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Post by Mr Ismaeal Naji on Jul 27, 2009 14:15:45 GMT -5
because the nice guy is too "chickens**t" to have confidence in himself, and he just dwells on getting shot down and rejected, if she shoots you down get over it, and go on to the next girl
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Post by thesunbeast on Jul 27, 2009 15:26:02 GMT -5
I feel a long post coming up....
I have had similar problems, but i can tell you that I could probably put most arguments to rest. I am an extremely nice guy, but I don't fit the mold of what most people would consider a "nice guy". See, this is a cultural term. When some girl thinks "nice guy" they get pu**y confused with respectufull. Most women don't like a guy that's a pu**y, but the problem is, is that they seem to think that "nice" means both respectful and a pu**y, and they can't tell the difference at all. So when a typical girl sees a good, respctfull guy, they have this bigot intuition to think that he's a pu*ssy too. I guess it goes all the way back to classical times where women have always wanted a guy that could take care of them, and handle problems without hesitation, and that men have wanted a girl they could take care of, and I think that's where the knight in shining armor fits in with the princess. Women may want a knight and men may want a princess. The thing is, is that men can mistakenly think that a girl they can take care of is the right girl for him, and a girl can mistakenly think that a knight is the right guy for her.
Basically, most women want a guy that's somewhat tough. Problem is, is that alot of them don't know the difference between a**hole and tough, or the difference between nice guy and pu**y. Even other guys do this to each other, they see a nice guy and they mistakenly think that they can just say whatever they want to them and that the guy is going to take it. So if you lined up a respectfull guy who does all the right things and a disrespectfull guy who does all the wrong things, the girl will usually choose the disrespectful guy, get abused, recycle and repeat, and if she's lucky, find the respectful guy. The problem is, is that when you line the two up, the woman doesn't see respectful honest guy who treats you as a person vs a jerk who will abuse you. They see a respectful honest guy who treats you as a person but is a wimp and will get abused vs a disrespectful guy who will stand up for you. They don't see the way the two really are. It leads to somewhat hypocrisy, because the woman, after they choose the bad guy and gets abused and not before, will say they want a man who treats her with respect and not a sex object, will then go ahead and choose another guy who will abuse her in some way
I'll use myself as an example:
- I don't smoke - I don't drink - I don't do drugs - I'm not addicted to competition - I am a practicing Christian - I have had a ton of principals and morals my whole life - I treat women with respect - I don't brag about anything I can do - I don't even talk about women's looks - I donate to the poor and hand them cash on the street. "What if he's milking it?" people will say. "If he's milking it, then a well-off guy loses a dollar, if he's not, then a homeless guy gets food. Yes, that's such a tough choice to make" I usually say. If 50% of the time I get duped, then I lose a dollar half the time, the other half, a homeless person gets food. If everyone were WILLING to get duped 50% of the time then no one would be homeless, because of the other 50%, and then there would be no "duping".
Basically, I would be described as the ultimate "goody two-shoes". I go through the torture of bigotry that is associated with it every day. At first glance, most women assume that I have things I'm good at and things I'm bad at. They assume I'm nice and kind and honest, but they also assume, incorrectly, that I lack confidence and I'm a wimp and I'll get walked all over on when in contact with a prick. Salesmen always stop me in a crowd because I carry myself as a nice guy, and I have to put up and extra effort to just say no because of his misperception that I'll let myself get bullied.
Nothing can be further from the truth. I (and one of my other friends) am one of the toughest guys around, mabe in the world dare I say. I (and one of my friends) have made it through things in life that people only have nightmares about, and have kicked nightmares' asses (I just hope there aren't any more).
Just a few months ago for example, me and my friend were driving (I was driving), and a car speeding on a 35 MPH road was going about 150 atleast. It was the middle of the night, dead silent, we were having a quiet conversation, the road was dead of other cars, and out of nowhere, ZOOOOOM, a minivan goes flying right by us out of nowhere, running over people's lawns, their trees, and the car spins like a top and goes crashing into a tree that was tough enough to take it, and the car exploded into the tree, about 15 feet infront of us. Me and my friend didn't even panic, we didn't even flinch. It it weren't us two, there would have been screams and shouts and ruckus. At first instinct, in mid conversation, I slowed the car down a little while while it went flying infront of us, and we were both silent while it was going on. When the car got in front of us, I slowed down and came to a stop, no swerving or anything like that. When the car was in the tree, the glass came raining down along with many other 50 lb pieces of the car. We both calmly put our right forarms up, "just in case" it came through the windshield, as there was little else we could do. I had stopped in the right spot because all the parts of the car were around our car, and none of it in the car. Keep in mind that I had no insurance on the car at the time (it was my parent's car and they didn't have insurance) and I knew it, but didn't panic anyway. The car was in about 4 or 5 pieces, scattered about 50 ft apart from each other on the road.
everything came to a stop, in the middle of the night, with a shattered car all over the road, and a smoking remains if a car in a tree, with a severely damaged tree and another severely damaged telephone poll about 50 feet away (he hit that first causing him to spin). The guy driving the car surely had to have been dead, but we just didn't know how he died. the fron of the car was gone, the top was sunken in, there was no one getting out of the car, and the winshiled was in huige pointy spikes, and was caved inward. So I thought he died by having one of the spikes go through his head and body, my friend thought he died by being crushed. So we both calmly got out of the car and went over and looked inside, and, by the grace of God, he was alive and unharmed. Only his seat had any room. My friend called the cops and they handled it. Our non panicking helped the situation that was worse than a horror movie. We both were unafraid.
Yet, "for some odd reason", anyone who looks at the list above would have the completely wrong perception of me.
Like I said, I still have to 'take the bigotry" every day. For example, A few months ago my brother and his friend tried real hard to force me into a strip club in downtown Boston MA. I refused to go in. They both got really pissed off at me, and his friend couldn't believe it. He immediately "knew" "what was up", he asked me "are you too uncomfortable?". I wanted to punch him in the face. I didn't do it because It would be wrong overall, and I would have killed him. My record barbell curl is 185 lbs, and I've done seated triceps pushdowns with over 400 lbs, and I can squat over 225 lbs for over 25 reps, and I know how to thrown a punch and I use my whole body when I throw one, including my legs, plus, I was furious because I have little tolerance for that kind of ignorance, so he would probably have literally died right there on the street in Boston if I hit him, possibly with a broken neck.
My brother than walked away saying "I can't believe you're 25 and you're afraid to go into the strip bar". This was my little brother, I emphasize little brother, siding with his friend. I really wanted to hit my brother. But, for the same reasons such as it being wrong and possible death, I didn't do it. My brother later apologized for his actions.
But this goes to show just how widespread the detestful philosophy of "the higher the moral standard = the greater the pu**y" really is.
As far as why this philosophy is so widespread, Here's where I think the problem lies: There's a differnece between thinking and feeling. I don't believe for one second that women act on feeling and men act on thinking, I believe both use both. However, on the women's side of things, I believe that some women THINK that they're supposed to act on feeling because "that's how women are", and I say that this is just a cultural trait that women believe to be truly when genderly and mental it isn't. I don't want to get into the whole PMS debate for example, but I don't think it can justify murder like a court case once did. If that's true, then any man would be 100% justified in saying that no woman can ever be a boss at any job whatsoever because a boss can't make inconsistent decisions based off of how they feel, because sometimes you feel like a nut, and sometimes you don't. Ofcourse, I believe that a woman could be president of the US and any other job, and that's because a woman doesn't have to make decisions primarily off of how they feel at the time, no matter how bad. Just because a woman with PMS feels horrible at one moment, that doesn't justify making bad decisions based off of that feeling, and that goes for any other feeling. However, I think alot of women in our culture incorrectly think differently, and it has become a cultural trait for both men and women to make their decisions based off how how they feel. Problem is, is that men and women have different feelings, and so when both make decisions based off of how they feel, all hell breaks loose. No matter how different the feelings are between men and women, if no one made major decisions based completely off of how they felt alone, then there would be little problems between men and women in general. Men who make decisions based off of how they feel olone "think with their d*cks" one minute, then get guilty and lie about it the next minute. Women who make decisions based on feeling alone say they want a nice guy and complain about their jerk of a boyfriend one minute, and then choose a jerk for a boyfriend the next minute. There are alot of contradictory signals being sent.
A 40 year old man who is a virgin is not a guy who rides his bike to work and plays with toys and can't get a date. Heck, a 45 year old man who has never even kissed a girl in his whole life says nothing about what he's like as a person other than how he views women and dating. It can just as much be interpreted as extreme narcissism about not believing any woman on the planet is worthy of any affection from him whatsoever as much as it can be interpreted as fear of asking for a date. The guy could be an asexual marine lol.
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Post by King Boo on Jul 27, 2009 15:49:25 GMT -5
Why is it always the woman's fault? I'm not trying to enrage anyone or anything, but why is it always the female who's to blame? I mean, I can flip this around the other way too.
I like to think I'm a pretty smart gal with a good head on my shoulders. I have a sense of humor that can best be described as "male" and "corny." I have a solid moral compass, am not weak willed and have a healthy - though not too large - self-esteem. By that I mean that while I get down on myself at times like everyone does, generally, I like myself.
Do you know the kind of guys that usually find their way to me? The ones I like to describe as "a wolf in sheep's clothing." The ones who seem nice and respectful, but given the chance to get comfortable and show their true colors wind up showing themselves for the jerks that they are. I wind up getting angry because here I think I've met someone kind and all I really did was get duped.
Physical attraction is a decent sized part of why it all happens in the first place, but the key is to how one handles it when all is said and done. I have not stayed with one of the guys who tried to trick and hurt me even if I was insanely attracted to them physically. Not one. You know why that is? Because I mean it when I say I like nice guys and because I don't need to put up with all that stuff.
So I guess the question I, and other women like me, could ask is: why do guys always treat the nice women like dirt?
I hope you all see what I mean there. Just as some nice guys get hurt by the silly girl (because any female who stupidly chooses a disrespectful jerk over a kind man is a girl and not a woman, no matter her age) who can't see them for what and who they are, there are nice women getting hurt by guys also.
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Post by Janitor From Mars on Jul 27, 2009 15:56:36 GMT -5
And the worst part is, they know it, they know the system, they know how it works, and people like me, who have to wear the yellow star of being slow, who can't read body language have to suffer a life of loneliness. Think any girl at my high school would date the boy who took the short bus? Absolutely not. And it's precisely this attitude that explains why you are still single. No offense but don't beat yourself up so much.
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Post by Janitor From Mars on Jul 27, 2009 15:58:55 GMT -5
Why is it always the woman's fault? I'm not trying to enrage anyone or anything, but why is it always the female who's to blame? I mean, I can flip this around the other way too. It's not. It's just easier for some guys to blame the woman.
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Red Lion
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Post by Red Lion on Jul 27, 2009 16:02:20 GMT -5
I'm always the nice guy, and I'm very sure that guys like never get the girl is because they assume that we are gay, if that makes any sense, because god forbid no straight guy can ever be that nice. Quite a few girl mates of mine have indeed said this.
We should all follow the teachings of Sir David Mustaine:
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The QC Loser
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Post by The QC Loser on Jul 27, 2009 16:19:11 GMT -5
Why is it always the woman's fault? I'm not trying to enrage anyone or anything, but why is it always the female who's to blame? I mean, I can flip this around the other way too. It's not. It's just easier for some guys to blame the woman. Well I don't know about any of the other guys here but all of my dating exerience comes from women. I guess I could say stuff like asshole guys treat me bad but then it would be a lie. I can say for myself as someone who has never had a relationship end good I was not the one cheating, I was not the one that came crawling back a month or so later with the exact same sob story about how the guy turned out to be an asshole and hurt me. There are plenty of women that get hurt by the asshole guy, this just proves the point of the OP even more. A lot of my female friends use the he started out nice arguement which usually doesn't work as the time period he was "nice" was only about 2 dates or there were plenty of signs they just didn't want to see them till they were to late, I am more than guilty of this myself. I guess another question is why is it always the womans fault? Why is it always the mans fault? Look through this thread and 99% of the post are well it is the guys fault because he is not confident. Basically a woman would rather have the confident guy that is an asshole that she can "fix" than the non confident guy that she can you know actually be good to and would do the same. I know I would rather have a quiet shy not so confident girl than a loud mouth everyone wants me type.
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Post by Janitor From Mars on Jul 27, 2009 16:21:07 GMT -5
I'm just saying what I'm saying because some male crappers beat themselves up too much over this kind of stuff.
The "oh poor me" attitude NEVER works unless you want someone that has just as many issues as you (male or female).
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Post by thesunbeast on Jul 27, 2009 16:22:22 GMT -5
Why is it always the woman's fault? I'm not trying to enrage anyone or anything, but why is it always the female who's to blame? I mean, I can flip this around the other way too. I like to think I'm a pretty smart gal with a good head on my shoulders. I have a sense of humor that can best be described as "male" and "corny." I have a solid moral compass, am not weak willed and have a healthy - though not too large - self-esteem. By that I mean that while I get down on myself at times like everyone does, generally, I like myself. Do you know the kind of guys that usually find their way to me? The ones I like to describe as "a wolf in sheep's clothing." The ones who seem nice and respectful, but given the chance to get comfortable and show their true colors wind up showing themselves for the jerks that they are. I wind up getting angry because here I think I've met someone kind and all I really did was get duped. Physical attraction is a decent sized part of why it all happens in the first place, but the key is to how one handles it when all is said and done. I have not stayed with one of the guys who tried to trick and hurt me even if I was insanely attracted to them physically. Not one. You know why that is? Because I mean it when I say I like nice guys and because I don't need to put up with all that stuff. So I guess the question I, and other women like me, could ask is: why do guys always treat the nice women like dirt? I hope you all see what I mean there. Just as some nice guys get hurt by the silly girl (because any female who stupidly chooses a disrespectful jerk over a kind man is a girl and not a woman, no matter her age) who can't see them for what and who they are, there are nice women getting hurt by guys also. 100% true, kind of a reversed scenerio of the same point I was making. Only the question was about women. Why do men always treat the nice girl like crap? Well, I don't think it's all guys that do that, but the answer I've always found is this: the men who treat nice girls like crap treat ALL girls like crap, it's just that the nice girl actually recognizes the treatment as crap, where as some girls do a disservice to all women by not acknowledging it as crap. You know, the type of girl (not woman, as you've said) that likes getting called a b*tch and likes to have her ass described in detail in public. So the answer is that these types of guys treat all women as dirt. It's cool that you recognize all of this, I feel like hitting on you right here lol ;D HERE is a little bit of advice I can try to give you, but you don't have to take it. Jerks are afraid to show you their real self. The rule only applies to jerks that when you meet someone for the first time you aren't really meeting them, but you're just meeting their representative. The only reason why they put up a front is because they know their real self is not attractive. They learn all of the rules: The hold the door open, they act confident, ect.. they say "this" and say "that". There are ways to get around this. When on a date, don't trick the guy, but just for a few seconds act like you're the type of girl that a jerk will want. A nice guy will tell you straight up what he's all about. A guy who is looking for a one night stand's ultimate dream is to find a girl who wants the same thing so he can stop the act. So, If you don't want a guy that will use you for a one night stand, say something like "you know, I don't really believe in relationships, I just believe in a couple of one night stands". If he says anything remotely close to "well, I guess that's cool", then dump him right away. Don't even continue with the date because he'll just say that he knew you were trying to test him. If that's so, then why does he study women so much? Isn't he "genuine"? A nice guy would either roll his eyes at that comment or something like that, and he'd try to CONVINCE you that relationships are good. If he says something like "well, I'm not all ready for marraige or anything, but sooner or later you have to stay with someone right?" Then tell him he passed the test and continue on. If he's a guy who ;likes relationships but you want to know if he's a cheater, act like you don't mind cheaters and say it's "natural" or something stupid like that, and see what he says.
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Post by tap on Jul 27, 2009 16:23:16 GMT -5
Every girl is different. Every guy is different. In terms of finding the "one," the odds are against you, since, well, there are 6+ billion people on the planet. Roughly half are men, roughly half are women. Of that 3 billion or so, when you take away anyone 18 or under (let's say 20%), anyone 40 or older (let's say 60%), that leaves you with 20% of 3 billion people. 600,000,000. About double the size of the United States. So to say there is "just one person out there for me" doesn't make sense, since you'll never be able to be with 600 million women. That doesn't mean though that when someone does come along who you like, who you love, who makes you feel special, that it's any less important or true what you feel. So, keep trying. The field is bigger than you realize. Mathematically, statistically speaking.
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Post by The QC Loser on Jul 27, 2009 16:29:03 GMT -5
Every girl is different. Every guy is different. In terms of finding the "one," the odds are against you, since, well, there are 6+ billion people on the planet. Roughly half are men, roughly half are women. Of that 3 billion or so, when you take away anyone 18 or under (let's say 20%), anyone 40 or older (let's say 60%), that leaves you with 20% of 3 billion people. 600,000,000. About double the size of the United States. So to say there is "just one person out there for me" doesn't make sense, since you'll never be able to be with 600 million women. That doesn't mean though that when someone does come along who you like, who you love, who makes you feel special, that it's any less important or true what you feel. So, keep trying. The field is bigger than you realize. Mathematically, statistically speaking. Also subtract the ones that have already found their someone. Being 29 I have realized, at least around where I live, that most women that are my age and still single there is a very good reason they are if you catch my drift. There seems to be a very large number of single men vs single women. Of everyone I have ever met when asking about their friends or what ever just about all guys they know are single and every woman they know is taken. Hell I only know 1 single girl off the top of my head and that is because her and her boyfriend just broke up two days ago.
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Post by King Boo on Jul 27, 2009 16:40:23 GMT -5
It's not. It's just easier for some guys to blame the woman. Well I don't know about any of the other guys here but all of my dating exerience comes from women. I guess I could say stuff like asshole guys treat me bad but then it would be a lie. I can say for myself as someone who has never had a relationship end good I was not the one cheating, I was not the one that came crawling back a month or so later with the exact same sob story about how the guy turned out to be an asshole and hurt me. There are plenty of women that get hurt by the asshole guy, this just proves the point of the OP even more. A lot of my female friends use the he started out nice arguement which usually doesn't work as the time period he was "nice" was only about 2 dates or there were plenty of signs they just didn't want to see them till they were to late, I am more than guilty of this myself. I guess another question is why is it always the womans fault? Why is it always the mans fault? Look through this thread and 99% of the post are well it is the guys fault because he is not confident. Basically a woman would rather have the confident guy that is an asshole that she can "fix" than the non confident guy that she can you know actually be good to and would do the same. I know I would rather have a quiet shy not so confident girl than a loud mouth everyone wants me type. I'm not sure if I'm understanding you right, but I'm not blaming just the guys. I asked the question because of the barrage of answers that made blanket statements about what women think and generally have a vibe about them that blames women, as though men aren't capable of it also. I was making a point that there are women who a) genuinely like nice guys, so to say we all never do is kind of a lie and b) get hurt the same way. I realize this is a predominantly male place so topics like this are usually going to be presented from that angle, but more than one of us women (let alone some of you guys) have come in here and said that not all of us are like that and the very next post will be something like "because women see it as gay, because women have low self esteem, because women are bitchy like that." And honestly, all of that doesn't exactly sound like a very nice thing to say. 100% true, kind of a reversed scenerio of the same point I was making. Only the question was about women. Why do men always treat the nice girl like crap? Well, I don't think it's all guys that do that, but the answer I've always found is this: the men who treat nice girls like crap treat ALL girls like crap, it's just that the nice girl actually recognizes the treatment as crap, where as some girls do a disservice to all women by not acknowledging it as crap. You know, the type of girl (not woman, as you've said) that likes getting called a b*tch and likes to have her ass described in detail in public. So the answer is that these types of guys treat all women as dirt. It's cool that you recognize all of this, I feel like hitting on you right here lol ;D HERE is a little bit of advice I can try to give you, but you don't have to take it. Jerks are afraid to show you their real self. The rule only applies to jerks that when you meet someone for the first time you aren't really meeting them, but you're just meeting their representative. The only reason why they put up a front is because they know their real self is not attractive. They learn all of the rules: The hold the door open, they act confident, ect.. they say "this" and say "that". There are ways to get around this. When on a date, don't trick the guy, but just for a few seconds act like you're the type of girl that a jerk will want. A nice guy will tell you straight up what he's all about. A guy who is looking for a one night stand's ultimate dream is to find a girl who wants the same thing so he can stop the act. So, If you don't want a guy that will use you for a one night stand, say something like "you know, I don't really believe in relationships, I just believe in a couple of one night stands". If he says anything remotely close to "well, I guess that's cool", then dump him right away. Don't even continue with the date because he'll just say that he knew you were trying to test him. If that's so, then why does he study women so much? Isn't he "genuine"? A nice guy would either roll his eyes at that comment or something like that, and he'd try to CONVINCE you that relationships are good. If he says something like "well, I'm not all ready for marraige or anything, but sooner or later you have to stay with someone right?" Then tell him he passed the test and continue on. If he's a guy who ;likes relationships but you want to know if he's a cheater, act like you don't mind cheaters and say it's "natural" or something stupid like that, and see what he says. I've heard that before - throwing things out there as a litmus test. Not a horrible idea. I guess my point is, I'm not sitting there expounding on why all guys are jerks who treat the nice girls like crap because I know nice guys are out there, I just have to find the right one for me. Same goes for the other side of the coin. Instead of blaming women with generalizations, realize that it's just a matter of finding a woman who is right for you. We're not all evil demons or masochists who want to be treated like dirt.
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Post by Shy Guy on Jul 27, 2009 16:42:33 GMT -5
this is such a sterotype. because guys are assholes. Why is it always the woman's fault? I'm not trying to enrage anyone or anything, but why is it always the female who's to blame? I mean, I can flip this around the other way too. I like to think I'm a pretty smart gal with a good head on my shoulders. I have a sense of humor that can best be described as "male" and "corny." I have a solid moral compass, am not weak willed and have a healthy - though not too large - self-esteem. By that I mean that while I get down on myself at times like everyone does, generally, I like myself. Do you know the kind of guys that usually find their way to me? The ones I like to describe as "a wolf in sheep's clothing." The ones who seem nice and respectful, but given the chance to get comfortable and show their true colors wind up showing themselves for the jerks that they are. I wind up getting angry because here I think I've met someone kind and all I really did was get duped. Physical attraction is a decent sized part of why it all happens in the first place, but the key is to how one handles it when all is said and done. I have not stayed with one of the guys who tried to trick and hurt me even if I was insanely attracted to them physically. Not one. You know why that is? Because I mean it when I say I like nice guys and because I don't need to put up with all that stuff. So I guess the question I, and other women like me, could ask is: why do guys always treat the nice women like dirt? I hope you all see what I mean there. Just as some nice guys get hurt by the silly girl (because any female who stupidly chooses a disrespectful jerk over a kind man is a girl and not a woman, no matter her age) who can't see them for what and who they are, there are nice women getting hurt by guys also. and i agree with all of this.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 27, 2009 17:29:09 GMT -5
I said before that guys should shoulder a good chunk of the blame for treating girls as ideals and objects instead of human beings (i.e. the girl you like is never wrong, she's always perfect, anyone she's dating must be a jackass who's mistreating her, etc.).
But there's obviously blame that goes both ways. I could give you a litany of issues I've had while trying to date that have gone back to the girl I was seeing being too quiet about her feelings, or just betraying my trust completely, or not being open with me about what she was looking for, blah blah blah. And I've certainly seen my fair share of women enter into bad/abusive relationships, watched them walk out of it with tears in their eyes, and then watched in less and less shock as they go right back to the same exact thing within weeks.
But it's not like men don't do the same thing, in slightly different ways. How about the guys, of whom I've known a few, who are in relationships where they are effectively like servants, yet they just keep the thing going because they think the sex they're getting makes being treated like that worth it? Or, on the other side, the guy who goes out with a girl, decides to seriously date her, to go 100% the boyfriend/girlfriend route, but has every intention of cheating on her at every opportunity when given the chance? Some might write that guy off right away as a stereotypical "jerk" guy, but plenty of "normal" or "nice" guys have done that, as well.
I said it before: men and women share many more traits than we like to think we do. We're all shallow to some extent, and we like being with somebody physically attractive and cool (the "focus of the room", so to speak), it definitely cuts both ways.
I'll say this about what women do sometimes; I think society's done a ton of damage to womens' perceptions of a relationship, with conflicting messages out the wazoo, mixed signals about being an independent woman, but also being a doted upon princess.
That's not to say women are all conflicted, confused individuals, considering that'd be a pretty ridiculous stereotype. However, I do think you can argue there's a sort of social subconsciousness and societal pressures that women have to deal with that men don't. Boys aren't told growing up "You're one true love is out there!" very often, yet shows and books for young girls seem to be full of that stuff some times. Girls get older and are also bombarded with images of the demure female figure hiding behind the strong arms of her masculine hero, while then simultaneously being told about being independent women...who, whenever they're depicted in movies, are depicted as ice queens who don't get married or don't have families, as if that automatically makes their lives less fulfilled.
Men have to deal with various other issues (i.e. the constant media barrage of TV shows glorifying the idea that men are all stupid, clumsy, and lazy), but when it comes to interpersonal relationships, I don't think there are as many outward factors like that that we have to contend with.
I certainly have a tendency to blame a woman when my relationships go wrong, mainly because, in most of my experiences, I've been left high and dry after doing absolutely nothing wrong, and never being told or hinted to that something may be wrong or missing. Which isn't to say I couldn't go into some details about some good things that I completely dropped the ball on, but that simply hasn't been the majority of my negative experiences.
Just so, if I talk to any number of girls about this issue, they'll feel their negative experiences are mostly with men doing something bad or deceitful. It's perception.
On a side note, I can remember talking to a girl I went to college with, a very beautiful woman who was going into teaching, like I was. We had some nice IM convo's, and shortly during that time she and her boyfriend of a few years broke up, and after a little while, I asked her if she would like to meet up and hang out some time...to which she curtly cut off our conversation, and posted a Facebook status about "people who only talk to me now that I'm single"...because I guess it would've made sense to ask her out while she had a boyfriend. Oy vey. Just felt like sharing that.
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theryno665
Grimlock
wants a title underneath the stars
Kinda Homeless
Posts: 13,571
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Post by theryno665 on Jul 27, 2009 17:33:12 GMT -5
I guess my point is, I'm not sitting there expounding on why all guys are jerks who treat the nice girls like crap because I know nice guys are out there, I just have to find the right one for me. Same goes for the other side of the coin. Instead of blaming women with generalizations, realize that it's just a matter of finding a woman who is right for you. We're not all evil demons or masochists who want to be treated like dirt. I think I'm gonna need this engraved on a plaque and installed above my mirror or something. I really would like to believe this but when I hear all the time about girls wanting the nice guy but not giving me the time of day when I come around over and over again, it only gets harder.
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Post by King Boo on Jul 27, 2009 17:48:02 GMT -5
I guess my point is, I'm not sitting there expounding on why all guys are jerks who treat the nice girls like crap because I know nice guys are out there, I just have to find the right one for me. Same goes for the other side of the coin. Instead of blaming women with generalizations, realize that it's just a matter of finding a woman who is right for you. We're not all evil demons or masochists who want to be treated like dirt. I think I'm gonna need this engraved on a plaque and installed above my mirror or something. I really would like to believe this but when I hear all the time about girls wanting the nice guy but not giving me the time of day when I come around over and over again, it only gets harder. Maybe because you're choosing the wrong girls and not the right women. And don't sound like such a sad sack, that's not gonna help anything. Women like confidence. Not jerkiness, confidence. You can like yourself and not be an egotistical moron. ETA: Just to clairfy, I'm not trying to be cruel, I'm trying to simultaneously help the nice guys and defend women like me.
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Post by sunwukong on Jul 27, 2009 18:17:45 GMT -5
I guess my point is, I'm not sitting there expounding on why all guys are jerks who treat the nice girls like crap because I know nice guys are out there, I just have to find the right one for me. Same goes for the other side of the coin. Instead of blaming women with generalizations, realize that it's just a matter of finding a woman who is right for you. We're not all evil demons or masochists who want to be treated like dirt. I think I'm gonna need this engraved on a plaque and installed above my mirror or something. I really would like to believe this but when I hear all the time about girls wanting the nice guy but not giving me the time of day when I come around over and over again, it only gets harder. That's self-defeating. Stop listening to what people say and go out and experience life for yourself. You're never going to meet anyone by giving up because of nonsensical stereotypes perpetrated by lonely guys who are lashing out. I'm sorry if I've sounded rough in this thread, but the "I can't win..." and "blame the girls!" mentalities absolutely drive me up the wall. There are no "templates" in this world. All girls do not behave in one way or find one single thing attractive. Just because someone has a uterus does not mean they're going to screw the first person to kick mud on them. It's just childish bullcrap, and the first step to finding someone is to drop that nonsense and put yourself out there. Otherwise you ARE going to be alone.
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Post by Lair of the Shadow MaDaBa on Jul 27, 2009 18:25:39 GMT -5
The number-one reason I'm so defeatist is because...well, I kinda earned that attitude. When I was in high school, I asked girls out, I did. Probably the nicest response I ever got was laughter. I basically learned that me even approaching a woman is downright ridiculous. I remember one girl actually told me "You don't deserve me; you don't deserve anyone." That actually became a big...I'll use the word...meme. Every day for, like, the next 100 days, a girl I've never met would come up to me at lunch and just tell me that I didn't deserve to be loved.
That's how I was programmed--I don't deserve it. It's my problem, I have to live with it. I can't blame them for telling the truth and I don't.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 27, 2009 18:26:38 GMT -5
I think I'm gonna need this engraved on a plaque and installed above my mirror or something. I really would like to believe this but when I hear all the time about girls wanting the nice guy but not giving me the time of day when I come around over and over again, it only gets harder. That's self-defeating. Stop listening to what people say and go out and experience life for yourself. You're never going to meet anyone by giving up because of nonsensical stereotypes perpetrated by lonely guys who are lashing out. I'm sorry if I've sounded rough in this thread, but the "I can't win..." and "blame the girls!" mentalities absolutely drive me up the wall. There are no "templates" in this world. All girls do not behave in one way or find one single thing attractive. Just because someone has a uterus does not mean they're going to screw the first person to kick mud on them. It's just childish bullcrap, and the first step to finding someone is to drop that nonsense and put yourself out there. Otherwise you ARE going to be alone. You just basically took on the heart of the problem. It's a self defeating attitude most guys have that any failure is the equivalent of NEVER dating/hooking up with/associating with a lady. Very often, it's smarter to look at a failure and say "it's probably just as well, there's a good chance we just wouldn't have clicked anyway". Sometimes things don't work for a good reason, not because of some conspiracy. That said, it's simple reality, we all have a multitude of opposite sex stories that can reflect immature behavior and reflect negative stereotypes on both sides. Sadly, they do exist, plain and simple. But dwelling on them and not being able to write things off as "Eh, didn't work out with that girl/boy, there are others out there" is what leads to the self defeating attitude.
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Post by King Boo on Jul 27, 2009 18:39:58 GMT -5
The number-one reason I'm so defeatist is because...well, I kinda earned that attitude. When I was in high school, I asked girls out, I did. Probably the nicest response I ever got was laughter. I basically learned that me even approaching a woman is downright ridiculous. I remember one girl actually told me "You don't deserve me; you don't deserve anyone." That actually became a big...I'll use the word...meme. Every day for, like, the next 100 days, a girl I've never met would come up to me at lunch and just tell me that I didn't deserve to be loved. That's how I was programmed--I don't deserve it. It's my problem, I have to live with it. I can't blame them for telling the truth and I don't. The only thing less attractive than someone who would say something like that to you is the fact that you bought into it. Again, I'm not trying to be mean but it's true. This changes everything from a matter of "why don't girls like nice guys." It really does. ANY woman, with the exception being a woman who wants a doormat to stomp all over, is going to tell you they want a man with confidence. Once again, being nice and having confidence can exist hand in hand. This nonsense - and that's exactly what it is, nonsense - that having confidence makes you bad or being nice means being weak is enraging. The fact that you didn't get mad that someone would say that to you actually says more about you than it does any woman. Rejection is a part of life. The idea isn't to let it get you down because if you do, then you'll never get anything you want. You won't get the nice woman because your attitude was too defeatist to do so and that puts the blame squarely on you and no one else. I'm sure you're a nice fellow but you're not going to meet anyone nice with that kind of attitude because even the nicest woman wants to see that a guy has confidence in himself. Those girls aren't telling the truth unless you believe it and make it the truth.
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