incident between Masters and Taker during house sh

[MGH]

PWI said the reported "roughing up" was totally not true AT ALL. So you have conflicting reports. Believe who you want.

[ellisdee]

godz said:

ellisdee said:

I can see this thread being locked rather soon.

Keep it civil guys.

As far as this is concerned Taker was in the wrong to go so over the top. But Holly and Brock is for another thread,another day.

It's seemed pretty civil to me....I've got nothing against anyone I'm arguing with, they have their opinion, I've got mine....so far I'm fine with everyone.

But to all those here who feels Taker was in the wrong, I'd love to hear the answer to two questions

1 - Why is it okay for Lesnar to break Holly's neck for what he percieved as a lack of selling, but what Taker did is wrong?

2 - If you were in Undertakers shoes, a respected, dominant veteran...and an unskilled newcomer was no-selling your offense and making you look weak in front of a large audience, what would you do?

Ok,cool,nice to see somebody who isn't a moron.

1 - Lesner i believe was acting in defence of Holly being a prick. Plus after watching the clip again i thing it was Holly that wasn't pulling himself up.

2 - Taker is a vet,yes. But he was once green and should have cut some slack on Masters. I'm sure there was a time when Taker made the same sort of mistakes.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

chuckymac314 said:

explodinglimo said:

What does Tough Enough have to do with this? Those kids were inadequetly trained, to be sure, but every single person mentioned in this thread though was *actually* trained. Masters went through UPW. Lesnar went through OVW. Cody had his father, OVW, and Al Snow.

Indeed. Not a soul has mentioned the Capotelli incident. You're the one bringing up TE, Godz.

Wrong. Several people have alluded to Holly/Matt, starting with Mcgarnicle on page 1.

[Spankymac is sick of the swiss]

joeman said:

So it is ok for Undertaker to beat up inexperienced wrestlers yet Holly is considered a felon for doing the same?

I see no Cappotelli, Mr. Godz. He could be talking about a number of incidents here.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

ellisdee said:

godz said:

It's seemed pretty civil to me....I've got nothing against anyone I'm arguing with, they have their opinion, I've got mine....so far I'm fine with everyone.

But to all those here who feels Taker was in the wrong, I'd love to hear the answer to two questions

1 - Why is it okay for Lesnar to break Holly's neck for what he percieved as a lack of selling, but what Taker did is wrong?

2 - If you were in Undertakers shoes, a respected, dominant veteran...and an unskilled newcomer was no-selling your offense and making you look weak in front of a large audience, what would you do?

Ok,cool,nice to see somebody who isn't a moron.

1 - Lesner i believe was acting in defence of Holly being a prick. Plus after watching the clip again i thing it was Holly that wasn't pulling himself up.

2 - Taker is a vet,yes. But he was once green and should have cut some slack on Masters. I'm sure there was a time when Taker made the same sort of mistakes.

Is refusing to sell an "injured" body part after Undertaker is forced to break character and yell at you to sell it not being a prick? (Again, assuming the report is even legit) To me, that WAS the slack. Masters still ignored it.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

chuckymac314 said:

joeman said:

So it is ok for Undertaker to beat up inexperienced wrestlers yet Holly is considered a felon for doing the same?

I see no Cappotelli, Mr. Godz.

.....how many other "inexperienced wrestlers" does Holly get bitched about for beating up, MR. SPANK?

[Mr. Mediocre]

godz said:

explodinglimo said:

What does Tough Enough have to do with this? Those kids were inadequetly trained, to be sure, but every single person mentioned in this thread though was *actually* trained.

Tough Enough has to do with it because....and this may be hard to follow, but....

I'm saying that I'm assuming Hardcore Holly was wanting to find out if these kids "wanted it" bad enough.

Spanky's saying they obviously did, or they wouldn't be there in the first place.

I'm saying I don't buy that, because I don't think most of them attempted to follow their "dreams" after being cut from TE. So they must not've wanted it that bad.

I realize that...and hell, I actually agree that the TE kids didn't really want it all that badly (with a few exceptions). And believe it or not, I believe it was right to be harder on those guys in the ring because they needed to learn a lot.

But Holly doesn't just stiff Tough Enough guys. He hazes rookies, regardless of their training. Like Brock Lesnar. And CM Punk. And Cody Rhodes.

["St. Louis Viper" Buck Summers]

Guys, guys. Wrestlecrap Kliq. Chill.

[Spankymac is sick of the swiss]

godz said:

chuckymac314 said:

I see no Cappotelli, Mr. Godz.

.....how many other "inexperienced wrestlers" does Holly get bitched about for beating up, MR. SPANK?

Brock, Punk, Cody, Dupree, Sylvan. Need I go on?

[joeman]

randomranter said:

I don't mean to sound like I'm coming to Undertaker's defense, because he did go too far.

However, this can't compare to why everybody hops all over Bob Holly or JBL.

Holly and JBL aren't "Locker Room Leaders". They're bullies. Holly doesn't beat up the new guys because they screwed up or something. He does it because he wants to be "Mr. Tough Guy". He does it because he believes that the new guys are "beneath him". He does it.......just because.

JBL does it simply because he's an ass. He knows he doesn't need the WWE, as he makes a significant amount of money in the stock market. He also knows that he's high up the totem pole, and is in that "protected" class of wrestlers that can do no wrong in Vince's eyes and has no realistic chance of being fired. So he picks on the little guys because he can, in essence saying to them "Yeah, I'm picking on you. What are you going to do about it? Go ahead and try......you'll be the one depushed and fired."

There's a difference between someone working stiff because the other guy isn't following directions or doing what they're supposed to be and working stiff to be a bully. Taker was trying to be the former and took it too far. Holly and JBL are in the latter category, and that's why everybody jumps all over them.

Holly was the damn coach in Tough Enough, so he had every right to each them old school. There are many newcomers Holly has faced and hasn't stiffed, such as CM Punk for example. Outside of the Matt incident, I want to know what other incidents Holly has stiffed on screen. Don't point out the Brock incident, as Godz has countered it.

Again, what Taker did is no different than what Holly did.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

chuckymac314 said:

godz said:

.....how many other "inexperienced wrestlers" does Holly get bitched about for beating up, MR. SPANK?

Brock, Punk, Cody, Dupree, Sylvan. Need I go on?

Actually, you might need to, because I have no idea of any Punk/Holly or Cody/Holly incidents ever occuring....whats the story there?

[joeman]

chuckymac314 said:

godz said:

.....how many other "inexperienced wrestlers" does Holly get bitched about for beating up, MR. SPANK?

Brock, Punk, Cody, Dupree, Sylvan. Need I go on?

When did Holly stiffed Punk? I know he beat him cleanly, if that is what you mean.

[Mr. Mediocre]

joeman said:

chuckymac314 said:

Brock, Punk, Cody, Dupree, Sylvan. Need I go on?

When did Holly stiffed Punk? I know he beat him cleanly, if that is what you mean.

I distinctly remember Holly (and Finlay, for that matter) stiffing the shit out of Punk during the Rumble.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

joeman said:

chuckymac314 said:

Brock, Punk, Cody, Dupree, Sylvan. Need I go on?

When did Holly stiffed Punk? I know he beat him cleanly, if that is what you mean.

And boy, did the tears flow here on that day. OMG PUNK'S IN THE DOGHOUSE HIS PUSH IS OVER I DONT BELIEVES IT!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr. Mediocre]

mygreatesthour said:

PWI said the reported "roughing up" was totally not true AT ALL. So you have conflicting reports. Believe who you want.

I'm willing to believe PWI's take over just about anyone else's. At this point, though, we've moved well past that aspect of the discussion.

[ellisdee]

godz said:

ellisdee said:

Ok,cool,nice to see somebody who isn't a moron.

1 - Lesner i believe was acting in defence of Holly being a prick. Plus after watching the clip again i thing it was Holly that wasn't pulling himself up.

2 - Taker is a vet,yes. But he was once green and should have cut some slack on Masters. I'm sure there was a time when Taker made the same sort of mistakes.

Is refusing to sell an "injured" body part after Undertaker is forced to break character and yell at you to sell it not being a prick? (Again, assuming the report is even legit) To me, that WAS the slack. Masters still ignored it.

Well in this case i think not. I get where you are coming from,but Holly is has been around a long time and should know better. Masters is very young and as boring as he is to me i still think in a situation like this he should be cut some slack.

[Spankymac is sick of the swiss]

godz said:

joeman said:

When did Holly stiffed Punk? I know he beat him cleanly, if that is what you mean.

And boy, did the tears flow here on that day. OMG PUNK'S IN THE DOGHOUSE HIS PUSH IS OVER I DONT BELIEVES IT!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, curse that internet hive mind. All disagreements are a thing of the past there.....WAIT A MINUTE!!!!

[PTBartman]

They Should-a sat-a down and discussed-a it over a coupl-a conolis and a can of a ass-whip

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

ptbartman said:

They Should-a sat-a down and discussed-a it over a coupl-a conolis and a can of a ass-whip

Oh go make-a the love to your stick-a, Santino. Grown ups are talking. ;D

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

chuckymac314 said:

godz said:

And boy, did the tears flow here on that day. OMG PUNK'S IN THE DOGHOUSE HIS PUSH IS OVER I DONT BELIEVES IT!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, curse that internet hive mind. All disagreements are a thing of the past there.....WAIT A MINUTE!!!!

I think Godz is talking about the general consensus of the majority, not necessarily implying that all smarks/IWCers think alike, which they do not. But it's impossible to deny that there are some wrestlers loved by those in the know about the industry's inner workings, and some that are not.