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Post by heyman on Jan 15, 2007 8:47:14 GMT -5
Its like yeah we all know that he cant do a lot of things that other wrestlers do but his Charisma is so overwhelming that we cheer for him anyway. Like for example when the NWO took on Stone Cold and The Rock back in 2002 and Hogan was whipping up the rock and did the simple leg drop everyone marked for him. Does anyone else feel the same way about hogan?
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Post by willywonka666 on Jan 15, 2007 8:52:17 GMT -5
I still to this day and always will get a chill when I see him "Hulk up" during a match, even during the matches I've seen several times from 15 to 20 years ago. It is the charisma for me, Call me a bad fan, but I don't care about his workrate, I'd rather see a typical Hogan match, than a Kurt Angle classic
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Post by SparkyPlugg on Jan 15, 2007 8:54:41 GMT -5
HULK RULES!
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Post by Bobafett on Jan 15, 2007 9:08:52 GMT -5
yeah there is something..its crap
I'm sorry but how on earth can newer talents get a chance if they keep dragging him up? and don't give me the "but there is no-one as big as him" well there won't be if we have that attitude I mean come on, there are others that deserve our regard and respect alot more than him
guys like Flair, HBK, Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Randy Savage, HHH, Austin, RVD, Benoit, Eddie and Rey to name a few
guys who would go out all the time and bust their butts to entertain the crowd and in most cases putting their bodies and Health on the line, and yet everyone prefers to idolise a guy who has been doing the same routine for years, living off a reputation that, yes was earned, but look at last twp years of Summerslam, bringing him in to go over regular workers? plus what image is WWE putting out by bringing guys like him back all the time? I know what it is
"we have no desire or no faith in any of our current men to become big ppv draws"
pople compare Hogan to Babe Ruth, ok, but at least baseball fans admit that there are other people in the sport just as great
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Johnny Danger (Godz)
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Jan 15, 2007 9:13:24 GMT -5
^ How can newer talents get a chance? Good point. Those 3 promos and 1 match a year that Hogan works totally holds down the entire roster.
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Jan 15, 2007 9:16:27 GMT -5
yeah there is something..its crap I'm sorry but how on earth can newer talents get a chance if they keep dragging him up? and don't give me the "but there is no-one as big as him" well there won't be if we have that attitude I mean come on, there are others that deserve our regard and respect alot more than him guys like Flair, HBK, Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Randy Savage, HHH, Austin, RVD, Benoit, Eddie and Rey to name a few guys who would go out all the time and bust their butts to entertain the crowd and in most cases putting their bodies and Health on the line, and yet everyone prefers to idolise a guy who has been doing the same routine for years, living off a reputation that, yes was earned, but look at last twp years of Summerslam, bringing him in to go over regular workers? plus what image is WWE putting out by bringing guys like him back all the time? I know what it is "we have no desire or no faith in any of our current men to become big ppv draws" pople compare Hogan to Babe Ruth, ok, but at least baseball fans admit that there are other people in the sport just as great You're absolutely right, WWE has no faith in their men, but can you blame them, I doubt people would be buying PPV's with Carlito or Nitro in a singles main event. They're decent, but hardly worth watching,IMO. Why do the men you mentioned deserve our respect more than Hogan, because you don't like him? It's not like the guy won a Tough Enough competition, he had to go into wrestling the hard way with a grizzled veteran such as Hiro Matsuda who broke his leg to see if he'd come back, and Hogan was determined enough to do so, whereas most would whimper and fade away. That's tough,IMO whether you like the guy or not. As for the last 2 years at Summerslam, in the storylines mentioned it made sense for Hogan to go over. I know it's a wet dream for some people here to see Hogan lose clean and get punked out on the mic also, but things don't work that way. He had to beat HBK (heel in this storyline), the guy turned on him during a match and was running him down on the mic each week, you'd have Hogan (face) lose even after all that? Sorry but that makes no sense to me. Couple that with HBK's whining about jobbing, which I found hypocritical as he's gotten on Bret about it, that made me lose a bit of respect for HBK. I admit there are others in Hogan's league such as Flair, Piper, Austin, Rock and Savage, but this current crop of young stars are hardly memorable.
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Post by amsiraK on Jan 15, 2007 9:17:25 GMT -5
I don't think newer talent is held back solely by Hogan, but he's a contributor to the problem. Instead of using him to help put over someone younger and deserving *pause to let universe stop laughing*, they bring him back to bury someone and then leave. (I'm talking the last few years.)
And Bobafett... you have to remember, the wrestling industry doesn't gauge success like we do. While we're looking at/for stellar matches and killer promos and fantastic shows... they're looking at the money. So to them, K-Fed vs. John Cena is a success because it (the show) brought in lots of money and ratings. While we have to agonize through it because it's terrible.
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Post by skskillz on Jan 15, 2007 9:17:42 GMT -5
Its like yeah we all know that he cant do a lot of things that other wrestlers do but his Charisma is so overwhelming that we cheer for him anyway. Like for example when the NWO took on Stone Cold and The Rock back in 2002 and Hogan was whipping up the rock and did the simple leg drop everyone marked for him. Does anyone else feel the same way about hogan? Hogan today? Not as much. Hogan of the '80's, '90's, and 2002? Absolutely. Guys like Hogan, Rock, Roberts, Savage, etc, won't ever be duplicated. Why? Because they only did what they HAD to do in the ring. Hogan had a formula in the U.S. It worked. So he kept doing it. When he went to Japan, his entire style changed. That's the mark of a true pro wrestler. Today guys are killing themselves to get 5% of the pop Hogan and Rock got just for staring at the crowd. It's remarkable. Charisma and the ability to give the crowd what it wants is a rare gift. That's one thing I really appreciate about wrestling. The great workers can really put the crowd in the palm of their hands, regardless of their perceived in-ring "talent".
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Jan 15, 2007 9:23:30 GMT -5
I think people are just bitter than Hogan gets more of a pop dropping the same Leg he's dropped for 20 years from 3 feet off the ground than Carlito ever will doing his Springboard Molasses Special.
And that's not nessacarily a flame or anything, as I feel the same way about other people. I've complained for years about how The Rock can just waltz back into wrestling whenever he likes and get a match at WrestleMania, but you've had (at one point or another) hardworking guys on the roster like Lance Storm, Tommy Dreamer, and Stevie Richards who have never seen action at WrestleMania and likely never will.
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Post by amsiraK on Jan 15, 2007 9:23:45 GMT -5
yeah there is something..its crap I'm sorry but how on earth can newer talents get a chance if they keep dragging him up? and don't give me the "but there is no-one as big as him" well there won't be if we have that attitude I mean come on, there are others that deserve our regard and respect alot more than him guys like Flair, HBK, Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Randy Savage, HHH, Austin, RVD, Benoit, Eddie and Rey to name a few guys who would go out all the time and bust their butts to entertain the crowd and in most cases putting their bodies and Health on the line, and yet everyone prefers to idolise a guy who has been doing the same routine for years, living off a reputation that, yes was earned, but look at last twp years of Summerslam, bringing him in to go over regular workers? plus what image is WWE putting out by bringing guys like him back all the time? I know what it is "we have no desire or no faith in any of our current men to become big ppv draws" pople compare Hogan to Babe Ruth, ok, but at least baseball fans admit that there are other people in the sport just as great You're absolutely right, WWE has no faith in their men, but can you blame them, I doubt people would be buying PPV's with Carlito or Nitro in a singles main event. They're decent, but hardly worth watching,IMO. Why do the men you mentioned deserve our respect more than Hogan, because you don't like him? It's not like the guy won a Tough Enough competition, he had to go into wrestling the hard way with a grizzled veteran such as Hiro Matsuda who broke his leg to see if he'd come back, and Hogan was determined enough to do so, whereas most would whimper and fade away. That's tough,IMO whether you like the guy or not. As for the last 2 years at Summerslam, in the storylines mentioned it made sense for Hogan to go over. I know it's a wet dream for some people here to see Hogan lose clean and get punked out on the mic also, but things don't work that way. He had to beat HBK (heel in this storyline), the guy turned on him during a match and was running him down on the mic each week, you'd have Hogan (face) lose even after all that? Sorry but that makes no sense to me. Couple that with HBK's whining about jobbing, which I found hypocritical as he's gotten on Bret about it, that made me lose a bit of respect for HBK. I admit there are others in Hogan's league such as Flair, Piper, Austin, Rock and Savage, but this current crop of young stars are hardly memorable. And whose fault is that? I lay a lot of blame at the feet of the WWE for not doing what they could to really develop their undercard. We get thousands of Triple H versus Wrestler X matches and everyone else is B-list as far as the E is concerned. Then, when Tripsy's quad snaps, they're stuck with everyone they had ignored all that time. (And I like Triple H, but you'd think they'd have learned from last time, fer gawd's sake.) They should concentrate on building up their roster. They can't be fantastic if they're not given anything. This isn't the time of way-out characters that catch everyone's eye anymore.
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Jan 15, 2007 9:27:47 GMT -5
You're absolutely right, WWE has no faith in their men, but can you blame them, I doubt people would be buying PPV's with Carlito or Nitro in a singles main event. They're decent, but hardly worth watching,IMO. Why do the men you mentioned deserve our respect more than Hogan, because you don't like him? It's not like the guy won a Tough Enough competition, he had to go into wrestling the hard way with a grizzled veteran such as Hiro Matsuda who broke his leg to see if he'd come back, and Hogan was determined enough to do so, whereas most would whimper and fade away. That's tough,IMO whether you like the guy or not. As for the last 2 years at Summerslam, in the storylines mentioned it made sense for Hogan to go over. I know it's a wet dream for some people here to see Hogan lose clean and get punked out on the mic also, but things don't work that way. He had to beat HBK (heel in this storyline), the guy turned on him during a match and was running him down on the mic each week, you'd have Hogan (face) lose even after all that? Sorry but that makes no sense to me. Couple that with HBK's whining about jobbing, which I found hypocritical as he's gotten on Bret about it, that made me lose a bit of respect for HBK. I admit there are others in Hogan's league such as Flair, Piper, Austin, Rock and Savage, but this current crop of young stars are hardly memorable. And whose fault is that? I lay a lot of blame at the feet of the WWE for not doing what they could to really develop their undercard. We get thousands of Triple H versus Wrestler X matches and everyone else is B-list as far as the E is concerned. Then, when Tripsy's quad snaps, they're stuck with everyone they had ignored all that time. (And I like Triple H, but you'd think they'd have learned from last time, fer gawd's sake.) They should concentrate on building up their roster. They can't be fantastic if they're not given anything. This isn't the time of way-out characters that catch everyone's eye anymore. I agree, it's up to WWE to remedy that problem, but in times like this seeing as they haven't brought up anyone, they got to stick with such luminaries as the Great Khali as a back up plan (the same guy who couldn't work a live match before on SD/ECW). I think you do need way-out characters, it's sports entertainment and as much as I dislike how WWE is (mainly Raw), that's how Vince is. He's more interested in larger than life characters who can draw money, he could care less about wrestler A who can work 60 minutes or wrestler B who has a great "workrate".
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Post by SparkyPlugg on Jan 15, 2007 9:29:02 GMT -5
Why do people keep complaining that Hogan doesn't do the job?
95% of wrestling fans want him to win so why not give them what they want when he wrestles on the rare occasion.
It doesn't hurt anyone to job to Hogan. It's hardly the biggest blemish on anyones record.
Most guys in the locker room would be queing up for the chance to be in a high profile match with Hogan, not to mention the cash that goes with it.
As for holding back other wrestlers, who cares? The WWE is doing a good enough job of burying the talent that they have all by themselves.
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Post by amsiraK on Jan 15, 2007 9:35:15 GMT -5
I agree, it's up to WWE to remedy that problem, but in times like this seeing as they haven't brought up anyone, they got to stick with such luminaries as the Great Khali as a back up plan (the same guy who couldn't work a live match before on SD/ECW). I think you do need way-out characters, it's sports entertainment and as much as I dislike how WWE is (mainly Raw), that's how Vince is. He's more interested in larger than life characters who can draw money, he could care less about wrestler A who can work 60 minutes or wrestler B who has a great "workrate". Which is nuts, IMO, because great matches help to make great characters. It's not the only thing, but it's important to the fans. Look at Lesnar and Goldberg from Mania XX. Two guys that were what Vince liked - big, amazing characters. But the match was terrible in so many ways and the crowd turned on it. It's considered a huge failure among fans. But I'm sure the E didn't think so, as Mania drew lots of money that year. And I think some larger than life characters could work, if they're not ridiculous. Someone like Macho Man could work now, given the right opportunity. Because he was a special character that caught people's attention, but he wasn't a total joke. I think the E has come too far to go too far back, if that makes any sense. Some things that worked before probably wouldn't now.
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Jan 15, 2007 9:37:08 GMT -5
Why do people keep complaining that Hogan doesn't do the job? 95% of wrestling fans want him to win so why not give them what they want when he wrestles on the rare occasion. It doesn't hurt anyone to job to Hogan. It's hardly the biggest blemish on anyones record. Most guys in the locker room would be queing up for the chance to be in a high profile match with Hogan, not to mention the cash that goes with it. As for holding back other wrestlers, who cares? The WWE is doing a good enough job of burying the talent that they have all by themselves. Exactly, who's career is in worse shape: Shawn Michaels, who lost to Hogan on PPV, and has been the main event face (along with HHH and i guess Cena) on RAW ever since, Randy Orton, who lost to Hogan on PPV and is now a tag champ and constant heel main eventer, or the legions of guys who have never worked Hogan and have the same boring cookie-cutter midcard match every week?
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Post by skskillz on Jan 15, 2007 9:37:13 GMT -5
I think people are just bitter than Hogan gets more of a pop dropping the same Leg he's dropped for 20 years from 3 feet off the ground than Carlito ever will doing his Springboard Molasses Special. And that's not nessacarily a flame or anything, as I feel the same way about other people. I've complained for years about how The Rock can just waltz back into wrestling whenever he likes and get a match at WrestleMania, but you've had (at one point or another) hardworking guys on the roster like Lance Storm, Tommy Dreamer, and Stevie Richards who have never seen action at WrestleMania and likely never will. I think that's exactly it. The Rock got similar treatment when he was active with people claiming he said the same things, did the same things, pinned wrestlers with an exaggerated elbow drop, etc, etc. The fact that people hate wrestlers who can do a formula and make it work without trying to kill themselves every night is kind of sad. Mick Foley and Kurt Angle won't be able to walk in 5 years because of that logic. This forum is like high school, and considering a good percentage of posters might still be in high school, or maybe college, it's understandable. They hate what's popular, and claim to like what no one really puts emphasis on (like you mentioned Lance Storm, Richards, etc). The same people who think Derek Jeter is overrated while (insert short-stop) is better but doesn't get the same recognition. It's not about the sport at all, it's about favoring what's NOT popular. That's where most posters here fall into. Ten years from now, it'll be easy to say Hulk Hogan was your favorite wrestler. But if someone says Kurt Angle was their favorite, that person feels like he's above the person who said Hogan. At this point, it's clear Hogan will never get respect on this forum or on the internet in general, so it's kind of pointless to keep making these threads. When the Two Man Power Trip, a gimmick that featured a pointless heel turn and a few months worth of heel beatdowns is neck and neck with the Mega Powers on this forum, it's clear that the posters who are 25 and above are going to be phased out very soon.
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Jan 15, 2007 9:40:54 GMT -5
But, I....really do like Lance Storm and Stevie Richards!
I get your point and pretty much agree with it though. Most people dont think I'm serious when I say I'd rather see Stevie, Storm, Dreamer, Snow, Balls, etc, than Rock, Lesnar, Goldberg, Bret Hart, Cena, Orton, and Batista...but I've liked lots of midcarders and underused guys. I was the first Foley fan amongst my group of friends, and when everyone else was watching Goldberg in WCW, I'd only watch if I was flipping and caught Raven or Mortis.
Totally agree about Austin/HHH vs Megapowers. Megapowers gave us a year of an awesome team and then one of the most memorable Mania matches of all time. Austin/HHH....beat the s*** out of Lita that one time.
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Post by amsiraK on Jan 15, 2007 9:42:00 GMT -5
Since when? We've got plenty of posters over 25. Just because someone has an opinion doesn't mean those with opposing opinions aren't welcome.
And for the record, I'm over 25 and I've NEVER liked Hogan. Even as a kid, I couldn't take his hackneyed nonsense.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 15, 2007 9:42:26 GMT -5
Why do people keep complaining that Hogan doesn't do the job? 95% of wrestling fans want him to win so why not give them what they want when he wrestles on the rare occasion. The sure didn't care about the guy 95% of the fans wanted to win at Unforgiven with Edge vs. Cena, and they damn sure didn't care about the guy 95% of the fans wanted to win in the Extreme Elimination Chamber. If they want Hogan to win, fine, but saying they put him over because the fans want it is giving WWE far too much credit. They have shown that they could give a crap what the fans want.
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Post by amsiraK on Jan 15, 2007 9:43:51 GMT -5
Why do people keep complaining that Hogan doesn't do the job? 95% of wrestling fans want him to win so why not give them what they want when he wrestles on the rare occasion. The sure didn't care about the guy 95% of the crowd wanted to win at Unforgiven with Edge vs. Cena, and they damn sure didn't care about the guy 95% of the crowd wanted to win in the Extreme Elimination Chamber. If they want Hogan to win, fine, but saying they put him over because the crowd wants it is giving WWE far too much credit. They have shown that they could give a crap what the fans want. Which is SUCH bad business in every segment of the world marketplace... except for wrestling. Though a focus group wouldn't kill them now and then.
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Jan 15, 2007 9:45:14 GMT -5
Why do people keep complaining that Hogan doesn't do the job? 95% of wrestling fans want him to win so why not give them what they want when he wrestles on the rare occasion. The sure didn't care about the guy 95% of the fans wanted to win at Unforgiven with Edge vs. Cena, and they damn sure didn't care about the guy 95% of the fans wanted to win in the Extreme Elimination Chamber. If they want Hogan to win, fine, but saying they put him over because the fans want it is giving WWE far too much credit. They have shown that they could give a crap what the fans want. You do have a point, especially with the D2D main event, but most times when Hogan wins the crowd pops huge for it, so it seems they do want it. Now if he were to get a Conway or Carlito pop after his win, then I can understand.
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