in his contract to veto something, he had to do what he was told, whether he liked it or not. Hogan put him over on TV, and made him look like a million bucks, and it didn't hurt him at all and made Lesnar a monster going into his match with the Rock at SS.
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Post by The Jeebus on Jan 21, 2007 0:02:29 GMT -5
Against Rock at WrestleMania 19. That's true, but I don't think at the time in 2002, that Austin even knew if he was coming back or not. WWE had buried him on TV, on various TV programming, it wasn't till late 02-early 03 when negotiations began to bring him back, so I don't think it was a master plan or anything that was in fruition for some time. He did put the Rock over at least in the end which capped off a great storyline, but still the guy should've done his job the year before, despite whether he thought it was good for business or not, unless he had creative control. I agree, I think Austin vs. Rock was an idea brought up probably towards the very end of 2002, if not in 2003. But his very last match was against Rock, and even then he was pushing his health to the very limit. It may not have crossed his mind or have coincided with the Brock Lesnar issue, but at least he didn't refuse to job, walk out, return and dominate the midcard or anything like that. I don't really think Austin was obligated to just 'do his job' in this case, which happened to be to actually job, or more specifically to job on TV. They basically wanted him to wrestle in a throw-away match and job to a guy who was gunna get a monster push either way. He didn't get in the way of any plans, and as it all turned out he didn't hinder Brock's push at all. It was a dumb decision on WWE's part, and it was probably a very wise one on Steve's part. And although generally people should just do their jobs, who knows what the hell goes on in that freak show of a wrestling company.
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Post by Error on Jan 21, 2007 0:07:19 GMT -5
Austin's last match was with the Rock. You know, the one where after Rock beat Austin he told him that he loved him and thanked Austin for making his career. I think I got the answer already, forgot about WM19, but thanks, no need for the sarcasm though. Sorry but, I am sick of people ragging on Austin for something that every major star has done or threatened to do (not saying you are or you aren't). I mean how can it be unprofessional when it is an accepted standard in your profession. I mean when ever Austin is brought up now, this is mentioned but, no one brings up Hogan, Savage, Piper, Flair, Nash, Hall, Triple H, HBK, Bockwinkle, Zybysco, Gagne and the list goes on for when they did/do it. If you don't like him fine but, to hang your hatred on this and to ignore ever other time he put someone over or another major star that you may like did this is just f***ing stupid.
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Hiroshi Hase
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The Good Ol' Days
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Jan 21, 2007 0:08:25 GMT -5
As mentioned by others, Austin may have wanted to do an extended program with Lesnar that pushed more than a throwaway match would, but the fact is he had to do what was asked of him and he didn't comply. Noble as it is, it's not permitted unless he has control over his character and decide how to do things.
WWE mucks up things a lot, but he has to just go with the flow and do what he was told, in the long run it wouldn't have hurt as badly as most would think, it certainly beats losing to Coach.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 21, 2007 0:11:16 GMT -5
If this is true, I channel Ron Simmons and I say... DAMN! It wasn't enough having Hogan looming all over WrestleMania (and over the whole WWE), now we have another broken down Icon around. And he has a movie coming out, so there's no way we can get spared another useless run down Memory Lane (and Sunset Boulevard). Austin's appearence on RAW Homecoming was beyond boring and awful, but no... let's cream our pants to the sole idea of another shortest-term program for easy bucks and no gain in the big scheme of things... Way to go WWE!!! If I MUST get bored, I'd rather watch Orton or Cena or Umaga... at least there's the (remote?) chance they can actually IMPROVE and finally get interesting... Watching Austin delivering stunners left and right, kickink-punching and flipping his opponent (that's what's left of his moveset), drinking beer and blabbing the same old catchphrases... that's old hat. Been there, seen that and I know that's going nowehere. So why bother? Spot on. Does anyone actually remember Austin's GM/Sheriff/grand poobah/etc days where he would basically punk out any and every heel that got in his way, usually leaving them laying via stunners? Look, I loved Austin during his height and I appreciate what he's done for wrestling, but him coming back in any capacity does only one thing, and that is put himself over.
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Post by The Jeebus on Jan 21, 2007 0:12:07 GMT -5
As mentioned by others, Austin may have wanted to do an extended program with Lesnar that pushed more than a throwaway match would, but the fact is he had to do what was asked of him and he didn't comply. Noble as it is, it's not permitted unless he has control over his character and decide how to do things. He was the biggest draw for five years prior, I'm pretty sure he had creative control.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,792
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 21, 2007 0:13:48 GMT -5
I think I got the answer already, forgot about WM19, but thanks, no need for the sarcasm though. Sorry but, I am sick of people ragging on Austin for something that every major star has done or threatened to do (not saying you are or you aren't). I mean how can it be unprofessional when it is an accepted standard in your profession. I mean when ever Austin is brought up now, this is mentioned but, no one brings up Hogan, Savage, Piper, Flair, Nash, Hall, Triple H, HBK, Bockwinkle, Zybysco, Gagne and the list goes on for when they did/do it. If you don't like him fine but, to hang your hatred on this and to ignore ever other time he put someone over or another major star that you may like did this is just waxing stupid. With all due respect, EVERYONE brings this up whenever HHH, Hogan, HBK, Nash are all mentioned. If it applies to them , it applies to Austin. You cant shit all over those guys and then give Austin a free pass
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Post by EZ: Broken Bae on Jan 21, 2007 0:15:47 GMT -5
Because Austin never ended up negatively affecting anyone.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,792
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 21, 2007 0:17:59 GMT -5
Because Austin never hindered anyone. I invite you to consider Kane's one day reign, Triple H in the summer of 99, and Jeff Jarret , also in '99 before saying that.
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Post by EZ: Broken Bae on Jan 21, 2007 0:27:39 GMT -5
I ended up editing my post to clarify what I meant.
But I did consider them.
Kane remained immensely over. And as far as I know, Austin didn't demand the title back on him as much as it being a dubious booking decision (I do think Kane shoud've been champ longer though). And Kane still hasn't held the belt after Austin left (still a travesty).
HHH has become one of the WWE history elite, and Austin even lost his feud and later teamed with Triple H.
Jeff Jarrett? I'm a fan of his, but that's reaching for straws. This is probably the only one where there isn't a good justification. But still, Jarrett .....
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,792
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 21, 2007 0:34:14 GMT -5
I ended up editing my post to clarify what I meant. But I did consider them. Kane remained immensely over. And as far as I know, Austin didn't demand the title back on him as much as it being a dubious booking decision (I do think Kane shoud've been champ longer though). HHH has become one of the WWE history elite, and Austin even lost his feud and later teamed with Triple H. Jeff Jarrett? I'm a fan of his, but that's reaching for straws. This is probably the only one where there isn't a good justification. But still, Jarrett ..... Kane might have been dubious booking, but did Austin really need to go over him CLEANLY, 24 hours after beating him? (it indirectly made Taker look like an ass too, as he barely beat Kane at WM14) Maybe its more booking than Austin himself , I dunno) Weather or not HHH became a big star or not, Austin DID refuse to job to him, and only Mick Foley agreeing to be a professional saved that from disaster. Austin did lose to HHH but it was 2 years later and AFTER HHH had been put over huge by Foley/Rock Jarrett was never even given a shot. I dont even like the guy, but that was bullshit. Again, people crucify HHH for "burying people" and yet Austin does it and its ok (not saying you, but Ive seen countless others turn a blind eye)
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Post by Van Loki - Suck it, ECW on Jan 21, 2007 0:35:34 GMT -5
Who cares what happens behind the scenes, and who are we to judge? Oh Austin didn't do the job oh this and that. So what?
HE WILL STUN YOU!!!!!
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Jan 21, 2007 0:37:22 GMT -5
WT4A? Weird.
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Post by Banned Member on Jan 21, 2007 0:40:08 GMT -5
Who cares what happens behind the scenes, and who are we to judge? Oh Austin didn't do the job oh this and that. So what? HE WILL STUN YOU!!!!! I'm an SCSA fan, but damn man!!! What the hell! Take that Bs somewhere else.
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Post by EZ: Broken Bae on Jan 21, 2007 0:42:33 GMT -5
I ended up editing my post to clarify what I meant. But I did consider them. Kane remained immensely over. And as far as I know, Austin didn't demand the title back on him as much as it being a dubious booking decision (I do think Kane shoud've been champ longer though). HHH has become one of the WWE history elite, and Austin even lost his feud and later teamed with Triple H. Jeff Jarrett? I'm a fan of his, but that's reaching for straws. This is probably the only one where there isn't a good justification. But still, Jarrett ..... Kane might have been dubious booking, but did Austin really need to go over him CLEANLY, 24 hours after beating him? (it indirectly made Taker look like an ass too, as he barely beat Kane at WM14) Maybe its more booking than Austin himself , I dunno) Weather or not HHH became a big star or not, Austin DID refuse to job to him, and only Mick Foley agreeing to be a professional saved that from disaster. Austin did lose to HHH but it was 2 years later and AFTER HHH had been put over huge by Foley/Rock Jarrett was never even given a shot. I dont even like the guy, but that was bullcrap. Again, people crucify HHH for "burying people" and yet Austin does it and its ok (not saying you, but Ive seen countless others turn a blind eye) And that's fine. I'm not saying he NEVER refused to job, I just happen to think that when doing so, he didn't bury anybody. I'm a HUGE HHH defender, like, HUGE, but I really can't defend him on how he beat up Hurricane after Rock put him over, from which Hurricane did much of nothing after until he moved to SD. Nash going over Goldberg was ridiculous and accomplished nothing, and Goldberg never got as popular as he was before that. Hogan deserves no coverage. Austin didn't end up hindering anybody. HHH got mega-huge, Jarrett burned his bridges with WWE and went to WCW and TNA, where he became WCW champion and TNA champion for god knows how many times, and Lesnar became the face of WWE for about 2 years before he waxed himself over. It just doesn't feel logical. Hogan, Nash, HHH, HBK ........ Austin?
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Post by Error on Jan 21, 2007 0:42:52 GMT -5
With all due respect, EVERYONE brings this up whenever HHH, Hogan, HBK, Nash are all mentioned. If it applies to them , it applies to Austin. You cant crap all over those guys and then give Austin a free pass I know it is brought up when those 4 (5 counting Austin) are brought up but, NO ONE brings it in regards to Piper, Flair and Savage who are talked about on here a lot. Maybe its the fact they haven't done squat in the "Internet Era" so there is nothing to talk about regarding them but, they have all admitted to walking out or threatening to. I am not saying Austin deserves a free pass, far from it. It was the decision he made and it will be debated as to whether right or wrong forever. I just think it is stupid to base your opinion on someone based on something that every major person in the business has done which it seems a lot of people have done.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,792
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 21, 2007 0:45:54 GMT -5
Kane might have been dubious booking, but did Austin really need to go over him CLEANLY, 24 hours after beating him? (it indirectly made Taker look like an ass too, as he barely beat Kane at WM14) Maybe its more booking than Austin himself , I dunno) Weather or not HHH became a big star or not, Austin DID refuse to job to him, and only Mick Foley agreeing to be a professional saved that from disaster. Austin did lose to HHH but it was 2 years later and AFTER HHH had been put over huge by Foley/Rock Jarrett was never even given a shot. I dont even like the guy, but that was bullcrap. Again, people crucify HHH for "burying people" and yet Austin does it and its ok (not saying you, but Ive seen countless others turn a blind eye) And that's fine. I'm not saying he NEVER refused to job, I just happen to think that when doing so, he didn't bury anybody. I'm a HUGE HHH defender, like, HUGE, but I really can't defend him on how he beat up Hurricane after Rock put him over, from which Hurricane did much of nothing after until he moved to SD. Nash going over Goldberg was ridiculous and accomplished nothing, and Goldberg never got as popular as he was before that. Hogan deserves no coverage. Austin didn't end up hindering anybody. HHH got mega-huge, Jarrett burned his bridges with WWE and went to WCW and TNA, where he became WCW champion and TNA champion for god knows how many times, and Lesnar became the face of WWE for about 2 years before he waxed himself over. It just doesn't feel logical. Hogan, Nash, HHH ........ Austin? Oh, I dont think Austin is anywhere near Hogan or HBK (mid 90's) or HHH circa 02-03 in terms of that stuff, I was just playing devil's advocate here
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Post by EZ: Broken Bae on Jan 21, 2007 0:47:43 GMT -5
And that's fine. I'm not saying he NEVER refused to job, I just happen to think that when doing so, he didn't bury anybody. I'm a HUGE HHH defender, like, HUGE, but I really can't defend him on how he beat up Hurricane after Rock put him over, from which Hurricane did much of nothing after until he moved to SD. Nash going over Goldberg was ridiculous and accomplished nothing, and Goldberg never got as popular as he was before that. Hogan deserves no coverage. Austin didn't end up hindering anybody. HHH got mega-huge, Jarrett burned his bridges with WWE and went to WCW and TNA, where he became WCW champion and TNA champion for god knows how many times, and Lesnar became the face of WWE for about 2 years before he waxed himself over. It just doesn't feel logical. Hogan, Nash, HHH ........ Austin? Oh, I dont think Austin is anywhere near Hogan or HBK (mid 90's) or HHH circa 02-03 in terms of that stuff, I was just playing devil's advocate here And that's cool. I do that a lot myself. But I'm still gonna go ape**** the next time I hear that glass shatter ;D
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,792
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 21, 2007 0:49:51 GMT -5
Oh, I dont think Austin is anywhere near Hogan or HBK (mid 90's) or HHH circa 02-03 in terms of that stuff, I was just playing devil's advocate here And that's cool. I do that a lot myself. But I'm still gonna go ape**** the next time I hear that glass shatter ;D I'd love Austin back, but I just want him to help give someone the rub while he's around. Otherwise, it's a bit of a waste IMO
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