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Post by Kangaroo_Punch on Dec 31, 2010 23:06:10 GMT -5
I'm not going to comment ... or you're eventual future endeavor material. This whole rant makes more sense than anything I've ever read, ever.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jan 1, 2011 2:24:37 GMT -5
Even better, Perfect didn't remain on top by "squashing" main roster talent; he'd dominate and toss out jobbers like they were nothing, but then have competitive matches against Texas Tornado, Big Boss Man, and Brutus Beefcake, among others. Look at those three babyface names, by the way: looking back, were any of them ever on track to become WWF champion? Maybe Tornado, though his push never went that far. But they were VERY over (like it or not), even though out of the three, only Tornado beat Perfect at some point. Beefcake beat Perfect as well, at Wrestlemania VI.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 1, 2011 14:04:19 GMT -5
Even better, Perfect didn't remain on top by "squashing" main roster talent; he'd dominate and toss out jobbers like they were nothing, but then have competitive matches against Texas Tornado, Big Boss Man, and Brutus Beefcake, among others. Look at those three babyface names, by the way: looking back, were any of them ever on track to become WWF champion? Maybe Tornado, though his push never went that far. But they were VERY over (like it or not), even though out of the three, only Tornado beat Perfect at some point. Beefcake beat Perfect as well, at Wrestlemania VI. Ah, my fault, I meant to say beat him for the IC belt. I had thought he and Beefcake had an IC title feud, but my memory may not be 100% on that. Regardless, the point remains that even after not toppling IC champ Mr. Perfect, the babyfaces who challenged him didn't fall off the face of the Earth, and managed to stay over with the audience, because of the different format and roster structure of the day.
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r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
Posts: 16,479
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Post by r. on Jan 1, 2011 17:15:59 GMT -5
Beefcake beat Perfect as well, at Wrestlemania VI. Ah, my fault, I meant to say beat him for the IC belt. I had thought he and Beefcake had an IC title feud, but my memory may not be 100% on that. Regardless, the point remains that even after not toppling IC champ Mr. Perfect, the babyfaces who challenged him didn't fall off the face of the Earth, and managed to stay over with the audience, because of the different format and roster structure of the day. Jake The Snake is a prime example of a guy who never won any titles, but managed to stay over because he wasn't treated as an afterthought.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jan 1, 2011 18:28:31 GMT -5
Ah, my fault, I meant to say beat him for the IC belt. I had thought he and Beefcake had an IC title feud, but my memory may not be 100% on that. Regardless, the point remains that even after not toppling IC champ Mr. Perfect, the babyfaces who challenged him didn't fall off the face of the Earth, and managed to stay over with the audience, because of the different format and roster structure of the day. Jake The Snake is a prime example of a guy who never won any titles, but managed to stay over because he wasn't treated as an afterthought. to me, losing doesn't make you an afterthought. He was frequently seen backstage, always got his entrance music, usually got a finisher attempt in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2011 18:36:24 GMT -5
I think it's important to point out that since Kaval's name is also the name of a Turkish woodwind instrument, this may actually be the doing of the Turkish government who threatened to sue over national origin royalties if WWE didn't drop the name or fire him.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
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Post by dav on Jan 1, 2011 18:53:22 GMT -5
I think it's important to point out that since Kaval's name is also the name of a Turkish woodwind instrument, this may actually be the doing of the Turkish government who threatened to sue over national origin royalties if WWE didn't drop the name or fire him. What.
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Post by Alex Shelley on Jan 1, 2011 18:56:43 GMT -5
I'm not going to comment on the actual content of Ki/Kaval's matches... *applaud* This is exactly what I've been saying for some time now, but you put it all so much better than I could have.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2011 19:22:48 GMT -5
I think it's important to point out that since Kaval's name is also the name of a Turkish woodwind instrument, this may actually be the doing of the Turkish government who threatened to sue over national origin royalties if WWE didn't drop the name or fire him. What. Michael McGillicutty hinted at this. "Kaval means 'flute.'" Which isn't actually correct, but the kaval is from Turkey. Let us not forget that the mayor of Batman, Turkey sued DC Comics for the use of the name "Batman" in its popular media. Sure, the lawsuit failed, but DC is a lot more powerful than WWE. Think about it. Osman was the first sultan of what became an expansive empire. The Turks actually coined the name "Osmanli" for the empire, after his name. Associating a guy with a thing. So if they'll do that, what's to stop them from making the connection between a beloved musical instrument from Turkey, and a flying bald guy who isn't from Turkey? And moreover, what's to stop litigation?
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 1, 2011 20:12:28 GMT -5
Actually that report was never on the Torch. It's a Daniel Pena special because I checked the Torch archives and didn't see that report on their site. Rajah has struck again. I heard about that guy. I'm surprised he is still around, but then again, any bozo can post on the internet and call themselves a reporter. Anyway, I would have to go based on what was on what we saw. It seemed like they were doing an angle to build up as much sympathy as possible for Kaval. Losing to Chavo Guerrero was strange, but it seemed as if they were featuring Kaval more in the match, simply based on the fact he wrestled every week, and Chavo didn't. Since it came out that he asked for his release, one can believe that somebody asked him about it, and he may've said, yes, I asked for my release. Now, from that, we could consider why. Well, we look on television, and we figure out that he was losing constantly, and it seemed like he was going down on that trend. Maybe there could have been some point in the future that they thought of something, but from what it seemed, he was used as a strong jobber, where he got good offense in, but never could "make it a win". It's strange though that a guy like Titus O'Neil is still on the roster, after having an epically bad promo, and no selling one of their stars' big moves, and it seems like they're wasting talent, as Kaval could have a good match with a chunk of the roster. He had a good match with Dolph Ziggler at the pay per view, but it didn't get much reaction from the crowd. However, many wrestlers have had that problem before, and it didn't matter that much. I think it seemed they did have a plan of Kaval. They wanted him to fit into that jobber of the stars role, as they got rid of guys like Little Guido and Funaki recently who filled that void before him. It may've lead to good job security, but in the end, that's not what he wanted. At least, that's what it seems.
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Chainsaw
T
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It is what it is
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Post by Chainsaw on Jan 2, 2011 0:01:20 GMT -5
Actually that report was never on the Torch. It's a Daniel Pena special because I checked the Torch archives and didn't see that report on their site. Rajah has struck again. I figured as much. It sounds absolutely slipshod, especially the whole "Creative was instructed to bury him" angle. Makes no sense in the context of the story.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Jan 2, 2011 0:22:07 GMT -5
What. Michael McGillicutty hinted at this. "Kaval means 'flute.'" Which isn't actually correct, but the kaval is from Turkey. Let us not forget that the mayor of Batman, Turkey sued DC Comics for the use of the name "Batman" in its popular media. Sure, the lawsuit failed, but DC is a lot more powerful than WWE. Think about it. Osman was the first sultan of what became an expansive empire. The Turks actually coined the name "Osmanli" for the empire, after his name. Associating a guy with a thing. So if they'll do that, what's to stop them from making the connection between a beloved musical instrument from Turkey, and a flying bald guy who isn't from Turkey? And moreover, what's to stop litigation? .......This changes EVERYTHING!
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r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
Posts: 16,479
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Post by r. on Jan 2, 2011 0:51:53 GMT -5
Jake The Snake is a prime example of a guy who never won any titles, but managed to stay over because he wasn't treated as an afterthought. to me, losing doesn't make you an afterthought. He was frequently seen backstage, always got his entrance music, usually got a finisher attempt in. Not exactly what I ment, Midcarders nowadays win or lose are presented as time fillers until the main event stars appear, there treated like trailers before a main movie.
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Post by Beets by Schrute on Jan 2, 2011 2:59:47 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan-Fired over a tie. Kaval- Fired over a flute.
Anyone wanna guess what object will get Seth Rollins fired? ;D
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Jan 2, 2011 3:56:09 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan-Fired over a tie. Kaval- Fired over a flute. Anyone wanna guess what object will get Seth Rollins fired? ;D A magic wand?
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Post by Alex Shelley on Jan 2, 2011 4:02:41 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan-Fired over a tie. Kaval- Fired over a flute. Anyone wanna guess what object will get Seth Rollins fired? ;D A magic wand? World Wrestling Entertainment has come to terms on the release of FCW Superstar Seth Rollins as of today, January 2, 2011 for attempting to use an Unforgivable Curse on one of his opponents. We wish Rollins the best in all future endeavors.
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Post by Jacob Lee on Jan 2, 2011 11:49:56 GMT -5
I wish I could feel sorry for Kaval, but I just really cannot.
I liked his matches and even enjoyed some of his NXT interaction with LayCool. However, I think he's getting way too much sympathy over this. If WWE had absolutely NO PLANS for the guy then why did they ask him not to quit at first?
Also, since when did jobbing for a few months become a big deal? Wrestling is not real, folks. He's not really losing any match. I feel bad for a guy like Zack Ryder (who's arguably more talented than Kaval) who legit enjoys getting ANY screen time and doesn't take himself so seriously.
Finally, the Hardys, 1-2-3 Kid and quite a few others were huge on the indy scene and WWE jobbed them out WAY longer than Kaval or Daniel Bryan.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jan 2, 2011 12:23:52 GMT -5
I wish I could feel sorry for Kaval, but I just really cannot. I liked his matches and even enjoyed some of his NXT interaction with LayCool. However, I think he's getting way too much sympathy over this. If WWE had absolutely NO PLANS for the guy then why did they ask him not to quit at first? Also, since when did jobbing for a few months become a big deal? Wrestling is not real, folks. He's not really losing any match. I feel bad for a guy like Zack Ryder (who's arguably more talented than Kaval) who legit enjoys getting ANY screen time and doesn't take himself so seriously. Finally, the Hardys, 1-2-3 Kid and quite a few others were huge on the indy scene and WWE jobbed them out WAY longer than Kaval or Daniel Bryan. Have to say I agree. Kaval was on TV and making money, but it seems to me that because he wasn't getting a push he packed up his toys and went home. Sure, you kinda have to respect his own sense of respect, but it also looks to me like someone bought their own hype and thought themselves better than the company, and when it comes to working in the WWE, no one is bigger than WWE.
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r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
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Post by r. on Jan 2, 2011 13:04:54 GMT -5
Ok, it has to be said… People who say "wins and loses don't matter" truly have no concept of the business and what draws money. Matches draw money. Conflicts between “winners” draw money. People suspend disbelief and view it, in that moment, as a combat sport. And if you don't "win", or at least project a sense of being credible, no one reacts to you unless you do so in a spectacularly ridiculous manner like Santino – which became his gimmick. No one buys Wrestlemania and says, “I don’t care who wins or loses”. People bought Hogan vs. Andre because both were booked as unbeatable. And now, doing battle, someone had to lose. Same with Hogan vs. Warrior. Same with Rock vs. Austin. Same with Rock vs. Hogan. Same with any match that moved numbers and created interest. Kids love Cena, not because he shows Respect & hustles or whatever the f***, but because he’s perceived as a winner. We gravitate to the successful – and lament their bad luck when inferior people cheat them. Credibility SELLS. Because we pretend its real. That’s the point. That’s how it works. And while he’ll never be a top guy, if a Kaval is perceived as a joke, and worthless, due to the fact he’s seen consistently losing, NO ONE WILL CARE ABOUT HIM. No one cares about bland vanilla guys who get killed. There’s nothing relatable or entertaining about it. It’s just a scrub getting demolished. And looking stupid in the process because he’s too dumb to see these ambushes and blind-sides coming. What’s to support? What’s there to rally behind? Who would hope this clueless jobber finally wins? Now, if it leads to a disgruntled heel-turn, I’ll commend WWE. But if not, and they release him for “not getting over”? That’s their fault. Oh, and must everything disintegrate into the moronic “You guys all want your Internet darlings to be World Champions!!!111” shtick? Why can’t I just want to see a guy, who is more talented than the fudge beanpoles they lose to, getting a break? There’s no reason on earth Kaval can’t be a decent IC –level mid-carder. Not everything is “us vs. them!” “Indy vs. Establishment!” You are not part of the WWE. I don’t represent the Indies or little dudes with kick-pads everywhere. The whole thing is big floppy clown shoes and makes you look like either a mark (the true meaning), or a forum gimmick. It’s beyond lame.
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Post by Jacob Lee on Jan 2, 2011 13:34:54 GMT -5
Ok, it has to be said… People who say "wins and loses don't matter" truly have no concept of the business and what draws money. Matches draw money. Conflicts between “winners” draw money. People suspend disbelief and view it, in that moment, as a combat sport. And if you don't "win", or at least project a sense of being credible, no one reacts to you unless you do so in a spectacularly ridiculous manner like Santino – which became his gimmick. No one buys Wrestlemania and says, “I don’t care who wins or loses”. People bought Hogan vs. Andre because both were booked as unbeatable. And now, doing battle, someone had to lose. Same with Hogan vs. Warrior. Same with Rock vs. Austin. Same with Rock vs. Hogan. Same with any match that moved numbers and created interest. Kids love Cena, not because he shows Respect & hustles or whatever the f***, but because he’s perceived as a winner. We gravitate to the successful – and lament their bad luck when inferior people cheat them. Credibility SELLS. Because we pretend its real. That’s the point. That’s how it works. And while he’ll never be a top guy, if a Kaval is perceived as a joke, and worthless, due to the fact he’s seen consistently losing, NO ONE WILL CARE ABOUT HIM. No one cares about bland vanilla guys who get killed. There’s nothing relatable or entertaining about it. It’s just a scrub getting demolished. And looking stupid in the process because he’s too dumb to see these ambushes and blind-sides coming. What’s to support? What’s there to rally behind? Who would hope this clueless jobber finally wins? Now, if it leads to a disgruntled heel-turn, I’ll commend WWE. But if not, and they release him for “not getting over”? That’s their fault. Oh, and must everything disintegrate into the moronic “You guys all want your Internet darlings to be World Champions!!!111” shtick? Why can’t I just want to see a guy, who is more talented than the fudge beanpoles they lose to, getting a break? There’s no reason on earth Kaval can’t be a decent IC –level mid-carder. Not everything is “us vs. them!” “Indy vs. Establishment!” You are not part of the WWE. I don’t represent the Indies or little dudes with kick-pads everywhere. The whole thing is big floppy clown shoes and makes you look like either a mark (the true meaning), or a forum gimmick. It’s beyond lame. I don't "pretend it's real" at all. I want the most entertaining guy out there. I don't care if he's lost eight million matches and won two. I'm not touching the Indy vs WWE comparison because I don't personally understand it or care. If wins and losses truly mattered as much as people say then nobody would be a star at all. How can we buy Cena as star when he lost to Billy Kidman when he started out? How about HHH main eventing a WrestleMania four years after being jobbed out for for almost a whole year and losing in seconds to the Warrior? Because wins a losses matter in real sports. Chris Jericho could lose to Percy Watson two weeks in a row and still have more heat than 99% of the roster.
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