Blindkarevik
Grimlock
Rock... Paper... Straight-edge!
I Like To <blank>
Posts: 14,343
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Post by Blindkarevik on May 6, 2009 11:21:21 GMT -5
I'd put it in the awesome category, but also say it's stuff someone can go back and watch and immediately enjoy. Chances are if you weren't there during its prime, you could go back and watch but come away wondering what the big deal was. Some stuff just worked due to the atmosphere and time period. For example.. they way they handled the initial Beulah pregnancy angle was brilliant. Where she admits she's pregnant... Raven gets pissed and hells at her, calling her stupid for not using protection.... she says "What do you care, it's not yours!" Raven turns and nails Stevie Richards, she screams.. "No, it's not his either." then it gets real quiet.... "It's Tommy's".. and Dreamer hits the ring for a beatdown.
If you watch it now, chances are you'd kinda groan and say "Oh... pregnancy angle, whatever.." but at the time, it was pretty groundbreaking how they handled it and it just worked due to everyone involved. It added to an already hot feud, and seemed to serve a purpose to keep it running longer rather than now when it seems they find two guys and say, "Let's have these two feud... How do we do that? I dunno.. grab a diva and do a pregnancy angle."
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bretclark
Bubba Ho-Tep
Scrutinize this...
Posts: 503
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Post by bretclark on May 6, 2009 23:52:55 GMT -5
I never liked violent wrestling and thats the reason I have hardly followed ECW, as I am a WWE fan. My smarky friends keep on telling me that ECW was awesome and it made WWE and WCW wrestlers look like a bunch of crybabies. I saw some old ECW videos on Youtube and didnot find them great. My question is whether ECW was really a great company with great wrestlling and storylines or was it the Heyman cool aid which made people believe it was? It was Awesome. ECW was at one point in time the number 2 promotion thanks to WCW incompetence and mismanagement (Raven leaving WCW for ECW and Mike Awesome going to WCW from ECW and getting his ass handed to him by a WWF guy while in WCW.). So it was a great company when it was growing, and the Paul Heyman cool-aid you speak of is just his booking style, which drew the fans to ECW shows and television. - bretclark
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Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on May 7, 2009 0:44:33 GMT -5
Overrated.
I was first introduced to ECW by Mick Foley's book MANKIND: A Tale of Blood and Sweatsocks. As I read his detailing of ECW storylines and some of the promos he cut, I thought "Holy crap! I love WWF, but this stuff sounds awesome! It's got to be better than WCW at least! (I was majorly on the WWF Kool-aid and hated WCW with a passion)" so I gave ECW a try.
It was horrible. The lighting was just miserable, the wrestling that I saw was all garbage wrestling with idiots grabbing crap after crap after crap and hitting each other with it, but the worst was the fans.
Now, I realize a lot of you guys on these forums loved the promotion. That's great, I don't have a problem with any of you or your tastes...but the fans I saw on ECW programming, to put it as gently as possible...they were total pricks. Someone in this thread said the fans loved to put themselves over. That's the perfect way I can describe it. Another person said "ECW, it's wrestlers, and it's fans were like a family." that's another good description...and if you came in, liking ANYTHING else and were new to the ECW product, the fans and sometimes the wrestlers made sure you felt like an unwanted outsider. There was, in my opinion, a lot of elitist thinking by the ECW fans and the ECW wrestlers...and when it died, I have to admit, a small part of me was glad just to shut those ECW elitist up.
After a while though, I felt bad for feeling that way. The ECW folks had their wrestling, and while I felt they weren't welcoming of outsiders, they didn't throw it in your face either (unlike WCW). So after some reflection, I realized to just let them have their tastes and leave them alone and enjoy my own tastes. I'm a fan of the 1980's super hero era wrestling and of the early 90's "safe wrestling." Different strokes for different folks.
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Post by skiller on May 7, 2009 0:54:25 GMT -5
Honestly ECW was a product of it's time. I really don't think it's aged too well.
So I say it's around the middle in those terms.
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
Posts: 6,483
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on May 7, 2009 1:59:53 GMT -5
AWESOME!
I was lucky enough to be able to witness the original ECW live. That promotion gave me a passion for pro wrestling whereas before I had been just a fan.
Did it have its crap, sure. But I NEVER once left an ECW show or watched an ECW show and had that "meh" feeling that I get after some WWE/f or WCW shows.
Another reason I say its awesome: We are still talking about it today. It was a small indy promotion that ran in a bingo hall and it somehow was able to get DVD's made about it almost a decade after its death, have a major promotion resurrect it and still gets talked about quite often.
To me, that is the very definition of "great", great things never truelly die.
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Post by Larryhausen on May 7, 2009 2:03:49 GMT -5
Honestly ECW was a product of it's time. I really don't think it's aged too well. So I say it's around the middle in those terms. I think that's of a chicken and the egg kind of argument, tbh. The reason ECW hasn't aged well is because their "blueprint" for storylines and angles has been copied and pasted onto mainstream wrestling ad nauseum for 10 years now. Let's say WWE and WCW hadn't taken some ideas of theirs and put them on national tv, and only now were realizing that fans might want to see some more adult storylines and feuds. In that case, ECW would be looked upon as way ahead of its time.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,919
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on May 7, 2009 2:30:30 GMT -5
Overrated for me.
I wasn't a fan at it's peak and watching old macthes now, I don't get the huge deal. Maybe I'd like it more if Styles didn't scream "OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!" every 11 seconds, but I can see why one would enjoy it. I just don't.
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Post by eDemento2099 on May 7, 2009 2:51:18 GMT -5
It's somewhere in the middle. I mean, really look at it this way, of ALL the talent ECW had, how many went on to MAJOR mainstream success? Raven, The Dudleys, and....? Hmm, let's see: Rob Van Dam, Jerry Lynn (Current ROH champ), Cactus Jack, Steve Austin, Brian Pillman, Rey Mysterio Jr., Chris Benoit, Perry Saturn, Dean Malenko, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Rhino, The Sandman, Taz, Mike Awesome, Bam Bam Bigelow... Do you seriously want me to keep going?
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Post by skiller on May 7, 2009 3:37:05 GMT -5
Honestly ECW was a product of it's time. I really don't think it's aged too well. So I say it's around the middle in those terms. I think that's of a chicken and the egg kind of argument, tbh. The reason ECW hasn't aged well is because their "blueprint" for storylines and angles has been copied and pasted onto mainstream wrestling ad nauseum for 10 years now. Let's say WWE and WCW hadn't taken some ideas of theirs and put them on national tv, and only now were realizing that fans might want to see some more adult storylines and feuds. In that case, ECW would be looked upon as way ahead of its time. And while that may be the case, I still think it's valid. IMO the Attitude era didn't age too well either.
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Post by Cap'n Crud on May 7, 2009 3:47:06 GMT -5
The thing you have to realize about ECW is ECW was it's own style. It was an alternative. I got sick of the stupid crap like clowns garbagemen, yetis, and sharks in WWF and WCW. It's part of why a lot of fans go onto indy feds like SHIMMER, ROH, CZW, and such. They get tired of TNA and WWE and want something else.
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Post by celticjobber on May 7, 2009 4:16:35 GMT -5
ECW was great and IMO, has aged much better than Attitude-era WWE or God forbid, late 90s WCW. If anything, I'd say ECW is actually under-rated these days (as most young marks who weren't around then, seem to enjoy tearing it down).
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dabossftw
Unicron
wants Yappapi in the proper position.
Posts: 2,581
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Post by dabossftw on May 7, 2009 4:31:51 GMT -5
It's somewhere in the middle. I mean, really look at it this way, of ALL the talent ECW had, how many went on to MAJOR mainstream success? Raven, The Dudleys, and....? Hmm, let's see: Rob Van Dam, Jerry Lynn (Current ROH champ), Cactus Jack, Steve Austin, Brian Pillman, Rey Mysterio Jr., Chris Benoit, Perry Saturn, Dean Malenko, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Rhino, The Sandman, Taz, Mike Awesome, Bam Bam Bigelow... Do you seriously want me to keep going? With that said, ECW was absolutely f'n awesome. Period. They were the "little engine that could", and influenced the business in many ways. The show was edgy, the fans were like inmates at an insane asylum, and the wrestlers were hungry for success. All three of these things combined made for a revolutionary product. I highly doubt there will ever be another promotion like it.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on May 7, 2009 4:55:51 GMT -5
At the time...really, really awesome.
Now...really, really overrated.
ROH over the past couple years was way better IMO than any ECW. And I kind of can't stand ROH. ECW was 1980s Memphis cheap, goofy heat...trying to wear a leather jacket and look like 1994 MTV (and Paul Heyman never went past what was cool on MTV in 1994...ECW TV on TNN in 2000 looked outdated and really hacky, uncool, and amateur.)
Even the classic ECW parts that stand up to this day....Cactus Jack promos, Funk v. Sabu v. Douglas, Malenko v. Eddie for the TV title, Lucha Libre, Raven/Sandman/Dreamer, Austin's little stay, TAZ's era of dominating....everybody stole from ECW and made it better. During the late-1990s boom, WCW and WWE/F did everything ECW did and did it better.
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kdawg
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 659
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Post by kdawg on May 7, 2009 11:52:52 GMT -5
ECW imo was awesome. For me it wasn't necessarily better than WCW or WWF/E but was just as important to all of wrestling for its own reasons. For its time, it was SUPER edgy. It was pretty much "R-rated" wrestling compared to "PG". It was so edgy that most areas and cable/satellite providers refused to air it. If it wasn't for ECW, we wouldn't have the Attitude Era. Period. From the fans and atmosphere, to the "hardcore" garbage, to the lucha libre to the RVD, Lynn, Eddie, Benoit type wrestlers, ECW had a bit of everything, turned up 100 degrees. As a previous poster had mentioned, this was also during a time when other companies had clowns, dungeon of doom, race car driver, adam bomb, etc. etc. ECW had fans chanting awful things at women, wrestlers drinking beer, smoking, droping F bombs, insane moves, fans handing wrestlers weapons to use etc.
If you weren't around to live it, you can't really appreciate how revolutionary it was for its time.
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Post by Bobby Womack on May 7, 2009 12:40:54 GMT -5
It's somewhere in the middle. I mean, really look at it this way, of ALL the talent ECW had, how many went on to MAJOR mainstream success? Raven, The Dudleys, and....? Hmm, let's see: Rob Van Dam, Jerry Lynn (Current ROH champ), Cactus Jack, Steve Austin, Brian Pillman, Rey Mysterio Jr., Chris Benoit, Perry Saturn, Dean Malenko, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Rhino, The Sandman, Taz, Mike Awesome, Bam Bam Bigelow... Do you seriously want me to keep going? please dont keep going seeing as you should have stopped that list less than half way through, rvd, austin, foley, rey, benoit, jericho, eddie? sure, even though foley and austin were wcw guys before being ecw guys and benoit rey and eddie also wrestled a wcw card before ecw jerry lynn? roh isnt mainstream sorry, pillman, saturn, malenko, rhino, sandman, taz? midcarding in wwe doesnt equal major mainstream success, and neither does upper midcarding in a dying wcw for mike awesome, and i dont know how you can even suggest bam bam when his biggest success was before ever being in ecw, thats like crediting ric flairs success in wrestling to his appearances in roh
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Post by nerdinitupagain on May 7, 2009 14:33:43 GMT -5
ECW will always be classic to anyone who grew up watching it. It's much harder going back and trying to figure out what the magic was nearly 8 years after it died.
The storylines were awesome, unfiltered, and edgy. Hell, they made smark fans really really hate wrestlers. That's one of the most impressive things to me.
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Post by thereallybigshow on May 7, 2009 14:51:56 GMT -5
AWESOME
Seriously watching ECW in hindsight doesn't truly give you any insight into the product.
WWF and WCW were TERRIBLE. Seriously go watch Wrestlemania 9-11. Just imagine how TERRIBLE the other PPVs were.
Times have changed. In 1994 it was IN to hate Ric Flair. It was IN to hate Hulk Hogan.
Imagine if the ROH Champion cut a promo saying..."Screw HHH! Screw Mcmahon! This is professional wrestling! Do I entertain you? YES! I entertain you with wrestling! I don't come out here and dress like a F'n Woman! I don't come out here and spray F'n milk on you to make you cheer! I put on my wrestling trunks and wrestle my ass off! I am a professional wrestler! I am not an entertainer. Places like this is where professional wrestling was born! The WWE? Thats where yes men, and the down trodden go to DIE!"
The stuff ECW was doing was TABOO. It was something TOTALLY different.
What DVD would you rather buy? Best of ECW 1994-1996 Best of WWF 1994-1996 Best of WCW 1994-1996
ECW would have the wildest matches. Hottest women. Hottest crowds. Best pure wrestling. Best promos.
In context ECW is awesome. Production values didn't mean shit then. What mattered was drawing fans and making them happy.
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Post by don on May 7, 2009 21:40:47 GMT -5
ECW was one of those "you had to be there" things. Years after the fact it may not seem like a big deal; back then it was revolutionary, and produced some of the most memorable story lines and matches ever. Also, PLEASE do not compare WWE Attitude to ECW. ECWs angles were a lot more logical and thought out than the Attitude Era. There wasn't swerve after swerve to the point where it made no sense, the match quality was GREAT, and the garbage wrestling was intense, not mostly comedic. I agree. Do NOT compare the attitude era to ECW. WWE made millions of millions of dollars. ECW was on the brink of bankruptcy. Austin-McMahon and Austin-Rock are two of the biggest feuds in wrestling history. Tommy Dreamer-Raven was a feud that wasn't and isn't even on any fans' radars. The Great Khali was given the world title because everyone else was down to injury. ECW put their world title on The Sandman multiple times........ hmmm
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 7, 2009 22:01:29 GMT -5
they had some great great years before they got on PPV. Raven's feuds with Sandman and Dreamer were awesome. THe Evolution of the Dudley Boys from a comedy stable to the amazing heel tag team was interesting. Sabu/Tazz was a great feud. As was Douglas and the Pitbulls (though seeing Douglas shake Wolfe's halo was a bit much). Cactus Jack going anti-hardcore gave legendary promos. Superstar Steve Austin was hilarious. Watching the Eliminators, Gangstas, and Public Enemy kill each other was awesome as well.
Barely Legal remains one of my favorite PPVs of all time. Also loved Heatwave 98 and Anarchy Rulez 99.
The sad thing about ECW is the majority never saw ECW at it's peak, only what they saw on TNN and youtube. The thing that was so beautiful is so many of ECW's greatest wrestlers/feuds all came from the Raven/Dreamer feud.
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Post by Judas Heyman on May 10, 2009 1:27:38 GMT -5
ECW imo was awesome. For me it wasn't necessarily better than WCW or WWF/E but was just as important to all of wrestling for its own reasons. For its time, it was SUPER edgy. It was pretty much "R-rated" wrestling compared to "PG". It was so edgy that most areas and cable/satellite providers refused to air it. If it wasn't for ECW, we wouldn't have the Attitude Era. Period. From the fans and atmosphere, to the "hardcore" garbage, to the lucha libre to the RVD, Lynn, Eddie, Benoit type wrestlers, ECW had a bit of everything, turned up 100 degrees. As a previous poster had mentioned, this was also during a time when other companies had clowns, dungeon of doom, race car driver, adam bomb, etc. etc. ECW had fans chanting awful things at women, wrestlers drinking beer, smoking, droping F bombs, insane moves, fans handing wrestlers weapons to use etc. If you weren't around to live it, you can't really appreciate how revolutionary it was for its time. Basically the whole argument is about "One man's food being another man's poison".
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