Stephanie accidentally chokes Candice after RAW

[Deleted]

legion said:

To attack Beth is just silly, she wasn't to know Candice had broken anything if the ref wasnt letting telling her anything or even more so, if Candice wasn't telling the ref she was hurt or what have you.

Ya know, when someone falls like that, you've got to assume the worst. Doing anything less is extremely dangerous. What if Beth had done that and Candice had broken her neck? It might have been fatal.

You can't afford to take a risk like that--you always need to play it safe.

[Desi]

mightykretzler said:

legion said:

To attack Beth is just silly, she wasn't to know Candice had broken anything if the ref wasnt letting telling her anything or even more so, if Candice wasn't telling the ref she was hurt or what have you.

Ya know, when someone falls like that, you've got to assume the worst. Doing anything less is extremely dangerous. What if Beth had done that and Candice had broken her neck? It might have been fatal.

You can't afford to take a risk like that--you always need to play it safe.

I agree with this, but everything happened so quickly that it's hard to think straight, especially on LIVE television. Accidents happen, and I'm just glad that everyone involved came out OK, considering the worst that could've happened.

[Boku AKA Da Green Guy]

veladus said:

dagreenguy said:

Like others have mentioned... Nobody drinks while laying down flat on their back, otherwise you'd choke.

As for the Beth lines, I think you're just looking for an axe to grind. If anything, she should be praised for staying to kayfabe. It's the only thing she could have done.

1. Yep. That would be why I said it was stupid of her.

2. .... HAHAHAHAHA! That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Do you have ANY understanding of the risk she took to "stay in kayfabe" on a single RAW match that half the audience was in the kitchen or bathroom for? Candice landed right on her head. It took full impact. She was then unresponsive. This is a major thing, since Mick Foley has only been legitimately knocked out once in his career and the man's wrestled on bombs. Still, Beth drug her away from the ropes, taking a VERY serious risk of severing the spinal cord (which is extremely sensitive) with the pieces of jagged bone, either paralyzing Candice for life or flat out killing her.

I said it once, and I'll say it again. "The show must go on" is not for broken necks. If you think it is, you don't understand the severity of a broken neck.

Right, so she should have run to Candice's side and look worried?

Look, you overly assuming individual, I know what a neck injury is. I know how severe it is.

But I can bet, due to your own anti-"IWC" tenancies, if Beth did that you'd bash her as well.

Am I a big Beth fan? No. But like I said, the show MUST go on. They are in a business where it pays to hurt people (kayfabe). Now, granted, she shouldn't dragged Candice but my stance on the matter stays.

Also, I fail to see how Mick Foley ends up in this equation. Austin? Sure. Benoit? Alright. Lita? Definitely.

Funny how Beth, who had only seconds to react in front of the whole WWE populace, and yet you see her as someone who should have known better and almost was a murderer. Yet Steph, who did an equality (or even worse offense), in a attempt to look like someone helpful and to be a nice person almost does the same thing you accuse Beth of. Yet it wasn't Steph's fault, right?

Your side is so biased that I can't even laugh at it.

[Veladus Jobs To Dead Computers]

legion said:

To attack Beth is just silly, she wasn't to know Candice had broken anything if the ref wasnt letting telling her anything or even more so, if Candice wasn't telling the ref she was hurt or what have you.

I hope you don't work in an ER. "So what if you've got a gunshot wound to the chest? Can you PROVE it hit a vital organ? Go sit down."

setsunameioh said:

I agree with this, but everything happened so quickly that it's hard to think straight, especially on LIVE television. Accidents happen, and I'm just glad that everyone involved came out OK, considering the worst that could've happened.

I don't buy that at all. Not the tiniest bit. When I watched it for the first time with my family the first thing out of all our mouths was, right after "Oh my God!" was "She probably broke her neck!" and "I hope to God she doesn't move her!" Being in front of the camera doesn't automatically deduct 50 IQ. Also, she didn't react instantly. She had long enough to think about it before she did anything.

But I guarantee you, if Stephanie was the one in the ring, the IWC would be out gathering wood to burn her at the stake.

[Deleted]

dagreenguy said:

veladus said:

1. Yep. That would be why I said it was stupid of her.

2. .... HAHAHAHAHA! That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Do you have ANY understanding of the risk she took to "stay in kayfabe" on a single RAW match that half the audience was in the kitchen or bathroom for? Candice landed right on her head. It took full impact. She was then unresponsive. This is a major thing, since Mick Foley has only been legitimately knocked out once in his career and the man's wrestled on bombs. Still, Beth drug her away from the ropes, taking a VERY serious risk of severing the spinal cord (which is extremely sensitive) with the pieces of jagged bone, either paralyzing Candice for life or flat out killing her.

I said it once, and I'll say it again. "The show must go on" is not for broken necks. If you think it is, you don't understand the severity of a broken neck.

Right, so she should have run to Candice's side and look worried?

Look, you overly assuming individual, I know what a neck injury is. I know how severe it is.

But I can bet, due to your own anti-"IWC" tenancies, if Beth did that you'd bash her as well.

Am I a big Beth fan? No. But like I said, the show MUST go on. They are in a business where it pays to hurt people (kayfabe). Now, granted, she shouldn't dragged Candice but my stance on the matter stays.

Also, I fail to see how Mick Foley ends up in this equation. Austin? Sure. Benoit? Alright. Lita? Definitely.

Funny how Beth, who had only seconds to react in front of the whole WWE populace, gets only a few seconds to rect and yet you see her as someone who should have known better and almost was a murderer. Yet Steph, who did an equality (or even worse offense), in a attempt to look like someone helpful and to be a nice person almost does the same thing you accuse Beth of. Yet it wasn't Steph's fault, right?

Your side is so biased that I can't even laugh at it.

And as I remain neutral in my argument, let me point out that what Steph did was much worse than what Beth did. I am not saying Beth did the right thing (and I'd browbeat her for that if I were one if the trainers) but the point is, Steph did something that was completely conscious whereas Beth did something that was adrenaline and shock-stimulated. Could she have done better? Infinitely so, but Steph scores on a wider scale in the division of outright carelessness.

[Boku AKA Da Green Guy]

veladus said:

legion said:

To attack Beth is just silly, she wasn't to know Candice had broken anything if the ref wasnt letting telling her anything or even more so, if Candice wasn't telling the ref she was hurt or what have you.

I hope you don't work in an ER. "So what if you've got a gunshot wound to the chest? Can you PROVE it hit a vital organ? Go sit down."

setsunameioh said:

I agree with this, but everything happened so quickly that it's hard to think straight, especially on LIVE television. Accidents happen, and I'm just glad that everyone involved came out OK, considering the worst that could've happened.

I don't buy that at all. Not the tiniest bit. When I watched it for the first time with my family the first thing out of all our mouths was, right after "Oh my God!" was "She probably broke her neck!" and "I hope to God she doesn't move her!" Being in front of the camera doesn't automatically deduct 50 IQ. Also, she didn't react instantly. She had long enough to think about it before she did anything.

But I guarantee you, if Stephanie was the one in the ring, the IWC would be out gathering wood to burn her at the stake.

Less than thirty seconds is enough to act? Not even the EMTs that you are so proudly touting can figure out a bad fall's result on the body in less than thirty seconds.

[Veladus Jobs To Dead Computers]

dagreenguy said:

Right, so she should have run to Candice's side and look worried?

Look, you overly assuming individual, I know what a neck injury is. I know how severe it is.

No, clearly you don't. Unless you think having a kayfabe legitimate ending to a RAW match is worth risking someone's life.

But I can bet, due to your own anti-"IWC" tenancies, if Beth did that you'd bash her as well.

Yes, clearly I'm the only "overly assuming" person. Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.

Am I a big Beth fan? No. But like I said, the show MUST go on. They are in a business where it pays to hurt people (kayfabe). Now, granted, she shouldn't dragged Candice but my stance on the matter stays.

Also, I fail to see how Mick Foley ends up in this equation. Austin? Sure. Benoit? Alright. Lita? Definitely.

As I said, because a man that's known for having spent years wrestling the most brutal matches known to man has only been unconscious once. It means that the head has clearly taken a very dangerous blow if someone is out. I went to the ER for a possible neck injury after a blow to the head once, and you know what the first thing the doctor asked me was? "Did you lose consciousness at all?" "No." "Then you're probably fine but we'll do some tests to be sure."

Funny how Beth, who had only seconds to react in front of the whole WWE populace, gets only a few seconds to react and yet you see her as someone who should have known better and almost was a murderer. Yet Steph, who did an equality (or even worse offense), in a attempt to look like someone helpful and to be a nice person almost does the same thing you accuse Beth of. Yet it wasn't Steph's fault, right?

Your side is so biased that I can't even laugh at it.

That's a good point. Or at least, it would be if I ever said that. Care to quote any post where I said what Stephanie did wasn't her fault? Or that it was okay?

[Legion]

veladus said:

legion said:

To attack Beth is just silly, she wasn't to know Candice had broken anything if the ref wasnt letting telling her anything or even more so, if Candice wasn't telling the ref she was hurt or what have you.

I hope you don't work in an ER. "So what if you've got a gunshot wound to the chest? Can you PROVE it hit a vital organ? Go sit down.

If someone has gone to ER and is telling a doctor they are hurt they are still telling someone. My point was that Candice didn't tell anyone or give the ref. any signal, like she is surely supposed to when hurt?

[Veladus Jobs To Dead Computers]

legion said:

veladus said:

I hope you don't work in an ER. "So what if you've got a gunshot wound to the chest? Can you PROVE it hit a vital organ? Go sit down.

If someone has gone to ER and is telling a doctor they are hurt they are still telling someone. My point was that Candice didn't tell anyone or give the ref. any signal, like she is surely supposed to when hurt?

.... She was unconscious. What do you want her to do?

[Boku AKA Da Green Guy]

You place more blame on Beth, that in itself justifies my argument.

Also, you just proved my point about not even trained individuals knowing what a fall can cause.

And you know what? I don't think that someone should die for a kayfabe end. But you're making it seem like Beth lifted Candice into the air and hit a brainbuster.

Whatever, you know. If you think "the show must go on" and that "Beth should have more to blame" then, by all means, continue on. Because just like you claim about me, you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

[#Classic Hi-Definition X]

Guys, cool it with the sniping.

[Legion]

veladus said:

legion said:

If someone has gone to ER and is telling a doctor they are hurt they are still telling someone. My point was that Candice didn't tell anyone or give the ref. any signal, like she is surely supposed to when hurt?

.... She was unconscious. What do you want her to do?

Except that she wasn't, she was moving and clearly wasn't completely unconcious. However, even if she was knocked out, even for a few seconds, that should have been enough for the ref to see and to tell Beth otherwise how was Beth to know it wasnt just selling?

[Boku AKA Da Green Guy]

hitmandx said:

Guys, cool it with the sniping.

Already said my peace.

I'm done here.

[Veladus Jobs To Dead Computers]

dagreenguy said:

You place more blame on Beth, that in itself justifies my argument.

Also, you just proved my point about not even trained individuals knowing what a fall can cause.

And you know what? I don't think that someone should die for a kayfabe end. But you're making it seem like Beth lifted Candice into the air and hit a brainbuster.

Whatever, you know. If you think "the show must go on" and that "Beth should have more to blame" then, by all means, continue on. Because just like you claim about me, you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

1. You're confusing "knowing what they can cause with" with "exact diagnosis." Anyone with an IQ above a potted plant can see that fall COULD have broken her neck.

2. She probably couldn't have done more damage if she did. Nerves aren't hard to severe. If her neck was in fact broken, dragging her by the head would do pretty much as much damage as you could.

3. Still waiting for you to show me where I said Steph was blameless like you claimed I said.

[HRH The KING]

I'm sure she meant well.

[biafra]

dagreenguy said:

veladus said:

Yet Steph, who did an equality (or even worse offense), in a attempt to look like someone helpful and to be a nice person
.

Here is what gets me...

How exactly are you going to assume that she did this for any other reason other the genuine concern?

Was it a mistake? Sure..but people are judging her motives on their personal opinion of the woman; because there is no way in hell you or anyone else knows what was going through her head....

Again..if it's someone we like in this situation it would have been described as a well intentioned mistake...it's someone we don't so we throw out things like she was simply attempting to make herself look good.

[The Ichi]

Why are still arguing about this? Steph slipped up in a moment of dumbness, that's all there is to it. I honestly don't see why such a small thing is worthy of 8 threads?

[Deleted]

curryman said:

Why are still arguing about this? Steph slipped up in a moment of dumbness, that's all there is to it. I honestly don't see why such a small thing is worthy of 8 threads?

no clue im with you... Beth made a mistake... Stephanie made a mistake... cant we understand that without attacking eachother? Beth probably shouldnt have done what she did. It was dangerous but she also had little time to decide what to do. Stephanie, whether there to help or look good, accidentally did that to Candice... both of them messed up... why are we attacking eachother?

[Veladus Jobs To Dead Computers]

legion said:

veladus said:

.... She was unconscious. What do you want her to do?

Except that she wasn't, she was moving and clearly wasn't completely unconcious. However, even if she was knocked out, even for a few seconds, that should have been enough for the ref to see and to tell Beth otherwise how was Beth to know it wasnt just selling?

When was this? Several minutes later when the trainers were in the ring? And yes, that should have been enough.

Selling? Now that's what I call weak. JR and King knew instantly something was very wrong, you can hear the tone of their voices suddenly change to serious and concerned. The IWC obviously knew it, there was a huge thread about it almost right after it happened. I refuse to believe for a second that an experienced professional wrestler thinks that a bump where someone falls off the top rope and lands with what looks like all impact on the head isn't a serious situation. That's just not plausible. And if she did think that, she wouldn't go for the cover immediately. She'd probably do a few stomps or something.

For the proper reaction, see "Hart, Owen." He does not move Austin at all (Austin moved Austin, Hart did not). He starts clearly stalling and buying time while the referee checks into it. He even starts arguing with fans by ringside to buy time.

awataurne said:

curryman said:

Why are still arguing about this? Steph slipped up in a moment of dumbness, that's all there is to it. I honestly don't see why such a small thing is worthy of 8 threads?

no clue im with you... Beth made a mistake... Stephanie made a mistake... cant we understand that without attacking eachother? Beth probably shouldnt have done what she did. It was dangerous but she also had little time to decide what to do. Stephanie, whether there to help or look good, accidentally did that to Candice... both of them messed up... why are we attacking eachother?

I don't really see any personal insults. The worst I've seen a few people (admittedly myself included) say the other doesn't know what they're talking about. It's not really a big deal. The worst you could call it is a heated discussion or debate I suppose.

Anyway, I maintain that she had plenty of time to think about it. If it was in the middle of chain wrestling and they were doing roll throughs or something, I could understand it. But all you need is a couple seconds to process the severity of the situation. Some fans might not have immediately thought of it, but that's why we're fans and not wrestlers. A trained profressional should know better. A lot better. Comparing the reactions of casual fans to a trained professional like Phoenix is like comparing a candystriper to a doctor.