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Post by mrfujiwara on May 2, 2009 10:02:18 GMT -5
its easy to have great music when you can steal hit songs and use them without fear of being sued because nobodys heard of you Yeah but you still have to have good taste on what to use, and where/how to use it.
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Post by mrfujiwara on May 2, 2009 10:03:32 GMT -5
It was awesome because it was different and it was the first big indy promotion stateside that ended up getting national attention. At the same time however, it was overrated for what they were doing in their time compared to WWF & WCW. ECW was awesomely overrated. Global and UWF(Herbie) were National years and years before ECW.
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Post by BrodietheSlayer on May 2, 2009 18:28:46 GMT -5
Awesome.
It was the Punk Rock movement of wrestling. Nuff Said.
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Post by Stu on May 2, 2009 19:32:44 GMT -5
If you've never seen it until now, you may not like it. It was totally different a decade ago, hence its notoriety. But these days, we're desensitized to that kind of wrestling. It was more of a rareity a decade ago and caught a lot of attention for being unique.
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Post by Larryhausen on May 2, 2009 23:16:32 GMT -5
I don't know, I guess I'm extremely biased(no pun intended...really).
But you really had to be at the Arena shows, and the New York shows to really appreciate it.
A lot of people complain at the fans trying to "get themselves over" with the chants and whatnot, but all I casn say is you really got caught up in it all. It really was just an amzing place to be if you were a wrestling fan. From the chants, to waving a foam head around, to having guys basically wrestle on top of you, to having the Sandman spit beer all over you, to being so close you felt a gust of air from a swinging chair, and wanting ti kill the guys in the ring for being assholes even though you know it's "fake", right down to being so damn close to amazing wrestling matches, that it really is tough to remember the stuff you didn;t care for. You really were overwhelmed by the experience.
Before ECW, I watched wrestling. After ECW, I was a wrestling fan.
But that's just me.
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Post by Robbymac on May 2, 2009 23:25:53 GMT -5
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Post by Chuckie Finster on May 3, 2009 0:00:49 GMT -5
Awesome. It was the Punk Rock movement of wrestling. Nuff Said. I think of it more as the grunge movement of wrestling. Not only was it around the same time, but it did change the industry during and after it ended, plus many people feel it wasn't around long enough.In fact, Heyman called ECW "wrestling's version of Nirvana". Another thing about ECW that made it great to me. WWE and WCW always felt like it was the corporate people's company. Despite how good they were, it always felt like it was at the whim of those with deep pockets and the fans just acted like puppets. ECW however, felt like OUR promotion. It was the fans promotion because the fans made their voices heard and made stars. WWE and WCW always pushed whoever they wanted. ECW pushed who the fans wanted. No other promotion did this and for that, we pledged our loyalty to ECW and became a part of it, even if some of us couldn't go to a single show. It might sound weird, but that's what we felt like during that time.
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Post by britishbulldog on May 3, 2009 10:06:23 GMT -5
Raven/Dreamer. Best built fued ever. this alone made it great. But I agree that therewas a lot of crap too.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on May 3, 2009 10:24:50 GMT -5
As a hardcore fan of the original ECW, I 100% agree. ECW was awesome for what it was, that being an alternative to the WWF and WCW, and a great place to see wrestlers show exactly what they had in them with no restrictions. I just don't like it when some fans of the original ECW make it out to be the be-all-end-all of wrestling promotions, and act as if it was the holy land. I watched ECW from 1997 until it folded in 2001, and for everything that was great about it, there were still many things that were crap, as with any wrestling company.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,489
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Post by Ben Wyatt on May 3, 2009 10:36:39 GMT -5
This is where I sit on the topic
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Post by JerryvonKramer on May 3, 2009 10:51:49 GMT -5
Law of diminishing returns with ECW tbh.
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Post by Ryushinku on May 3, 2009 12:47:03 GMT -5
'95 and '96 though, they arguably had the strongest product of the 'big three' (especially '95).
Outside of that, ECW hasn't aged so well these days. Mind you neither has the Attitude stuff in a lot of cases.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on May 3, 2009 17:40:54 GMT -5
Because so much stuff has happened since then, it' so hard to compare and say it didn't age well. ECW did things that almost every promotion is doing now and that no american promotion were doing then.
For instance, in the WWF, the biggest high risk move at the time was when Shawn Michaels came off the ladder against Razor Ramon. WCW had Pillman coming off the top with a flying body press.
One of the first ECW matches I saw on Hardcore TV was a 4 way elimination match for the TV title between Chris Jericho, Pitbull 2, Shane Douglas and 2 Cold Scorpio. I've seen scorpio before in WCW, but I never saw anyone do the Tumbleweed at that point. EVER. a freakin' Somersault corkscrew leg drop. I've never seen anything like a lionsault. And i've never seen a Lionsault countered by a dropkick with the quickness that they did it with. And all WWF or WCW had to offer were flying body presses?
Because of that match, I was sold on ECW.
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Post by Bubble Lead on May 3, 2009 19:31:25 GMT -5
ECW was one of those "you had to be there" things. Years after the fact it may not seem like a big deal; back then it was revolutionary, and produced some of the most memorable story lines and matches ever.
Also, PLEASE do not compare WWE Attitude to ECW. ECWs angles were a lot more logical and thought out than the Attitude Era. There wasn't swerve after swerve to the point where it made no sense, the match quality was GREAT, and the garbage wrestling was intense, not mostly comedic.
Then you have the people who will point to someone like New Jack and say ECW sucked...well New Jack was over and made them a lot of money. He never wore the ECW Title and was never the focus of the company. He was a special attraction like Khali [who DID hold a top title...hmmm]. Then you look at the garbage wrestlers during ECWs peak...again, that was their gimmick and wrestling style. Just like in WWE, you have your brawlers, your high fliers, and whatnot. Hardcore is another style and not every ECW guy used a million chairshots and weird weapons every single match.
That said, obviously if you dont like hardcore wrestling you wont like a lot of ECW, in the same way that if you dont care for safe style you probably arent going to enjoy a good deal of WWE.
However ECW was a great fed, evidenced by how it is still remembered today. Obviously Vince McMahon thought there was a lot of worth in the ECW name since he co-opted it for his own benefit. Think about that the next time you think ECW was just some crappy indie fed that nobody cared about...yeah, thats why the Rise and Fall of ECW was one of WWEs top selling DVDs ever.
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Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
Posts: 18,224
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Post by Dave at the Movies on May 3, 2009 19:48:44 GMT -5
It is overrated if you nit pick enough but overall it was one of the best overall wrestling promotions ever.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on May 3, 2009 20:15:00 GMT -5
I'd love to point out that they'd have fallen no matter what. The bankrupcy hearing was a litany of debtors and made it apparent that they'd never have survived
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on May 3, 2009 21:13:06 GMT -5
Because so much stuff has happened since then, it' so hard to compare and say it didn't age well. ECW did things that almost every promotion is doing now and that no american promotion were doing then. For instance, in the WWF, the biggest high risk move at the time was when Shawn Michaels came off the ladder against Razor Ramon. WCW had Pillman coming off the top with a flying body press. One of the first ECW matches I saw on Hardcore TV was a 4 way elimination match for the TV title between Chris Jericho, Pitbull 2, Shane Douglas and 2 Cold Scorpio. I've seen scorpio before in WCW, but I never saw anyone do the Tumbleweed at that point. EVER. a freakin' Somersault corkscrew leg drop. I've never seen anything like a lionsault. And i've never seen a Lionsault countered by a dropkick with the quickness that they did it with. And all WWF or WCW had to offer were flying body presses? Because of that match, I was sold on ECW. you know Scorpio was in WCW before ECW? He was doing stuff like his 450 off the top there. And even a catapult version off the apron. WCW was certainly doing more than just a flying bodypress with more than just Scorpio. With the Hollywood Blondes Pillman and Austin often used a double splash off the top as their finisher. When Rick Steiner was there he did a flying Bulldog. You know, the move that eventually broke Bagwell's neck. When Mr. Wonderful had to retire they had Ric Flair and Arn Anderson deliver a spiked piledriver on concrete. And of course there were those years with Cactus Jack on the roster. I don't really remember enough of WWF to know about their high impact moves. I still mostly saw their squash matches at the time. But I know Owen was a high flyer, Bret Hart did a variation of a Vader Bomb to a standing opponent on the outside and Bam Bam Bigelow was one of the most agile big men ever.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on May 3, 2009 21:16:53 GMT -5
Then you have the people who will point to someone like New Jack and say ECW sucked...well New Jack was over and made them a lot of money. He never wore the ECW Title and was never the focus of the company. He was a special attraction like Khali [who DID hold a top title...hmmm]. Then you look at the garbage wrestlers during ECWs peak...again, that was their gimmick and wrestling style. Just like in WWE, you have your brawlers, your high fliers, and whatnot. Hardcore is another style and not every ECW guy used a million chairshots and weird weapons every single match. But you have to admit the garbage wrestlers were ECWs backbone. After all the technical masters and then the luchadores moved on leaving the garbage wrestlers. Instead of dumping three or four of them to try to keep one of the luchadores or scientific guys longer.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on May 3, 2009 21:52:37 GMT -5
Because so much stuff has happened since then, it' so hard to compare and say it didn't age well. ECW did things that almost every promotion is doing now and that no american promotion were doing then. For instance, in the WWF, the biggest high risk move at the time was when Shawn Michaels came off the ladder against Razor Ramon. WCW had Pillman coming off the top with a flying body press. One of the first ECW matches I saw on Hardcore TV was a 4 way elimination match for the TV title between Chris Jericho, Pitbull 2, Shane Douglas and 2 Cold Scorpio. I've seen scorpio before in WCW, but I never saw anyone do the Tumbleweed at that point. EVER. a freakin' Somersault corkscrew leg drop. I've never seen anything like a lionsault. And i've never seen a Lionsault countered by a dropkick with the quickness that they did it with. And all WWF or WCW had to offer were flying body presses? Because of that match, I was sold on ECW. you know Scorpio was in WCW before ECW? He was doing stuff like his 450 off the top there. And even a catapult version off the apron. WCW was certainly doing more than just a flying bodypress with more than just Scorpio. With the Hollywood Blondes Pillman and Austin often used a double splash off the top as their finisher. When Rick Steiner was there he did a flying Bulldog. You know, the move that eventually broke Bagwell's neck. When Mr. Wonderful had to retire they had Ric Flair and Arn Anderson deliver a spiked piledriver on concrete. And of course there were those years with Cactus Jack on the roster. I don't really remember enough of WWF to know about their high impact moves. I still mostly saw their squash matches at the time. But I know Owen was a high flyer, Bret Hart did a variation of a Vader Bomb to a standing opponent on the outside and Bam Bam Bigelow was one of the most agile big men ever. I already said that I've seen scorpio in wcw. He was the only one doing moves like that in 1992-94, and then he went to ECW in 94 when it became Extreme. I am aware of what the product was back then. I've seen the splashes, flying body presses, diving headbutts, even the Whoppie cushion. But the dude did a summersault, spun in the air and hit a leg drop. not a splash, but a leg drop. Tell me who has done that in the states before he did that, because before seeing him do that in ECW, I never saw anything like that in my life. Ever. I was sold.
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Post by Judas Heyman on May 6, 2009 9:16:01 GMT -5
Raven/Dreamer. Best built fued ever. this alone made it great. But I agree that therewas a lot of crap too. How many people heard of Raven and Dreamer and their so called epic feud when they were in ECW?
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