When did they stop listening to the fans?

[Mozenrath]

dothebird said:

wilyjab said:

John Cena most definitely's got his heart in the rignt place by wanting to be a good example for others because of his high ethics and morals for the youth, teens and adults. Not everyone goes and does that. It's really fantastic that he is willing to do so. That is most admirable, well-deserving of respect and greatly appreciated.

He shouldn't turn heel or go along with those who want him behaving that sort of way. He is doing a fantastic job as a babyface! It is also attitude,reliability, good attitude, as well as a sense of fun/humor, work ethic which should and deserves to be rewarded.

WARRIORTHUGGGGG....COME OUT AND PLAYYYYYYYY

They didn't say he was huggable, though.

[Bub (BLM)]

Quite a while back. When they put the WWF Title on Chris Jericho, and then reversed the decision - that was not listening to the fans. When Rob Van Dam was the most over wrestler on the roster in the summer and fall of 2001, they jobbed him to Austin and down the card he went. When the fans were rallied behind Booker T going into WrestleMania 19, and they kept the title on Triple H. Etc., etc. They've been doing it consistantly for a long time.

[DeuceDominoMark]

Here is the enigma that is both us smarks and Vinny Mac:

-We're bitter because we're insulted that Vince no longer gives us a great product. We feel Vince is no longer thankful for all the money he made off of us during the glory days. We refuse to give him another dime until things change!

-Vince is bitter because he's insulted that we've turned on his product. He feels we're no longer thankful for the superior product that he gave us during the glory days. He refuses to change things until we re-open our wallets for him!

No one is stupid, we're all just equally stubborn. The Cena marks seem to be a little more easily amused than us smarks, but to each his own. As for me...
I do refuse to spend a dime on Vince's product until it changes. But I WILL still watch it, no matter how bad it gets, because I AM still thankful for the glory days. I feel I at least owe WWE the ratings they need to stay alive.

[wwerules60]

molson5 said:

It depends on what you mean by "fans". If you mean fans on this message board and ones like it, the answer is never (and with good reason).

If you mean the fans who are shelling out money, the answer is "always" - see Cena merchandise sales, and crowd reaction (either positive or negative, but never silent)

Someone can rant and rave about how great a wrestler is on the internet, but that doesn't make the WWE a penny (a lot of those people are the ones just stealing PPVs off the internet anyway). Fans making noise at an event will be listened to a little more - that makes great TV, and indicates a real passion, a passion that often translates to money. But actually showing love with your wallets - that's the #1 thing that will get the WWE's attention.

But I always wonder if that is really the WWE listening to the fans or the fans listening to WWE.

[jayjaystyles]

sexytime said:

Seems historically that the fans would dictate who got the pushes and the main event spots.

The most famous instance of "Vince vs The Fans" was the Lex Luger/Bret Hart situation of 1993/1994. Vince OH SO BADLY wanted Luger to be his next Hogan, but the fans rejected him in favor of Bret. When they both won the 1994 Royal Rumble, the fans were supposed to be 50/50 for both men, but in reality it was clear that the crowd was behind Hart going to Wrestlemania. Eventually, Vince gave up on Luger and gave the fans what they wanted.

He also did the same with Shawn Michaels and Chris Benoit, despite his better instincts to push hosses like Kevin Nash and HHH as champions.

The fans also dictated the pushes of Austin and The Rock. WWE was clueless on how to push both men . Even after his Austin 3:16 speech, Stone Cold languished around in Free-For-All squashes with Yokozuna until McMahon had no choice but to give him main event status. And The Rock was just thrown in The Nation as "Random Black Guy #5" until the fans caught onto his character and cheered him out the building. The same went for The New Age Outlaws, Hardy Boyz and several others.

Today, it seems like Vince is saying "You'll cheer who I want you to cheer dammit". The insistence on Cena remaining as a face champion, flying in the face of all logic as either booking him as a psycho heel who snaps under pressure, or having him chasing the title rather than holding it. The likes of Lashley and Orton in the main events, while clear favorites like Punk, Morrison, etc are relegated to ECW or midcards.

Anyone know why? Is it another egotistical effort by Vince to prove he can make stars? That he knows what the fans want better than we do? Seems coincidental that the era that they gave the fans everything they wanted became the most successful era in wrestling, and now that they are forcing the fans to digest what they hate, wreslting is in a huge slump.

It ain't rocket science.

actually Luger wouldve been champ if he didnt get all liquored up and run his mouth in a bar about being the winner at WM X

[smartcenadude]

sexytime said:

The fans also dictated the pushes of Austin and The Rock. WWE was clueless on how to push both men.

wow

[zombrad]

It's funny that the WWE is being held together by little kids who think they're part of the Chain Gang, and idiots who actually give money to Mcmahon (which leads to more crap, and useless fueds (and a useless midcard, tag division...etc..) just to chant "Cena sucks", or "TNA..TNA..etc..".

What's good for the business is if TNA (after somehow improving, and getting it's act together), or some other fed gets big enough to compete, so Vince and his writing staff can get off their lazy asses, and stop giving us Cena's, Batistas, Khali's, and a misused midcard.

Seriously......right now, with Cena and Batista as Raw and Smackdown's champions......I consider the ECW Heavyweight belt to have more credibility than said belts......despite it being held by Lashley, and Mcmahon >.>

The other belts seem to not matter anymore

[Big L]

explodinglimo said:

leemir said:

Punk is one who seems to be overcoming this with the fans deciding his push. Even if it's only on ECW.

I agree, albeit slightly. If the WWE was listening, Punk would be tearing up Raw or SD instead of ECW, though as a trade-off, he wouldn't be top dog on either brand.

agreed

[Cry Me a Wiggle]

The decline in listening to the fans coincided with the decline in writing, and no, it didn't happen in March 2001. The erosion began, roughly, in the autumn of 2000 when Stephanie became a member of the creative team. The Triple H/Steph/Angle love triangle was a hot storyline, and the way it was going dictated that Stephanie dump Hunter for Angle, turning Triple H into a mega-face in the process.

Triple H didn't want to go for it, so the feud was killed off before it had a chance to logically resolve itself. That was the first sign that something was terribly wrong, because all of 2000 before that point had been incredibly strong. Other things happened during this time, including Rikishi being the guy who ran over Austin, which then just so happened to tie back into Triple H.

WCW dying just insured that we'd be stuck with this creative regime for the rest of time.

[Big L]

thebigwiggle said:

The decline in listening to the fans coincided with the decline in writing, and no, it didn't happen in March 2001. The erosion began, roughly, in the autumn of 2000 when Stephanie became a member of the creative team. The Triple H/Steph/Angle love triangle was a hot storyline, and the way it was going dictated that Stephanie dump Hunter for Angle, turning Triple H into a mega-face in the process.

Triple H didn't want to go for it, so the feud was killed off before it had a chance to logically resolve itself. That was the first sign that something was terribly wrong, because all of 2000 before that point had been incredibly strong. Other things happened during this time, including Rikishi being the guy who ran over Austin, which then just so happened to tie back into Triple H.

WCW dying just insured that we'd be stuck with this creative regime for the rest of time.

wow

[VKMTV]

Bart: Hey, I know it wasn't great, but what right do you
have to complain?
CBG: As a loyal viewer, I feel they owe me.
Bart: What? They're giving you thousands of hours of
entertainment for free. What could they possibly owe
you? I mean, if anything, you owe them.
CBG: Worst episode ever.

[primetime110]

dothebird said:

sexytime said:

while clear favorites like Punk, Morrison, etc are relegated to ECW or midcards.

.

Huh? Punk is getting there. He gets good reactions, yes. He gets the odd great reaction in Philly, Chicago, etc. But he needs a couple more years before he's getting the huge reactions that his hardcore fans seem to hearing in their head every week. But realistically, he's not even close to the reactions Mick Foley was getting in 1999 as the number 3 face in the company.

And who the hell ever reacted to anything John Morrison/Johnny Nitro ever did? To compare him to anyone else on your list is insane.

Amen about Punk

[Loki]

zombrad said:

Seriously......right now, with Cena and Batista as Raw and Smackdown's champions......I consider the ECW Heavyweight belt to have more credibility than said belts......despite it being held by Lashley, and Mcmahon >.>

That's a respectable opinion, but the reactions to Cena and Batista clearly show that WWE have picked the right men for their A and B shows.

Punk is starting to get decent reactions, but nowhere near the level some are pretending.

In terms of pops: Lashley/McMahon > Punk/Morrison.

[Bub (BLM)]

loki said:

zombrad said:

Seriously......right now, with Cena and Batista as Raw and Smackdown's champions......I consider the ECW Heavyweight belt to have more credibility than said belts......despite it being held by Lashley, and Mcmahon >.>

Lashley got pops because they designed him that way. If they put Punk in a main-event fued with Vince McMahon, he'd get bigger pops than Lashley did.

[Loki]

Sure they designed Lashley (and many others) to get pops. But the "chosen ones" have to live to the expectations, and capture the crowd in some way.

How many people did WWE try to push but weren't able to get the crowd going like they were expected to?

I'm not saying Punk doesn't have "it", I just say let's wait and see IF the fans (all of them, not only the "knowledgeable" ones) wil accept Punk as their new hero

[Ace Diamond]

Somewhere in the time between burying Matt Hardy and pushing Matt Hardy.

Not a fully serious answer but still.

[AriadosMan]

Punk is the next guy who's push was dictated by audience responses.
Although, it was sped up by Morrison's "bad habits"

[I Graduated Warrior University]

mysterydriver said:

They listen to the fans when it values them.



With Cena, WWE has made something special. People come to shows to hate Cena while others come to love him. Cena IS an enigma. It is all about the mighty dollar, which makes sense because WWE is a business, and Cena has been crafted into a walking dollar bill.

The fans of Cena buy his merchandice while the haters usually declare their hatred and latch on to however WWE brings up to face him. Or maybe you didn't notice how much the hatred for Randy Orton has subsided with some people since he became the "chosen" one to win the belt. Sure people say he's "improved" but I think there is a deeper psychological reason for the current turnaround for some people.

That's just me, though.

I've never actually thought of it that way and you're right, People will buy tickets because they either love Cena or want to see him get seven shades kicked out of him. In regards to Orton, I've been an Orton mark since the RNN vignettes (man those were good). The problem is that he was given the strap when he wasn't ready to be in that spot. Fast forward three years and I'd have to say he's ready to wear the belt.

[Bobafett]

its ok saying he'll only listen to the fans in the arenas, the fans who buy the stuff, but has voince ever thought he can make MORE money by listening us the internet ones too?

qand guys like Matt Hardy, when someone gets the crowd reactions he gets, when someone has the workrate he gets its time to try him as a main eventer, c'mon Smackdown over the past while the best matches tend to be Matt Hardy vs A.N. Other

you saying just because I appreciate that and that I want him to be pushed to the moon that Vince shouldn't listen to me simply cos i'm an internet fan?

[wrestlecrapcrap]

theshow said:

Quite a while back. When they put the WWF Title on Chris Jericho, and then reversed the decision - that was not listening to the fans. When Rob Van Dam was the most over wrestler on the roster in the summer and fall of 2001, they jobbed him to Austin and down the card he went. When the fans were rallied behind Booker T going into WrestleMania 19, and they kept the title on Triple H. Etc., etc. They've been doing it consistantly for a long time.

Them reversing the Jericho title win was some of the single best heel booking I have ever seen. They knew exactly what they was doing there - and it was perfection. I farking hated HHH after that in my marky state, because I so wanted Jericho to be champ. Reversing the decision made HHH one of the best heels around at the time, and set him on the road to being one of the best heels - and by consequence stars - in wrestling history.