Corporate H
Grimlock
He Buries Them Alive
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Post by Corporate H on Sept 9, 2007 9:13:21 GMT -5
Yeah, it's really not the "believability" it's the credibility in kayfabe thing Trips means. So Flair isn't credible then? I can understand now since he hasn't been made to look like a main eventer, but anybody can look like Superman with the right backing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2007 9:15:04 GMT -5
I really don't understand WWE's logic with this.
They have Ric Flair, one of the greatest wrestlers of all time on their roster, and they do nothing with him. Yeah, he's winding down now or whatever, but they could've done a lot more than they did with Flair. The only good thing they've done with him in recent months is have him put over Carlito, but I feel that his move to SmackDown has been more bad than good.
I like the idea of people trying to 'retire' Flair, across all three brands. Whoever goes over Flair in the end would get over huge and would be one of the promotion's next biggest stars (Personally, I'd select John Morrison to go over Flair in the end ... I have a feeling that we'll be seeing him as WWE Champion within the next few years). But, nope. Naitch is pushed to the sidelines yet again. This is annoying, especially when the creative team can't come up with any good storylines.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2007 9:15:17 GMT -5
I never understood why it's always the reason for doing something based soley on the fact that it's happened before as in the case with Hogan. That's like when you're a kid and you want an ice cream cone, your parents shoot it down and you say "but Jimmy's parents got HIM an ice cream cone!" Again, I respect Flair for all he's done, but he's not owed anything for continually sticking around in an era that doesn't really need him, sad but true. Agree. There's been talk of Flair retiring since the mid 90s. The fact that he's still around in 2007 is a tad ridiculous. I would've have him wrestle Dusty Rhodes one last time at WM24 and have it be both their retirement matches. But there's no way I'd put Flair on any sort of winning streak over younger talent.
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Post by chickenwhopper on Sept 9, 2007 9:18:07 GMT -5
Yeah, it's really not the "believability" it's the credibility in kayfabe thing Trips means. So Flair isn't credible then? I can understand now since he hasn't been made to look like a main eventer, but anybody can look like Superman with the right backing. I agree with your logic, because we have guys like Khali as champ. However it's not about rectifying that by giving others shots at gold, because it's not the best for business (I know it's Flair, but I don't think long term or even short, it's desirable by fans).
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Post by Super Nimieboo on Sept 9, 2007 9:19:07 GMT -5
Yeah, it's really not the "believability" it's the credibility in kayfabe thing Trips means. So Flair isn't credible then? I can understand now since he hasn't been made to look like a main eventer, but anybody can look like Superman with the right backing. I think he means Flair's old and no one's ego wants to job to that. ...certainly not HHH's.
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Post by mysterydriver on Sept 9, 2007 9:19:52 GMT -5
The Babe Ruth of Wrestling would have been a good thing to run with. Then again, Trips seems set to be the Barry Bonds of Wrestling by breaking the World Title streak by any means necessary. Oh so that's why he's had all those title runs as of late And I think that Triple H is smart enough to know that he couldn't top what Flair ever was because Flair was a top name in ANY promotion he worked with and eventually became their title holder. In Triple H's case, he's only been a top name in WWE. I really wish this immature rumor would stop Ahhhhh...Nothing like being called immature in the morning. I don't want to turn this thread into another needless Triple H debate, but it's obvious that he's a big fan of Ric Flair even though he is apparently now saying Flair shouldn't win. It's your opinion that Trips knows he couldn't top Flair and it's my opinion that he'll probably try anyway. Let's just leave it at that. The point is "Babe Ruth of Wrestling" would've been an awesome moniker for Flair, but it leaves others open comments like I made. I mean, who would be the "Mickey Mantle of Wrestling"?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2007 9:20:08 GMT -5
Flair might be old, but he's more over than 90% of the roster. It's true.
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Corporate H
Grimlock
He Buries Them Alive
Posts: 13,829
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Post by Corporate H on Sept 9, 2007 9:20:23 GMT -5
So Flair isn't credible then? I can understand now since he hasn't been made to look like a main eventer, but anybody can look like Superman with the right backing. I agree with your logic, because we have guys like Khali as champ. However it's not about rectifying that by giving others shots at gold, because it's not the best for business (I know it's Flair, but I don't think long term or even short, it's desirable by fans). Yeah, but if the plan was to have him lose at 'Mania anyways he'd be putting over another talent greatly by giving them his final match. Hell, it could have been the end of the "Legend Killer" gimmick for Randy Orton.
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Post by chickenwhopper on Sept 9, 2007 9:21:14 GMT -5
Also the gratitude from the fans alone after his last match is worth more than any belt, storyline or match Flair could've had. So nothing has to be justified to give him any more respect than what he's already earned.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Sept 9, 2007 9:21:43 GMT -5
Normally, I'm not for old guys going over young guys, but this storyline idea is BRILLIANT! This is money in the bank. It's simple, easily understood by your average fan, and would make some great matches. No wonder WWE Creative had trouble getting the ball rolling on it.
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Post by skillz on Sept 9, 2007 9:21:46 GMT -5
I never understood why it's always the reason for doing something based soley on the fact that it's happened before as in the case with Hogan. That's like when you're a kid and you want an ice cream cone, your parents shoot it down and you say "but Jimmy's parents got HIM an ice cream cone!" Again, I respect Flair for all he's done, but he's not owed anything for continually sticking around in an era that doesn't really need him, sad but true. Agreed. Hogan can get away with it because of his name. He is the biggest name in wrestling history and was smart enough to protect his credibility (i.e. not jobbing clean to Rico). Hogan is the exception in wrestling, not the norm. HHH is right. Flair going over a younger star is unrealistic at this point. He's jobbed so much over the years and doesn't have the body to make up for his noticeable aging. The fact that Flair's name is greatly overrated (when has he ever made money for the WWF/E?) is an influence as well.
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salTy
El Dandy
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Post by salTy on Sept 9, 2007 9:23:17 GMT -5
The retirement angle sounds awesome. That's a shame.
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Sept 9, 2007 9:23:51 GMT -5
During a dry run where the ratings were still plummeting I guess Hogan's nostaglia run is way more important than Flair's, since even the youngest WWE mark understands who Hogan is and not Flair. But still, what a way for a legend to go out. Looks like Hogan won afterall. Not really, Hogan went out after being Mr. America and being buddies with Zack Gowen. Hogan's ending is just as embarrassing, even more the Flair.
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Corporate H
Grimlock
He Buries Them Alive
Posts: 13,829
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Post by Corporate H on Sept 9, 2007 9:25:02 GMT -5
I guess Hogan's nostaglia run is way more important than Flair's, since even the youngest WWE mark understands who Hogan is and not Flair. But still, what a way for a legend to go out. Looks like Hogan won afterall. Not really, Hogan went out after being Mr. America and being buddies with Zack Gowen. Hogan's ending is just as embarrassing, even more the Flair. He did beat one of WWE's greatest prospects in one Randy K. Orton.
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Post by chickenwhopper on Sept 9, 2007 9:27:05 GMT -5
Ahhhhh...Nothing like being called immature in the morning. I don't want to turn this thread into another needless Triple H debate, but it's obvious that he's a big fan of Ric Flair even though he is apparently now saying Flair shouldn't win. It's your opinion that Trips knows he couldn't top Flair and it's my opinion that he'll probably try anyway. Let's just leave it at that. The point is "Babe Ruth of Wrestling" would've been an awesome moniker for Flair, but it leaves others open comments like I made. I mean, who would be the "Mickey Mantle of Wrestling"? I wasn't calling you immature, I was saying that rumor is. And if Triple H was going to "top" Flair, then he should've kept up his old routine of continually winning the belt. But that hasn't happened, and he won't break his record, why? First off, he's in no condition to hold the belt 12 more times (Flair won the World belt 22 times even though only 16 are recognized by WWE), his quads aren't going to hold up for 10 more years nor is his body. What you need to realize about the character of Triple H back in '02-03 was that his character was "obsessed" with being champ, not so much anymore. Just remember, it's a character not a real image. It's a belt, nothing more, nothing less. And you're not immature
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Post by angryfan on Sept 9, 2007 9:28:57 GMT -5
I never understood why it's always the reason for doing something based soley on the fact that it's happened before as in the case with Hogan. That's like when you're a kid and you want an ice cream cone, your parents shoot it down and you say "but Jimmy's parents got HIM an ice cream cone!" Again, I respect Flair for all he's done, but he's not owed anything for continually sticking around in an era that doesn't really need him, sad but true. Agreed. Hogan can get away with it because of his name. He is the biggest name in wrestling history and was smart enough to protect his credibility (i.e. not jobbing clean to Rico). Hogan is the exception in wrestling, not the norm. HHH is right. Flair going over a younger star is unrealistic at this point. He's jobbed so much over the years and doesn't have the body to make up for his noticeable aging. The fact that Flair's name is greatly overrated (when has he ever made money for the WWF/E?) is an influence as well. I'm not sure I can follow you on the Hogan point. You're saying that, since he refused to job for so many years, he retains the credibility to not job now? By that standard, the Rock lost quite a few tiems to people lower on the card than him, so should he come back, he can't be seen as credible.
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Post by chickenwhopper on Sept 9, 2007 9:33:01 GMT -5
I think what he's saying was Flair jobbed to Rico, among many others but to have him all the sudden go on a winning streak is kind of a stretch. Only way for him to really do this, is to take time off (already happening) and come back in "better" shape physically and mentally and have him go on a short winning streak from there. But by no means should he win the belt.
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Corporate H
Grimlock
He Buries Them Alive
Posts: 13,829
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Post by Corporate H on Sept 9, 2007 9:34:30 GMT -5
Didn't Flair disappear for awhile a month or two ago?
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Post by chickenwhopper on Sept 9, 2007 9:36:10 GMT -5
Can't remember, but I'm sure he promptly came with no build whatsoever and had no storyline to work with.
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Post by angryfan on Sept 9, 2007 9:37:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't say give him the belt, because at this point, he doesn't need it. He doesn't necessarily have to beat "top guys" left and right, either. If he works with a mid-card guy, all the announcer has to say is that he lost to Ric Flair, and many have been on that end of things over the years, putting over Flair's ability to know all the tricks. Having a cagey vet outfoxing the young guys has been done many times with people with far less name value.
If he works consistantly with young guys, they get to learn from him, and is somebody getting zero push going to be harmed by a loss to Flair when they'd just as soon be jobbed to someone else anyway?
Plus, as has been said, whomever beats him in his final match gets a major rub out of it.
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