|
|
Post by dynamicduo on Sept 13, 2009 1:07:36 GMT -5
Austin basically put his life on the line to get the company over.
The Rock dripped charisma and worked great in the ring.
|
|
|
|
Post by TRUTH TELLER on Sept 13, 2009 4:40:37 GMT -5
Cena's stuff is pretty much written word for word by writers. How do you know this? What if Cena was the one writing his own promos? It's been confirmed by a few different former creative team members in audio interviews that Brian Gerwirtz scripts all of Cena's promos verbatim. Cena is given some latitude to improvise, but the terribly unfunny lines are written specifically for him by Gerwirtz apparently. |
|
Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,949
|
Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Sept 13, 2009 4:47:12 GMT -5
If it all matters, I was never really a fan of Rock or Austin, nor Cena. Nope, I watched to see Angle, Jericho and especially Angle vs. Jericho vs. Benoit. Or any variation of those 3. Wasn't a Benoit fan per se, but he put on damn fine matches with those two.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bobby Womack on Sept 13, 2009 8:40:54 GMT -5
They did. His last face run before he went Hollywood, The Rock hate was absolutely ridiculous. It didn't make any sense at all, and was wayyyyy worse than the Cena hate. MUCH worse. When guys like Jericho, Angle, the Dudleyz and the Radicalz came to WWF, they influenced the wrestling style, and much of the online complaints I read aimed at Rock had to do with people thinking he couldn't "keep up". People also had issues with him winning handicap matches, I think. the dudleys? really? im one of the only critics around these parts of austins post injury ring work and rocks entire careers ring work and even i think the dudleys dont deserve to be mentioned in the same league as them ringwork wise and as for the topic at hand, they were just as hated, the rock more so, the only reason it seems differently now is because the majority of the iwc are quite recent fans and and werent on the internet at the time, thats not to say the criticisms were all correct though, this was the same iwc that criticised hogans promos every week during the nwo era despite the fact that he was getting himself over as one of the most hated heels of all time |
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Sept 13, 2009 9:13:23 GMT -5
But what if it is? *snip* So why is it suddenly impossible for Cena to be unable to write his own promos? What if he, himself, changed his character to appeal to a wider audience (whatever that means)? Read my post. It's common knowledge that Cena used to write his own promos while he was working his way up on SD. They were far more dynamic than what he's doing now. His current promos have NONE of the trappings of his old ones. Throughout history writers have always been noted for their styles and idiosyncracies, even when they try to change it up. Now, while it's possible that he suddenly stopped being talented, it's more likely that some hack took over the job for him. Why are you so averse to the idea of Cena's promos not being his own? What are you driving at? You know something that we don't? He is no mre averse to the idea that Cena isn't writng his own promo than you are averse to him being responsible for what is being written now. THe point is we don't know who is writing John's promo's. Since we don't we shouldn't be saying that one way or the other is fact. |
|
Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
|
Post by Celgress on Sept 13, 2009 10:26:34 GMT -5
Austin and Rock actually had talent... Exactly  |
|
Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
|
Post by Celgress on Sept 13, 2009 10:27:49 GMT -5
Another thing I personally never found Sting that interesting either, and Cena reminds me a lot of Sting.
|
|
segaz
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,381
|
Post by segaz on Sept 13, 2009 11:26:15 GMT -5
I've never seen that much hatred for Austin, aside from people getting annoyed at his "what?" schtick. Why did people hate The Rock? What was there to hate? Rock got booed in his match against Brock if I remember. And when he returned, didn't he ask the fans if they were on his side, and they booed him so loud he turned 'Hollywood'? I think he should have turned heel straight after WM18. |
|
Ragnal
Game Genie
Yanno what they say: All toasters toast El Dandy
Posts: 8,677,836
|
Post by Ragnal on Sept 13, 2009 11:54:53 GMT -5
I doubt there's much more to add to this, but it's because Austin and Rock were themselves turned up a notch. They also talked about their opponents as if they really hated them, and wanted to beat the ever living crap out of them.
Compare that to Cena. Back in 2003 what made him an interesting character was partly him being a heel, but also him freestyling and taking jabs at mainstream references. He was acting as controversial as one could be in the post-Attitude era. Then he turned face, still made freestyles but they were more gay jokes then the pop references we'd heard. Also, this was the beginning of his "overcome the odds" gimmick (Anyone remember him lasting five minutes each against Booker, RVD, and Rene, and then twenty seconds later he hits the FU on Rene after such a beating, among other things?)
It wasn't until 2005 that fans really turned on him. I remember I was confused with how immediate the WM21 match ended, but I shrugged it off. Then he actually had his match against mohammed Hassan, and things fell apart.
2006 was when he began his "I respect you" crap against his opponents: First with Trips at WM22, and then later on against RVD. It's a little annoying how a guy who wants to take your title from you can be so respected by that champion, that you respect them so much in return. It's like this one comic I read years ago that jokingly turned X from MegaMan X into a pacificst, it's the same deal.
Austin and Rock may have respected the opponent, but they still had enough guts to tell them respect means s*** in the ring. Cena just thinks respect's all you need, but given the guys he faces, respect apparently means jack.
|
|
|
|
Post by taylorandborland on Sept 13, 2009 11:57:14 GMT -5
Truth Teller pretty much ended this discussion, but I still wanted to say this: He is no mre averse to the idea that Cena isn't writng his own promo than you are averse to him being responsible for what is being written now. THe point is we don't know who is writing John's promo's. Since we don't we shouldn't be saying that one way or the other is fact. So at least for you, it boils down to "we should drop the whole thing and go eat ice cream, because we don't have solid proof either way". Just for the record, that is a horrible mindset to have. If every topic required hard proof people we wouldn't be doing much talking. Logic and evidence should suffice in these kinds of discussions. |
|
Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
|
Post by Hiroshi Hase on Sept 13, 2009 12:12:32 GMT -5
Why would he have any of his old SD stuff now? His persona is far removed from than what he was in 2003-04 as he's just a regular guy now essentially and in this PG era you're not going to hear any raps about making anyone his bitch or using lewd language. I didn't say that he'd use his old SD stuff. I said if he was writing his promos, he'd at least retain some of the qualities. He didn't need to curse his ass off and talk crazy s*** to be witty, and he sold a point without having to change tone every five seconds. Point is, we know that Cena's better than this. And I just don't think that he wouldn't know how to write better promos than he's doing out there, even if it is the PG era. Most of his stuff was of a raunchy nature, and would usually involve some innuendo that usually adults would get. We don't know if he's changed his promos over time to fit his persona that he has now, which is far removed from those days. I think he's doing just fine myself in having to sell a match or a feud, but to each their own. |
|
|
|
Post by Crazy Diamond on Sept 13, 2009 13:00:10 GMT -5
Why did people hate The Rock? What was there to hate? Rock got booed in his match against Brock if I remember. And when he returned, didn't he ask the fans if they were on his side, and they booed him so loud he turned 'Hollywood'? I think he should have turned heel straight after WM18. Rock got booed because the NY fans got butthurt over Rock being an actor. I don't recall any time where Rock got booed for doing a bad job as a wrestler after 1998. From what I've seen, people boo Cena because they don't think he can wrestle. I don't like or hate Cena, but I do not understand why they felt the need to neteur his character after he turned face. Hulk Hogan didn't act like Cena and neither did Bret Hart or Sting. They didn't suddenly become so weak like Cena comes off as at times. |
|
Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
When Toronto sports teams lose, Alison Brie is sad
Posts: 11,090
|
Post by Urethra Franklin on Sept 13, 2009 13:09:43 GMT -5
The simple fact is, the E turned Austin and Rock when they started to get stale. They didn't do that with Cena, for whatever reason. Back in 06 they pretty much just left the dude out to dry in front of pissed off crowds, going on with the shtick as if nothing was wrong. I mean, what kind of s*** is that? I think this is probably the simplest and best explanation there is. |
|
Tombi
Team Rocket
Posts: 995
|
Post by Tombi on Sept 13, 2009 13:32:40 GMT -5
I certainly think it runs deeper than that. Sure a vocal (somewhat deluded) minority still think that, but as I do think it's more about the character than anything else. Khali barely ever gets "You can't wrestle" chants anymore, for example. The simple fact is, the E turned Austin and Rock when they started to get stale. They didn't do that with Cena, for whatever reason. Back in 06 they pretty much just left the dude out to dry in front of pissed off crowds, going on with the shtick as if nothing was wrong. I mean, what kind of s*** is that? I think this is probably the simplest and best explanation there is. I never got the idea that Cena had a "stale" gimmick in 2006. At the time he only had the same gimmick for what, a year? Before that he was this innuendo-spewing rapper. Besides, if it wasn't for that we would have never got his awesome match with RVD. I really don't think WWE believe Cena's half and half reception is a bad thing. It gets everyone in the arena on their feet and making noise, adds a whole new element to his matches that can actually cause normally dead and disinterested crowds to 'get into' a match and, here's the main thing; the crowd have fun. I think they should start worrying if the vocal Cena detractors quieten down and his reception turns into that of a bog standard babyface reaction like those of a Diesel. For as much crap as the company gets for him; that and only that will be when he loses star power as far as I'm concerned. This is one of the main reasons I look forward to one day seeing him turn heel though - the idea that all of his haters will start randomly cheering him and instead of a high pitch shriek upon hearing the opening riff of his entrance; you'll instead hear a burly and butch man cheer. Just think of Blackman's reaction at the Raw 15th Anniversary except amplified. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2009 13:33:26 GMT -5
As a kid I hated Austin the same way a lot of people hate Cena now.
|
|
|
|
Post by taylorandborland on Sept 13, 2009 13:47:03 GMT -5
I really don't think WWE believe Cena's half and half reception is a bad thing. It gets everyone in the arena on their feet and making noise, adds a whole new element to his matches that can actually cause normally dead and disinterested crowds to 'get into' a match and, here's the main thing; the crowd have fun. I think they should start worrying if the vocal Cena detractors quieten down and his reception turns into that of a bog standard babyface reaction like those of a Diesel. For as much crap as the company gets for him; that and only that will be when he loses star power as far as I'm concerned. Interesting thought. But the E shouldn't take that kind of chance the face of the company. If it was happening to somebody like HHH or Batista it'd be alright, because compared to Cena they're pretty expendable. To jerk your top star around like that is just kinda bad business. bad choice of words bad choice of words bad choice of words |
|
doca
Tommy Wiseau
Posts: 75
|
Post by doca on Sept 13, 2009 14:06:10 GMT -5
1. Cena was never the fans choice unlike Austin or Rock WWE just pushed him regardless because they saw a lot in him.
2. He is less charasmatic than either guy despite his passion.
3. His promos are filled with awful hype BS, he sounds like a damn spokesman not a wrestler with a character.
Those are the big 3 in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Sept 13, 2009 17:33:18 GMT -5
Ok the funny thing is almost EVERY reason someone has posted for why the Cena hate, is a reason people used to use to justify their Austin/Rock hate. So really to me who was around back then the only thing that's changed much is the names of the guys. That and the fact their is less to fall back on to tide you over while the wrestler you loathe is on top.
|
|
Tombi
Team Rocket
Posts: 995
|
Post by Tombi on Sept 13, 2009 17:46:22 GMT -5
Ok the funny thing is almost EVERY reason someone has posted for why the Cena hate, is a reason people used to use to justify their Austin/Rock hate. So really to me who was around back then the only thing that's changed much is the names of the guys. That and the fact their is less to fall back on to tide you over while the wrestler you loathe is on top. Pretty much. I wasn't on the internet a lot back then but from what I have seen it certainly seems to match up. Stuff like the "we didn't choose him, WWE chose him!" stuff can be pretty much applied to Rock perfectly if you're so inclined. It's just a matter of twisting the facts to suit your opinion. I could probably give them Austin, at least for beginning of his run; but by late 1999 or so I know for a fact a lot of people found it ridiculous. I really don't think WWE believe Cena's half and half reception is a bad thing. It gets everyone in the arena on their feet and making noise, adds a whole new element to his matches that can actually cause normally dead and disinterested crowds to 'get into' a match and, here's the main thing; the crowd have fun. I think they should start worrying if the vocal Cena detractors quieten down and his reception turns into that of a bog standard babyface reaction like those of a Diesel. For as much crap as the company gets for him; that and only that will be when he loses star power as far as I'm concerned. Interesting thought. But the E shouldn't take that kind of chance the face of the company. Yeah I somewhat agree. I mean, it hasn't happened now so it looks safe, but if was to just suddenly happen and they hadn't placed any seeds for a heel turn they'd be pretty much screwed. I'd just like to add I really like the "YEEEAAH! BOO! YEEEAAH! BOO!" chants that seem to be a mainstay in his matches now. You didn't really see that a whole lot before and it's rather fun, if just for the ability to get everyone in the audience involved regardless of opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by crazydom on Sept 13, 2009 18:15:27 GMT -5
People hate Cena because he has no character to speak of. He's just John Cena, the guy who makes stupid jokes and screams in a loud voice. There was zero hate for John Cena when he was a rapper. Why? Because like Rock and Austin, that felt like a taken to the extreme version of Cena's real personality. It differentiated Cena from the rest of the roster.
Now, Cena's just a generic face who constantly compliments heels and randomly screams certain parts of his sentences. It isn't surprising that this isn't appealing to a large part of the fanbase that grew up with Rock and Austin. If anything, Cena is the anti Rock and Austin as he is now.
|
|
