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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Sept 26, 2007 15:43:06 GMT -5
I and idiots who actually give money to Mcmahon Thank you for calling me an Idiot.
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Lick Ness Monster
Dennis Stamp
From the eerie, eerie depths of Lake Okabena
Posts: 4,874
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Post by Lick Ness Monster on Sept 26, 2007 16:25:56 GMT -5
He stopped listening in March 2001 when WCW died. Even if he dressed up Kevin Thorn as Turd Sandwich and made him champion, people would still watch. That is the single greatest post in WCF history. Sadly, I've also never read truer words summing up WWE over the past five years. Considering the utter crap we've been presented during this time - it's definitely not in danger of going anywhere anytime soon.
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Post by thepatriot on Sept 26, 2007 16:33:24 GMT -5
They listen to the fans when it values them. Shouldn't they be listening to what the fans want and react to ALL the time?
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Lick Ness Monster
Dennis Stamp
From the eerie, eerie depths of Lake Okabena
Posts: 4,874
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Post by Lick Ness Monster on Sept 26, 2007 16:34:18 GMT -5
They listen to the fans when it values them. Shouldn't they be listening to what the fans want and react to ALL the time? They SHOULD - but that's definitely not saying that they do. As RD himself once said, it's interesting to watch a company who so often makes it their official policy to give its customers what they DON'T want.
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Post by gmanquik on Sept 26, 2007 17:05:49 GMT -5
It's like this with all wrestling. I doubt fans were clammering for the Gagnes as the top stars in AWA. Sometimes, more than just cheers dictate pushes. Merchandise sales, reliability, work attitude, and more can be rewarded.[/quote] See: John Cena. Cena deserves every bit of that title reign he has, whether the fans like it or not. I like how Vince is pushing talent, especially Cena. However, all the good he does, is then easily negated by the talent he refuses to push, or the bad talent that he pushes (See: Batista) That's just how I see it.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Sept 26, 2007 19:37:24 GMT -5
Why on earth do people think the WWE "listening to its fans" would result in anything other than a trainwreck?
One of the biggest problems in wrestling booking, especially in today's WWE, is its short attention span. Sometimes it seems like two or three live crowds are all it takes for the writers to make up their minds if a new guy is useful or not. The Highlanders got buried after, what, two squash matches?
What the WWE needs are long-term, consistent storylines. One of the things about those is that sometimes you have to deal with guys you don't like very much yet. You can never have any storyline ever if all you're doing is reacting to who the crowds happen to like.
I mean, that's not to say the fans aren't important, or that a storyline shouldn't be altered or mercy-killed if it's really not working after being given a chance. And it's certainly not to say there's not a glass ceiling that hurts the quality of the shows. But I don't understand why people get all up in arms that the shows actually feature people who were chosen by the writers and bookers to be featured in storylines, and then they stick to it. You can't have good TV if you don't do that.
I mean, I hate Jessica, but I still watch Heroes. I put up with her because the writers have something in mind for her. I trust that it would be an unwatchable show if the writers just dropped stuff left and right, rewriting on the fly, because the fans don't like something that goes for a few episodes.
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Post by RedSmile on Sept 26, 2007 20:31:57 GMT -5
The thing is, Vince is such a flake and seems to overreact and panic at the first inconvenience. Yet, there are instances where plans are carried out no matter what. Its like he doesn't know what type of fan to listen to.
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Post by daltonimperial on Sept 26, 2007 21:37:57 GMT -5
They listen to the fans when it values them. Shouldn't they be listening to what the fans want and react to ALL the time? Definitely with carp on this one: Listening to the fans all the time would be disasterrific. Fans generally make quick decisions, either loving a guy after one match/promo or being completely uninterested after one poor match. On the other extreme, fans tend to freeze their image of the main eventers when they are in their prime, and believe that they should continue to dominate the title scene rather than younger stars, which would mean that there would be no new stars to take over when the older guys physically can't do it anymore. The WWE Braintrust is there to provide some consistency and long-term vision to the product. Plus, they know that people are sheep to some degree; if they get enough people thinking about a wrestler in a certain way, that idea has a chance to spread. Sure, WWE isn't perfect and may try to force their opinions despite fans' resistance when they shouldn't, but giving fans complete control would be like 52 consecutive weeks of Cyber Sunday. We as fans should be vocal in our opinions, but we shouldn't take it as a personal insult if "that loser" is pushed while "the greatest wrestler ever" toils in the midcard.
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Post by nerdinitupagain on Sept 26, 2007 21:52:25 GMT -5
I think that biggest thing that's missed in the listening to the fans argument is that people tend to not classify the fans correctly.
I say there are loyal fans (5+ years of dedicated watching) and new non-loyal fans (usually the younger crowd... 75% won't care in 2 years).
From my observations, WWE has become ever increasingly more concerned with trying differnt things to attack that new fan base than preserving the fanbase they have. Fresh fans usually spend more money initially than the loyal ones (kind like regulars at a diner.. if you're a regular, you'll probably go in for a cup of coffee. That's it. Non-regulars tend to get a full meal). 5 cups of coffee a week may add up to the same as one full meal. But say just twice I order food with my coffee. The regular surpasses the n00b.
Since WCW closed down, there's been multiple times where I just stop watching because there's nothing I care about. What brought me back? Usually the people that I cared about from WCW/ECW were finally getting a big push in WWE. (RVD,Eddie, Beniot)
I really wonder if Vince really thinks he can create an entire new fanbase for WWE and then just get rid of wrestling completely. And that's where TNA needs to be ready as the alternative... and same with ROH.. they need to cater towards that dedicated wrestling fan. Otherwise, that fan is just lost.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 26, 2007 22:05:30 GMT -5
The industry is currently at 32% of its peak, and is not headed towards a boom period.
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Post by nerdinitupagain on Sept 26, 2007 22:20:49 GMT -5
The industry is currently at 32% of its peak, and is not headed towards a boom period. Now that's a great stat.
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Post by Jock Ass on Sept 26, 2007 22:36:01 GMT -5
Wrestlemania 24 = ECW Title match: Kevin Thorne as Turd Sandwich vs. Stevie Richards as Giant Douche! BOOK IT! So this would mean the Giant Douche would win, right? After all it would be what the fans want because didn't the Douche win the election in a landslide? Yes, but your vote dollar counts! That's why you need to vote cheer for who is presented to you, even if it's the wrong candidate wrestler!
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Post by A Dubya (El Hombre Muerto) on Sept 26, 2007 22:55:49 GMT -5
They stopped listening to the SMART fans when they bought WCW and ECW They still listen to the little kids who buy the merchandise and the woman that scream for cena, until there is another competitor(no tna doesn't count) they will listen to only the people who buys the stuff dolls, the t shirts, the replica belts etc etc. ^Yeah, what he said.
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Post by jmac950 on Sept 26, 2007 23:45:21 GMT -5
TNA constantly listens to their fans (or they did when I used to watch a year ago). TNA would try and push wrestlers, then the fans would turn on them the next week. When you listen to the fans, they always change their bloody mind. As a result, nobody gets pushed, no stars really get established, or even look credible to a new fan tuning in for the first time.
Vince does listen to the fans. He listens to the fans that pay the bills. Cena makes money. Therefore, expect him as a face as long as the shirt, spinning belts, and whatever else they sell of him gets sold for money.
And this goes way beyond 2001. Vince has been doing his thing since the beginning of time. Just with the internet and IWC, it's more noticeable now then before.
Oh, Matt Hardy would make a terrible champion. He can't talk worth a shit, and I question how much he could sell.
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Post by Painz_Daughter:HD on Sept 27, 2007 0:39:50 GMT -5
When their heads aren't up their ass, and they step away from politicking for a second they listen to the $$$. The best way to be heard is to pay up and buy merch of our favorite wrestler. They listen to that.
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zombrad
Trap-Jaw
The WoodShed.....
Posts: 251
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Post by zombrad on Sept 27, 2007 2:47:45 GMT -5
I and idiots who actually give money to Mcmahon Thank you for calling me an Idiot. I wasn't calling WWE fans idiots, just TNA fans, or people that want better things than what WWE is doing, who give money just to chant something, and think that's gonna somehow get the Attitude Era back. It would send more of a message if people boycotted WWE. Maybe losing money would somehow make Vince Mcmahon and his writers put on a better show. But then again, lots of kids just love them some John Cena -_- Edit: Not that I'm calling TNA fans in general idiots either.....
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Post by DeuceDominoMark on Sept 27, 2007 2:53:49 GMT -5
John Cena most definitely's got his heart in the rignt place by wanting to be a good example for others because of his high ethics and morals for the youth, teens and adults. Not everyone goes and does that. It's really fantastic that he is willing to do so. That is most admirable, well-deserving of respect and greatly appreciated. He shouldn't turn heel or go along with those who want him behaving that sort of way. He is doing a fantastic job as a babyface! It is also attitude,reliability, good attitude, as well as a sense of fun/humor, work ethic which should and deserves to be rewarded. WARRIORTHUGGGGG....COME OUT AND PLAYYYYYYYY LoL! I can't be the only other person in this thread who saw that movie...
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Post by smartcenadude on Sept 27, 2007 2:55:46 GMT -5
Punk is one who seems to be overcoming this with the fans deciding his push. Even if it's only on ECW. I agree, albeit slightly. If the WWE was listening, Punk would be tearing up Raw or SD instead of ECW, though as a trade-off, he wouldn't be top dog on either brand. if punk was tearing up smackdown or raw the iwc wouldnt like him anymore and probably say the wwe is lame for pushing young talent over respected vets
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