Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2011 11:07:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I could see this going half and half. I'm sure a couple of MMA guys would absolutely wipe the floor with someone like, well, let's say The Miz. Not a slight against the guy, just an example. Now on the flipside of this, let's put an MMA guy in the cage with Kane. I think the outcome would be a little different. So in short, yes, there's going to be an MMA fighter who could demolish a WWE SuperStar, but there's going to be a few WWE SuperStars who will do the same. MMA still produces horrible clothing, either way. There's bound to be more MMA fighters who could beat up WWE superstars though. You said it like it's the opposite. Having a size advantage doesn't always mean they'll win. See Brock Lesnar vs Cain Velasquez. I'd like to see them fight. As in actually fight. No rules.
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Post by Citizen Zero on Mar 19, 2011 11:10:16 GMT -5
Sounds like someone needs a stiff lariat.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on Mar 19, 2011 11:11:38 GMT -5
I'd say "I watch wrestling because it isn't real fighting. I'm not interested in people trying to kill each other for my amusement."
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Post by Cam on Mar 19, 2011 11:13:33 GMT -5
There's bound to be more MMA fighters who could beat up WWE superstars though. You said it like it's the opposite. Having a size advantage doesn't always mean they'll win. See Brock Lesnar vs Cain Velasquez. I'd like to see them fight. As in actually fight. No rules. If that's the case Kane could beat anybody by just repeatedly punching them in the crotch.
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Post by Young Game on Mar 19, 2011 11:24:31 GMT -5
I'd like to see them fight. As in actually fight. No rules. If that's the case Kane could beat anybody by just repeatedly punching them in the crotch. From what I've read in Chris Jericho's book, I quite like Viscera's unique style of street fighting: - Impose will and weight upon them. - Force them to the ground. - Sit on them. - Wait for the authorities to arrive.
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Post by YellowJacketY2J on Mar 19, 2011 11:25:40 GMT -5
If that's the case Kane could beat anybody by just repeatedly punching them in the crotch. From what I've read in Chris Jericho's book, I quite like Viscera's unique style of street fighting: - Impose will and weight upon them. - Force them to the ground. - Sit on them. - Wait for the authorities to arrive. I'm imaging Viscera is eating popcorn while waiting for the authorities, which makes this ten times better.
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Mar 19, 2011 11:29:13 GMT -5
As a long time fan of both pro wrestling and MMA (I've been watching both since I was a kid) I really don't see why people can't like both for different reasons.
I watch pro wrestling to see guys do athletic things in the ring as well as the more hardcore/crazy stuff, like ladder and Hell in a Cell matches. I also love being able to follow a legit storyline explaining why these two guys are going to fight one another and why they hate each other so much.
As for MMA I like it because it can be brutal and isn't staged. There's always a tension when watching a match because it can literally end at any second. Take the Fedor/Werdum fight for example. Fedor hadn't lost in what, 10 years? And some guy who got booted out of the UFC ends up making him tap in like two minutes.
Each sport has its own benefits and downfalls. And I'd be willing to bet that the guy who talked about WWE like that was probably an Affliction wearing douche.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Mar 19, 2011 11:29:44 GMT -5
I mean, how's locking in an armbar going to help in a real fight. In a "real fight", you don't let the guy tap, you break his arm... Well duh, but no one's gonna sit there and let you lock it in are they? They aren't bound by rules, so you'd just get punched or they'd get a nut shot in.
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Post by Cam on Mar 19, 2011 11:31:06 GMT -5
If that's the case Kane could beat anybody by just repeatedly punching them in the crotch. From what I've read in Chris Jericho's book, I quite like Viscera's unique style of street fighting: - Impose will and weight upon them. - Force them to the ground. - Sit on them. - Wait for the authorities to arrive. While Jericho collects everyone's shirt.
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Post by Cam on Mar 19, 2011 11:32:07 GMT -5
In a "real fight", you don't let the guy tap, you break his arm... Well duh, but no one's gonna sit there and let you lock it in are they? They aren't bound by rules, so you'd just get punched or they'd get a nut shot in. That's what takedowns are for. Get taken down, kimura locked in with no referee, bam, broken arm.
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Post by generationxero on Mar 19, 2011 11:33:10 GMT -5
Unless they specifically take time to learn MMA, a pro wrestler will get his ass kicked by an MMA fighter every time. So guys like Regal, Bryan Danielson, Samoa Joe, Low-Ki, Kenta, Big Zeke, CM Punk, Sheamus, Mark Henry, Kozlov, Santino, Triple H, The Undertaker, Hernandez, and countless others will get their asses kicked by mma fighters every time? Have you ever seen any of these men in a legit fight? Of course you haven't, so stop with ludicrous presumptions.
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Post by frankincleveland on Mar 19, 2011 11:33:09 GMT -5
Tell the guy that if he wants real fighting, he should enlist in the military.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Mar 19, 2011 11:37:23 GMT -5
Well duh, but no one's gonna sit there and let you lock it in are they? They aren't bound by rules, so you'd just get punched or they'd get a nut shot in. That's what takedowns are for. Get taken down, kimura locked in with no referee, bam, broken arm. I've seen people go for takedowns in real fights though. Majority of the time they get either kneed in the head as they charge or punched in the back of the head.
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Post by Cam on Mar 19, 2011 11:41:58 GMT -5
That's what takedowns are for. Get taken down, kimura locked in with no referee, bam, broken arm. I've seen people go for takedowns in real fights though. Majority of the time they get either kneed in the head as they charge or punched in the back of the head. That's because they're not takedown/submission experts like a lot of MMA fighters are.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Mar 19, 2011 11:45:49 GMT -5
I've seen people go for takedowns in real fights though. Majority of the time they get either kneed in the head as they charge or punched in the back of the head. That's because they're not takedown/submission experts like a lot of MMA fighters are. Majority of wrestlers have some form of martial arts or other fighting background & aren't exactly slouches though. I still think that they'd probably have even bouts & it'd depend on who's Vs Who. I think Big Show would do all right. He's got boxing training & he's huge. I'd imagine It'd be difficult to Kimura or Leg Bar someone with his sized limbs.
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Post by Cam on Mar 19, 2011 11:48:53 GMT -5
That's because they're not takedown/submission experts like a lot of MMA fighters are. Majority of wrestlers have some form of martial arts or other fighting background & aren't exactly slouches though. I still think that they'd probably have even bouts & it'd depend on who's Vs Who. I think Big Show would do all right. He's got boxing training & he's huge. I'd imagine It'd be difficult to Kimura or Leg Bar someone with his sized limbs. No, the majority of wrestlers DON'T have martial arts or fighting backgrounds. They have sports backgrounds like basketball or American football. Big Show would do okay, but he doesn't have the cardio and a ton of leg kicks would leave him prone.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Mar 19, 2011 11:59:21 GMT -5
Majority of wrestlers have some form of martial arts or other fighting background & aren't exactly slouches though. I still think that they'd probably have even bouts & it'd depend on who's Vs Who. I think Big Show would do all right. He's got boxing training & he's huge. I'd imagine It'd be difficult to Kimura or Leg Bar someone with his sized limbs. No, the majority of wrestlers DON'T have martial arts or fighting backgrounds. They have sports backgrounds like basketball or American football. Big Show would do okay, but he doesn't have the cardio and a ton of leg kicks would leave him prone. Quite a few have amateur wrestling credentials & other things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2011 12:02:28 GMT -5
I've seen people go for takedowns in real fights though. Majority of the time they get either kneed in the head as they charge or punched in the back of the head. That's because they're not takedown/submission experts like a lot of MMA fighters are. Being trained in MMA does not make you immune to being hit in the head (or anywhere else, for that matter) by someone.
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Mar 19, 2011 12:07:12 GMT -5
That's because they're not takedown/submission experts like a lot of MMA fighters are. Being trained in MMA does not make you immune to being hit in the head (or anywhere else, for that matter) by someone. I think what he's saying is that MMA guys are trained to actually shoot for a takedown so they'll be much better at it whereas people who aren't trained probably won't get far. Remember that if you're throwing out all the rules then the MMA guys will be able to kick you in the groin just as easily as you can kick them so I really don't see how much would change.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2011 12:19:02 GMT -5
Being trained in MMA does not make you immune to being hit in the head (or anywhere else, for that matter) by someone. I think what he's saying is that MMA guys are trained to actually shoot for a takedown so they'll be much better at it whereas people who aren't trained probably won't get far. Remember that if you're throwing out all the rules then the MMA guys will be able to kick you in the groin just as easily as you can kick them so I really don't see how much would change. If you try to take someone down and make contact, unless you have extra arms to protect different parts of your body, you're risking getting hit, regardless of your training. Technique might give you better ability to successfully take someone down, but if you're getting your face smacked in by someone's fist before and after taking them down, will you be able to keep fighting them as effectively as if you had never gone for a takedown in the first place? That's true what you say about the relative change in fighting styles, but that's part of what devalues MMA fighters (or any other trained fighters, for that matter) in that situation. Their entire fighting style is based on a discipline with set rules. Throw out those rules and turn it into a brawl and they'll be fighting just like everyone else. What then makes all their training and discipline so special? It's like with knights at the end of the Middle Ages. They're this elite group of people who have a particular fighting style (ride in on horses, use couched lances and swords, and run over everything). When average schmos start using pike and shot, whoops. The knights no longer can actually use any of their famed training for anything. They too can use pike and shot, but when they're just reverting to fighting the same way as anyone else, what then makes them particularly noteworthy fighters over anyone else? That isn't to say that a trained individual should be assumed as being any less of a fighter than someone who isn't trained just because their training is less useful. Instead, it's that the playing field is much more even, and the advantage that they're famed for is largely irrelevant. They still have a reasonable chance of winning a legit fight, but it's not like they have overwhelming odds in their favor or anything.
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