randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Dec 30, 2010 10:48:58 GMT -5
Kaval supposedly said he was miserable on a WWE schedule and didn't see his chances improving. Does anyone think that mindset contributed to the way he was booked? If your heart isn't in it, then the chances you getting pushed are going to be slim, especially if you're as small as Kaval. As I understand it, the problem isn't just the way he was booked. The problem was that they basically told him that it wasn't going to change any time in the foreseeable future. Basically, they only saw him as a jobber and had no intentions of changing that. He saw the writing on the wall, looked at his options, and decided that he was better off on the indy circuit. Again, that's my understanding of it. The Miz has managed to come a long ways despite being in a similar uphill position. The Miz had an undefeated streak at the beginning of his career. Not really similar. Miz had his ups and downs, but you always knew that the WWE had bigger long term plans for him. He was on the losing end of a lot of matches, but he also had midcard and tag title runs, along with things like the Dirtsheet, etc. to keep him relevant. He was never booked as an outright jobber like Kaval was. Has anybody heard about the booking fee he's charging now? From what I've heard, it's f***ing astronomical. Makes what Danielson was charging look easy. So what is it? Kinda hard to discuss if his asking price is too high without knowing what it supposedly is.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 30, 2010 11:18:43 GMT -5
My guess is that he wants to be paid as much (or more) per match as WWE was giving him. Which is a mistake because there's no indie fed able to pay for that on a regular basis. He'll get plenty of one time gigs though. He passes for a big name, now more than ever so he's a better draw than 99.9% of guys on the scene. We have a local show coming up on New Year's Day that has the American Wolves, Jimmy Jacobs, Jon Moxley, and Colt Cabana on it, just to name a few. And for the price of all of them, it STILL wouldn't come close to the cost of 1 Low-Ki. Well that puts PWG and ROH out of the running for his services. And I doubt Saplosky would break the bank on him ever since his last experience with him went oh so well. Guess it's smaller east coast indies and Japan in his future.
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Post by Tyfo on Dec 30, 2010 17:38:42 GMT -5
Brandon Silvestry (a/k/a Kaval/Low Ki) requested his release from World Wrestling Entertainment after being frustrated with his position in the organization. The company's creative department was told to bury him after winning the second season of NXT, until a decision was made that he was built up for a few weeks for an Intercontinental Championship Match against Dolph Ziggler at Survivor Series. After losing at the pay-per-view event, creative was told to resume burying him.
Following his quick loss to Drew McIntyre on the Dec. 21 episode of SmackDown!, he reportedly asked WWE management if he had any heat with them, to which he was told no. He then queried if they had any future plans for him and was told they really didn't at that time. He subsequently asked to be released from his contract, which was officially granted two days later.
Silvestry joined WWE in late 2008 while reigning as IWGP Junior Heavyweight Champion in Japan. Original creative plans called for him to adopt a masked character and feud with Rey Mysterio. As he was awaiting his call-up to the main roster, he suffered a severe leg injury in January 2009, which sidelined him for nine months. Creative lost interest in utilizing the program by the time he healed and he remained in developmental until June, when it was announced he would be a participant in the second season of NXT.
Silvestry will be returning to the independent scene under his original ring name, Low Ki. Welcome back!
Source: The Pro Wrestling Torch
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Psychoblue
Don Corleone
WrestleCrap #1 Kona Crush mark (probably)
Posts: 1,664
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Post by Psychoblue on Dec 30, 2010 17:44:24 GMT -5
Brandon Silvestry (a/k/a Kaval/Low Ki) requested his release from World Wrestling Entertainment after being frustrated with his position in the organization. The company's creative department was told to bury him after winning the second season of NXT, until a decision was made that he was built up for a few weeks for an Intercontinental Championship Match against Dolph Ziggler at Survivor Series. After losing at the pay-per-view event, creative was told to resume burying him.Following his quick loss to Drew McIntyre on the Dec. 21 episode of SmackDown!, he reportedly asked WWE management if he had any heat with them, to which he was told no. He then queried if they had any future plans for him and was told they really didn't at that time. He subsequently asked to be released from his contract, which was officially granted two days later. Silvestry joined WWE in late 2008 while reigning as IWGP Junior Heavyweight Champion in Japan. Original creative plans called for him to adopt a masked character and feud with Rey Mysterio. As he was awaiting his call-up to the main roster, he suffered a severe leg injury in January 2009, which sidelined him for nine months. Creative lost interest in utilizing the program by the time he healed and he remained in developmental until June, when it was announced he would be a participant in the second season of NXT. Silvestry will be returning to the independent scene under his original ring name, Low Ki. Welcome back! Source: The Pro Wrestling Torch Well, that's helpful. I have a hard time believing Vince McMahon was just say "Hey, let's bury this guy we've had in developmental for a year and a half" if Kaval hadn't done anything to earn his ire. Something else must have happened behind the scenes that caused people to sour on Kaval. Either that or the Torch is just pulling something out of its butt.
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Post by Metalheadbanger Man on Dec 30, 2010 17:46:13 GMT -5
They were told to bury him? I'd like not to believe that, but it did seem to be the case.
Again, good on the guy for getting out, if they had no plans for him. Which in itself is ridiculous, seeing as he is extremely talented, and could get over just with his matches alone.
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Post by Tyfo on Dec 30, 2010 17:49:21 GMT -5
They were told to bury him? I'd like not to believe that, but it did seem to be the case. Again, good on the guy for getting out, if they had no plans for him. Which in itself is ridiculous, seeing as he is extremely talented, and could get over just with his matches alone. There's no way you CAN'T believe it. The guy lost to f***ing Chavo Guerrero!
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Psychoblue
Don Corleone
WrestleCrap #1 Kona Crush mark (probably)
Posts: 1,664
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Post by Psychoblue on Dec 30, 2010 17:50:40 GMT -5
They were told to bury him? I'd like not to believe that, but it did seem to be the case. Again, good on the guy for getting out, if they had no plans for him. Which in itself is ridiculous, seeing as he is extremely talented, and could get over just with his matches alone. There's no way you CAN'T believe it. The guy lost to f***ing Chavo Guerrero! I have trouble believing they were just told to bury him for no reason. Kaval has a history of attitude problems so it's entirely possible that he ticked off the wrong people and he paid the price.
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Post by Metalheadbanger Man on Dec 30, 2010 17:54:09 GMT -5
They were told to bury him? I'd like not to believe that, but it did seem to be the case. Again, good on the guy for getting out, if they had no plans for him. Which in itself is ridiculous, seeing as he is extremely talented, and could get over just with his matches alone. There's no way you CAN'T believe it. The guy lost to f***ing Chavo Guerrero! I remember being baffled when I saw that. But even then I still had hope that he would start winning matches eventually.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Dec 30, 2010 17:54:52 GMT -5
Brandon Silvestry (a/k/a Kaval/Low Ki) requested his release from World Wrestling Entertainment after being frustrated with his position in the organization. The company's creative department was told to bury him after winning the second season of NXT, until a decision was made that he was built up for a few weeks for an Intercontinental Championship Match against Dolph Ziggler at Survivor Series. After losing at the pay-per-view event, creative was told to resume burying him. Following his quick loss to Drew McIntyre on the Dec. 21 episode of SmackDown!, he reportedly asked WWE management if he had any heat with them, to which he was told no. He then queried if they had any future plans for him and was told they really didn't at that time. He subsequently asked to be released from his contract, which was officially granted two days later. Silvestry joined WWE in late 2008 while reigning as IWGP Junior Heavyweight Champion in Japan. Original creative plans called for him to adopt a masked character and feud with Rey Mysterio. As he was awaiting his call-up to the main roster, he suffered a severe leg injury in January 2009, which sidelined him for nine months. Creative lost interest in utilizing the program by the time he healed and he remained in developmental until June, when it was announced he would be a participant in the second season of NXT. Silvestry will be returning to the independent scene under his original ring name, Low Ki. Welcome back! Source: The Pro Wrestling Torch The biggest inaccuracy I can find in here is the statement that Kaval was "built up for a few weeks" for his Survivor Series match against Ziggler. He was being used as his usual jobbing self until TWO DAYS BEFORE THE PAY-PER-VIEW, at which point he got to beat Ziggler via rollup and declared his intent to use his title shot that Sunday, and then immediately went back to jobbing after the match. The whole thing was thrown out as quickly as possible to write off the whole "guaranteed PPV title shot" thing from NXT as discretely as possible. I've no idea what the rationale behind Kaval's booking was, but once again, if he didn't have serious attitude problems backstage or get into any other offscreen BS that seriously soured management on him, the whole fiasco is pathetic.
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Post by Tyfo on Dec 30, 2010 17:58:03 GMT -5
Due to them saying they had no immediate plans for him, I honestly believe the situation was that they went 100% by fan voting on NXT, which we have heard was defiantly the case for Season 3 with Kaitlyn winning.
I think they went completely by fan voting, which Kaval won, and then were bitter because that's not who they thought and/or wanted to win. Thus they had no idea what to do with him, so he just jobbed.
Look at the other guys from NXT season 2 (who didn't completely suck, i.e. Cannon, Cottonwood, O'Neil), they for the most part have ended up with far better positions then Kaval.
Alex Riley is the Miz's sidekick, and thus is involved in major angles, while McGillicutty and Harris are in Nexus, and thus involved in major angles.
None of them win much either at this time, but they aren't just straight up jobbers with no purpose like Kaval seemed to be while on SmackDown.
I just think they resented Kaval for getting over on his own on NXT and plus having an already established fan base behind him, while they wanted people to get behind someone else. No I'm not saying it's a "WWE hates all indy wrestlers blah blah blah" deal, because that's not true at all. I just think they really honestly did not have a purpose for Kaval after he was injured in FCW and he was put on NXT just to take up space more or less.
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Post by s l i k on Dec 30, 2010 17:58:04 GMT -5
This might be the longest running release thread I've ever seen on here.
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Post by Metalheadbanger Man on Dec 30, 2010 18:03:26 GMT -5
This might be the longest running release thread I've ever seen on here. Daniel Bryan's was huge. There were 5 threads about it, or something crazy.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Dec 30, 2010 18:11:29 GMT -5
Due to them saying they had no immediate plans for him, I honestly believe the situation was that they went 100% by fan voting on NXT, which we have heard was defiantly the case for Season 3 with Kaitlyn winning. I think they went completely by fan voting, which Kaval won, and then were bitter because that's not who they thought and/or wanted to win. Thus they had no idea what to do with him, so he just jobbed. Look at the other guys from NXT season 2 (who didn't completely suck, i.e. Cannon, Cottonwood, O'Neil), they for the most part have ended up with far better positions then Kaval. Alex Riley is the Miz's sidekick, and thus is involved in major angles, while McGillicutty and Harris are in Nexus, and thus involved in major angles. None of them win much either at this time, but they aren't just straight up jobbers with no purpose like Kaval seemed to be while on SmackDown. I just think they resented Kaval for getting over on his own on NXT and plus having an already established fan base behind him, while they wanted people to get behind someone else. No I'm not saying it's a "WWE hates all indy wrestlers blah blah blah" deal, because that's not true at all. I just think they really honestly did not have a purpose for Kaval after he was injured in FCW and he was put on NXT just to take up space more or less. I don't think there was any actual resentment behind it so much as the bookers assuming, as always, that they know better than the fans and sticking to their plans regardless of audience reactions. I'd compare it to Mark Henry's face turn last year, when he unexpectedly got SPECTACULARLY over and fans were popping huge for the possibility of him challeging Orton for the WWE title. So, naturally, he spent weeks appearing in comedy skits with Hornswoggle and then went on to team up with MVP as a pair of jobbers while the summer was spent having five consecutive Cena vs. Orton PPV world title matches. Kaval was pegged as a small guy who'd be used, at best, as talent enhancement to lose and get other guys over. The fact that fans got behind him and voted for him to be the, ahem, "next breakout star" just meant that the fans were misguided, and didn't do anything to dissuade the bookers from using him as a punching bag to prove how tough Drew McIntyre is. It's the way WWE looks at things. It's the reason Ted Dibiase Junior has headlined PPVs and still gets hefty amounts of wrestling and mic time on RAW week after week after failing to connect with the crowds on any discernable level. It's pathetic.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 30, 2010 18:17:37 GMT -5
This might be the longest running release thread I've ever seen on here. Daniel Bryan's was huge. There were 5 threads about it, or something crazy. The threads coming after the Benoit fiasco still probably hold the all-time record.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 30, 2010 18:32:38 GMT -5
Actually that report was never on the Torch. It's a Daniel Pena special because I checked the Torch archives and didn't see that report on their site. Rajah has struck again.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 30, 2010 18:46:11 GMT -5
Due to them saying they had no immediate plans for him, I honestly believe the situation was that they went 100% by fan voting on NXT, which we have heard was defiantly the case for Season 3 with Kaitlyn winning. I think they went completely by fan voting, which Kaval won, and then were bitter because that's not who they thought and/or wanted to win. Thus they had no idea what to do with him, so he just jobbed. Look at the other guys from NXT season 2 (who didn't completely suck, i.e. Cannon, Cottonwood, O'Neil), they for the most part have ended up with far better positions then Kaval. Alex Riley is the Miz's sidekick, and thus is involved in major angles, while McGillicutty and Harris are in Nexus, and thus involved in major angles. None of them win much either at this time, but they aren't just straight up jobbers with no purpose like Kaval seemed to be while on SmackDown. I just think they resented Kaval for getting over on his own on NXT and plus having an already established fan base behind him, while they wanted people to get behind someone else. No I'm not saying it's a "WWE hates all indy wrestlers blah blah blah" deal, because that's not true at all. I just think they really honestly did not have a purpose for Kaval after he was injured in FCW and he was put on NXT just to take up space more or less. I actually agree to an extent. I don't think they were bitter as much as they were expecting somebody else to win. In the first NXT to me it was obvious at the beginning that Heath Slater and David Otunga were the two guys creative wanted to be big (atleast at the beginning). Don't get me wrong, it was obvious that the WWE liked each of those wrestlers a lot to an extent, but they spent the first few weeks really trying to get them over. They just happened to like Barrett enough to roll with him. With Season 2 to me, it was obvious that they liked Riley, Mc... Joe Henning (can't spell that last name), Harris, and Watson the most.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,366
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Dec 30, 2010 19:21:09 GMT -5
Actually that report was never on the Torch. It's a Daniel Pena special because I checked the Torch archives and didn't see that report on their site. Rajah has struck again. Well, the fact that it was Rajah meant that the rumor's credibility was questionable in the first place, but if is just that asshat's name attached then the report is worthless. This is the same guy that completely made up the rumor that Benoit was deep in an affair with Tara/Victoria and that was suspected to have played a role in his paranoia and the subsequent events. Not only did he not have any proof, there was none because he just chose to make up something salacious about her since she was making minor waves during her start at TNA.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Dec 30, 2010 20:25:39 GMT -5
Due to them saying they had no immediate plans for him, I honestly believe the situation was that they went 100% by fan voting on NXT, which we have heard was defiantly the case for Season 3 with Kaitlyn winning. I think they went completely by fan voting, which Kaval won, and then were bitter because that's not who they thought and/or wanted to win. Thus they had no idea what to do with him, so he just jobbed. Look at the other guys from NXT season 2 (who didn't completely suck, i.e. Cannon, Cottonwood, O'Neil), they for the most part have ended up with far better positions then Kaval. Alex Riley is the Miz's sidekick, and thus is involved in major angles, while McGillicutty and Harris are in Nexus, and thus involved in major angles. None of them win much either at this time, but they aren't just straight up jobbers with no purpose like Kaval seemed to be while on SmackDown. I just think they resented Kaval for getting over on his own on NXT and plus having an already established fan base behind him, while they wanted people to get behind someone else. No I'm not saying it's a "WWE hates all indy wrestlers blah blah blah" deal, because that's not true at all. I just think they really honestly did not have a purpose for Kaval after he was injured in FCW and he was put on NXT just to take up space more or less. You're overlooking a big difference between Kaval, Riley and McGillicutty. They are followers, he stood on his own. What would a win on NXT have given them?
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Post by Citizen Zero on Dec 31, 2010 7:58:34 GMT -5
I should also mention to people that keep pointing at DBD's jobbing that in most of his NXT-era matches he was still booked as a threat, and there were usually extenuating circumstances behind his losses (his bump when he fought Jericho, for example).
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 31, 2010 12:39:34 GMT -5
I'm not going to comment on the actual content of Ki/Kaval's matches, as I haven't seen any of his WWE work, but going by what I read here concerning a number of guys on the roster and the circumstances surrounding their releases, it's apparent that WWE needs to get it's house in order, and quickly, when it comes to roster structure.
There shouldn't be any shame, as a wrestler, in being over in a midcard spot. However, in WWE, midcard spots don't really exist: guys either appear to be jobbers, main eventers, or "potential future world champions".
Not for nothing, but in his day, Mr. Perfect was insanely over as a heel who held onto the IC title with a vise-like grip and lorded his "perfection" over everybody. He did gun once or twice for the WWF title, but even as IC champ, he was a major factor on WWE programming, so much so that when he couldn't compete for awhile, they paired him up with newly arrived top heel Ric Flair.
Even better, Perfect didn't remain on top by "squashing" main roster talent; he'd dominate and toss out jobbers like they were nothing, but then have competitive matches against Texas Tornado, Big Boss Man, and Brutus Beefcake, among others.
Look at those three babyface names, by the way: looking back, were any of them ever on track to become WWF champion? Maybe Tornado, though his push never went that far. But they were VERY over (like it or not), even though out of the three, only Tornado beat Perfect at some point.
That's because, just as Perfect was kept strong against jobbers, the babyfaces got to do the same thing, as well. They didn't take young up-and-coming heels and destroy them, they beat around no names who were there for an easy pay check, and got all their signature spots over in the process. Also, even if they weren't involved in a highly featured feud, it kept them on TV, as a quick "remember me? I'm still dangerous!" to the audience.
What does this have to do with Kaval, MVP, Matt Hardy, Christian, etc.?
None of these guys were on track to be World Champion in the near future, I presume, going by what I've seen here. However, in an ideal wrestling world, all could've kept heat, could've remained very over, and remained relevant on their shows, except instead of them being kept strong against jobbers, they were instead fed to other main roster talent or depushed in other ways. Forget the midcard, clearly: it doesn't exist anymore. You're either food for the main eventers, or you're being booked to the moon as a future champion.
This presents a rough situation for these guys: stick around too long as a jobber on mainstream wrestling programming, and guess what? People aren't going to pay you a whole lot to appear on their indy shows in the event you get released, at least not as much as you could potentially be making. Your brand name recognition is hurt. Maybe your chances of being booked in Japan or other countries gets hurt. Your chances of reappearing on US mainstream wrestling also take a hit.
Now, maybe it goes the other way: maybe creative finds something to do with you, or maybe the company takes a liking to you so much that, even if you're a jobber now, you'll have a nice, cushy road agent spot waiting for you after you retire. However, for young wrestlers still looking to optimize their earning potential, is that a risk worth taking, a wait-and-see approach to see if it pays off?
WWE has had the same problem for what's soon going to be a decade: they emphasize the same small batch of main eventers at one time, and everyone else is left to languish. Sure, they build a few young guys up to be main eventers at some point (to WWE's credit, Cena, Orton, Miz, and some of the others I've seen bits of can all be considered "home grown stars"), but the majority aren't given a damn thing to do. Most don't even seem to get a chance to go out and squash a jobber to keep their faces on TV in a winning situation; they're just out there losing to guys that creative has bigger plans for.
Ergo, if I went to my bosses there, found out I had no backstage heat, but that they also had no plans for me for the foreseeable future, while I have to pay my hotel/driving/other traveling fees the whole time, I'd likely get impatient, too.
To sum up: develop an actual midcard that matters, and these guys will have places to go and ways to keep themselves fresh and relevant. Don't, and you get the situation you've had for about 7-8 years now: you're either a World Champ, a future World Champ, or you're eventual future endeavor material.
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