incident between Masters and Taker during house sh

[Edison taps to the ARMBAR!]

Ummmm . . . this does not prove that Taker actually injured the arm. Has anyone ever heard the phrase "life immitates art"? I would honestly say that it was probably just irony that he ended up messing up his elbow. He's not the most talented guy to ever get in a ring, probably took a bump on his side or something and landed on the elbow.

[Deleted]

buzzkill said:

am90 said:

I can see why 'Taker was upset (selling is something that NEEDS to be done to make a match believable), but there is no way he should've done that to Masters.

Be a damn professional.

Yeah, it was very unprofessional on 'Taker's part. But Vince and the WWE have shown in the past that if you're a big name in the company, you can pretty much get away with anything. And they don't come much bigger than 'Taker.

Agreed, although this isn't the way that business should be conducted.

I hope this changes soon, and it doesn't carry on into the next generation. In 2007, established wrestlers like Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Triple H etc., should be helping out younger talent. They should be teaching instead of kicking the crap into them or making them look stupid.

[The Ichi]

I like Taker, I dislike Masters, but I will admit it...Taker was a dick here.

[BHB]

godz said:

Hooray for Taker. Masters sucks, and he never got his receipt for smashing Stevie's nose in his debut.

QFT

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

am90 said:

buzzkill said:

Yeah, it was very unprofessional on 'Taker's part. But Vince and the WWE have shown in the past that if you're a big name in the company, you can pretty much get away with anything. And they don't come much bigger than 'Taker.

Agreed, although this isn't the way that business should be conducted.

I hope this changes soon, and it doesn't carry on into the next generation. In 2007, established wrestlers like Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Triple H etc., should be helping out younger talent. They should be teaching instead of kicking the crap into them or making them look stupid.

Call me an apologist if you will, but, Chris Masters doesn't need the Undertaker to make him look stupid.

[Just Jay]

I mean Masters shouldn't go out there and no-sell a veteran, but at the same time Taker shouldn't just beat Masters within an inch of is life.

I don't mind if the wrestlers a bit stiff and tough with him. Like a couple of hard punches or stiff chops. That's like a warning of some sort. I DO mind when the wrestler goes out of his way during the entire match to hurt someone because they screwed up or aren't selling, in this case The Undertaker.

["St. Louis Viper" Buck Summers]

I find this unlikely to be true. I mean... it's Taker, man.

[ellisdee]

Yes Masters should have sold the arm but Taker went way too far. Masters is very green and Taker should of cut him some slack.

[Deleted]

godz said:

am90 said:

Agreed, although this isn't the way that business should be conducted.

I hope this changes soon, and it doesn't carry on into the next generation. In 2007, established wrestlers like Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Triple H etc., should be helping out younger talent. They should be teaching instead of kicking the crap into them or making them look stupid.

Call me an apologist if you will, but, Chris Masters doesn't need the Undertaker to make him look stupid.

lollerz, but I was only using Masters as an example.

I was actually thinking of what Triple H did to Carlito and the whole tag division over on Raw. Buried five young talents within a matter of days. Why bother doing that? It doesn't make any sense.

[Spankymac is sick of the swiss]

am90 said:

godz said:

Call me an apologist if you will, but, Chris Masters doesn't need the Undertaker to make him look stupid.

lollerz, but I was only using Masters as an example.

I was actually thinking of what Triple H did to Carlito and the whole tag division over on Raw. Buried five young talents within a matter of days. Why bother doing that? It doesn't make any sense.

Buried five young talents within a matter of minutes, actually.

[Big Daddy]

sorry but I would be outside waiting with a baseball bat If you hurt me I'm going to hurt you back a lot worst.

[General Zod]

Sadly, I see this as indicative of a much larger issue.

The issue being, giving guys on the roster a spot when they clearly haven't practiced their craft well enough to deserve one.

This, in my opinion, is the leading cause of boring matches and "safe style" ringwork, which has been effectively killing the industry for some time.

Was Taker wrong to rough Masters up? Not at all. If anything, hopefully Masters learned an important lesson about taking his craft a bit more serious. If he's not willing to sell for the Undertaker, how exactly is that good for business when he sells for Hacksaw Duggan (insert any name), provided that he sells anything? How is that good for continuity? Are we to believe that Masters is tougher than the Undertaker, and if so, why can't Masters beat everyone on the roster?

It's perhaps the simplest and most rudimentary skill a wrestler is supposed to know. If Masters hasn't been booked as an unstoppable monster, not selling the pain makes no sense. And if Masters can't sell a move, what makes anyone think he has any grasp of ring psychology? And if he doesn't have a grasp on ring psychology, how does he expect to make the fans care about him, his matches, or his opponents?

And if he can't make the fans care about the product he's trying to sell, what makes anyone think he should even be on the roster? If the only thing he can do is work a "safe style" match, then he's not really a wrestler at all. Just a one-dimensional muscle-bound idiot collecting a paycheck and taking up space on a card that someone else could be filling instead.

If he's not willing to sell Taker's offense, he'll pound Masters until he does. Simple as pie.

I rest my case.

[The Ichi]

darthfaker said:

Sadly, I see this as indicative of a much larger issue.

The issue being, giving guys on the roster a spot when they clearly haven't practiced their craft well enough to deserve one.

This, in my opinion, is the leading cause of boring matches and "safe style" ringwork, which has been effectively killing the industry for some time.

Was Taker wrong to rough Masters up? Not at all. If anything, hopefully Masters learned an important lesson about taking his craft a bit more serious. If he's not willing to sell for the Undertaker, how exactly is that good for business when he sells for Hacksaw Duggan (insert any name), provided that he sells anything? How is that good for continuity? Are we to believe that Masters is tougher than the Undertaker, and if so, why can't Masters beat everyone on the roster?

It's perhaps the simplest and most rudimentary skill a wrestler is supposed to know. If Masters hasn't been booked as an unstoppable monster, not selling the pain makes no sense. And if Masters can't sell a move, what makes anyone think he has any grasp of ring psychology? And if he doesn't have a grasp on ring psychology, how does he expect to make the fans care about him, his matches, or his opponents?

And if he can't make the fans care about the product he's trying to sell, what makes anyone think he should even be on the roster? If the only thing he can do is work a "safe style" match, then he's not really a wrestler at all. Just a one-dimensional muscle-bound idiot collecting a paycheck and taking up space on a card that someone else could be filling instead.

If he's not willing to sell Taker's offense, he'll pound Masters until he does. Simple as pie.

I rest my case.

I think roughing the guy up to the point of breaking his nose and (possibly) smurfing his arm up isn't so much going to teach him a lesson and make him want to improve, but drive him away.

No doubt Masters was an idiot for not selling the arm, but come on.

[joeman]

darthfaker said:

Sadly, I see this as indicative of a much larger issue.

The issue being, giving guys on the roster a spot when they clearly haven't practiced their craft well enough to deserve one.

This, in my opinion, is the leading cause of boring matches and "safe style" ringwork, which has been effectively killing the industry for some time.

Was Taker wrong to rough Masters up? Not at all. If anything, hopefully Masters learned an important lesson about taking his craft a bit more serious. If he's not willing to sell for the Undertaker, how exactly is that good for business when he sells for Hacksaw Duggan (insert any name), provided that he sells anything? How is that good for continuity? Are we to believe that Masters is tougher than the Undertaker, and if so, why can't Masters beat everyone on the roster?

It's perhaps the simplest and most rudimentary skill a wrestler is supposed to know. If Masters hasn't been booked as an unstoppable monster, not selling the pain makes no sense. And if Masters can't sell a move, what makes anyone think he has any grasp of ring psychology? And if he doesn't have a grasp on ring psychology, how does he expect to make the fans care about him, his matches, or his opponents?

And if he can't make the fans care about the product he's trying to sell, what makes anyone think he should even be on the roster? If the only thing he can do is work a "safe style" match, then he's not really a wrestler at all. Just a one-dimensional muscle-bound idiot collecting a paycheck and taking up space on a card that someone else could be filling instead.

If he's not willing to sell Taker's offense, he'll pound Masters until he does. Simple as pie.

I rest my case.

So you believe Holly is justified for his actions with younger wrestlers?

[Deleted]

Is it that surprising that Masters didn't sell? Selling seems to be a lost art.

Honestly, I can't think of many wrestlers on today's roster that believably sell. It's something that needs to be brought back.

[Legion]

joeman said:

darthfaker said:

Sadly, I see this as indicative of a much larger issue.

The issue being, giving guys on the roster a spot when they clearly haven't practiced their craft well enough to deserve one.

This, in my opinion, is the leading cause of boring matches and "safe style" ringwork, which has been effectively killing the industry for some time.

Was Taker wrong to rough Masters up? Not at all. If anything, hopefully Masters learned an important lesson about taking his craft a bit more serious. If he's not willing to sell for the Undertaker, how exactly is that good for business when he sells for Hacksaw Duggan (insert any name), provided that he sells anything? How is that good for continuity? Are we to believe that Masters is tougher than the Undertaker, and if so, why can't Masters beat everyone on the roster?

It's perhaps the simplest and most rudimentary skill a wrestler is supposed to know. If Masters hasn't been booked as an unstoppable monster, not selling the pain makes no sense. And if Masters can't sell a move, what makes anyone think he has any grasp of ring psychology? And if he doesn't have a grasp on ring psychology, how does he expect to make the fans care about him, his matches, or his opponents?

And if he can't make the fans care about the product he's trying to sell, what makes anyone think he should even be on the roster? If the only thing he can do is work a "safe style" match, then he's not really a wrestler at all. Just a one-dimensional muscle-bound idiot collecting a paycheck and taking up space on a card that someone else could be filling instead.

If he's not willing to sell Taker's offense, he'll pound Masters until he does. Simple as pie.

I rest my case.

So you believe Holly is justified for his actions with younger wrestlers?

I do, i really do. Holly teaches them a valuable lesson. Either you take it, deal with it, learn from it and get over it.

Or you groan and winge and moan and realise wrestling, a hard physical sport with real dangers isnt for you

[Spankymac is sick of the swiss]

legion said:

joeman said:

So you believe Holly is justified for his actions with younger wrestlers?

I do, i really do. Holly teaches them a valuable lesson. Either you take it, deal with it, learn from it and get over it.

Or you groan and winge and moan and realise wrestling, a hard physical sport with real dangers isnt for you

Or you realize that you just got your ass handed to you by a bitter old jobber to the stars who's never accomplished shit in the business except a one day tag title reign and the ficticious title of "WWE Enforcer". I can't blame a guy for quitting after that.

[Deleted]

legion said:

joeman said:

So you believe Holly is justified for his actions with younger wrestlers?

I do, i really do. Holly teaches them a valuable lesson. Either you take it, deal with it, learn from it and get over it.

Or you groan and winge and moan and realise wrestling, a hard physical sport with real dangers isnt for you

It's about being a professional. The conduct of people such as Bob Holly and this incident with Undertaker is unacceptable, even if the younger wrestlers lack experience.

Also, professional wrestling isn't a sport. It's a choreographed and pre-determined television show.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

I've always felt Holly did a good thing by roughing up these young crybabies. He needs to give them a wakeup call before they get in there with someone who truly DOESN'T care and decides to take a SERIOUS liberty with them....something Holly knows first hand by being dropped on his head by that primadonna Brock Lesnar. If Hardcore didn't care, he wouldn't do anything.

Just my opinion of course.

[Spankymac is sick of the swiss]

godz said:

I've always felt Holly did a good thing by roughing up these young crybabies. He needs to give them a wakeup call before they get in there with someone who truly DOESN'T care and decides to take a SERIOUS liberty with them....something Holly knows first hand by being dropped on his head by that primadonna Brock Lesnar. If Hardcore didn't care, he wouldn't do anything.

Just my opinion of course.

You forget to mention, of course, that Holly only got dropped on his head by Lesnar because Holly was unprofessionally sandbagging him to teach him some kind of "lesson".