BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
|
Post by BigWill on Feb 26, 2012 13:28:08 GMT -5
A spot's taken because it's the main event, no matter what. Guys like CM Punk could bust their ass all year, and even go into Mania with the title, and they still won't be considered the main event. Plus it's being promoted over an entire year, taking up time for other guys to potentially get over. It doesn't make the rest of the roster look very important when the WWE's talking like Roce/Cena is the only match really worth watching. Ignoring the business aspect of it, anyone who's not John Cena and wants to move up within the company should at least be a little annoyed by all this. Someone still has to explain to me how this is all The Rock's fault, and why we should be getting mad at him because WWE didn't bother to get someone lower on the card over. Guys are blaming The Rock for a decision that management made, which is to have put him in the main event of the show. If there was any real evidence that Rock forced his way in against Vince McMahon's wishes, then I'd see the point, but there isn't. And it just comes off as unnecessarily bitter and petty to trash The Rock for a decision that he didn't make. I'm sure Rock was all too happy to be in the main event of the show, in his hometown, but the fact is that unless Vince wanted it to happen, it wouldn't. And Rock vs. Cena was always going to be heavily promoted. They'd be idiots not to promote it. It's still one of the biggest, and freshest, matches in the last decade. Thing is, even with all the heavy advertising for this match, I've seen more new talent get pushed than I have when Rock wasn't around. It never took away from the pushes that guys like R-Truth, Zack Ryder, Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, or Cody Rhodes got. So I don't see how they've pushed the match at the expense of everyone else when plenty of people were elevated anyway. I'm not saying it's all Rock's fault. But I can see why people would be upset over Rock's return and and insertion into the main event. Whether or not the return was because or Rock or Vince McMahon doesn't really change anything. And people may have gotten pushed this year, but none of those pushes had anything to do with Rock's return. The question is, who else could have gotten pushed, how much harder could people have gotten pushed, and how would those pushed have been received if the Rock didn't return.
|
|
Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
|
Post by Krimzon on Feb 26, 2012 13:30:16 GMT -5
It would be different if Rock was just a movie star that they brought in to face Cena. He's not. The Rock did work for 7 years during the hottest period in wrestling history. He earned his spot for life. He only worked for 7 years, but he did more in those 7 years than most people would if they had 17. He put in crazy work and he's still reaping the benefits. If the people complaining accomplished what he did, they'd have a permanent spot too.
|
|
|
Post by Mayonnaise on Feb 26, 2012 13:31:08 GMT -5
Love how people are assuming that the Rock is going to a)deliver a huge buyrate when he didn't do much for Mania last year and did squat for SS and b) will raise others' checks just by being on the card when Vince himself hinted in his conference call that he's paying the Rock out the ass so there isn't much more to be passed around. He did a lot for Mania. He was still big at that time. Fast forward a few months and his novelty has worn off. So, He didn't do as much for SS but it was still an increase and was the best selling PPV of the last quarter of 2011. Again, for a PPV that was once knocked off the lineup and had horrible build up last year, it is not that bad. I dont see how any of that is bad. Also, where did Vince say he was "paying Rock out the ass." Because all I remember was that he said Rock was getting paid but was working off a handshake deal. I dont recall Vince saying Yeah Im paying Rock big bucks to come work !!1!. I dont think that is the case at all. What did Mania do, 100,000 more than the previous year? Doesn't seem like much to me for the biggest show of the year. As for the Vince comment, in the latest conference call discussing the 4th Quarter results, he said that the Survivor Series buys were indeed up but that talent related expenses were much higher making the change negligible. Seeing as how the only difference between that and a normal show was Rock, he cost shitton so there was no win with him as a part of it.
|
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,286
|
Post by The Ichi on Feb 26, 2012 13:38:28 GMT -5
It would be different if Rock was just a movie star that they brought in to face Cena. He's not. The Rock did work for 7 years during the hottest period in wrestling history. He earned his spot for life. He only worked for 7 years, but he did more in those 7 years than most people would if they had 17. He put in crazy work and he's still reaping the benefits. If the people complaining accomplished what he did, they'd have a permanent spot too. Exactly, he's done his time. And I'm sure come Wrestlemania he'll bump around all over the place. Should he have entered the Royal Rumble and Elimination Chamber (ruining the allure of Wrestlemania)? Would that have made some of you happy?
|
|
|
Post by wrestling4ever on Feb 26, 2012 13:38:44 GMT -5
He did a lot for Mania. He was still big at that time. Fast forward a few months and his novelty has worn off. So, He didn't do as much for SS but it was still an increase and was the best selling PPV of the last quarter of 2011. Again, for a PPV that was once knocked off the lineup and had horrible build up last year, it is not that bad. I dont see how any of that is bad. Also, where did Vince say he was "paying Rock out the ass." Because all I remember was that he said Rock was getting paid but was working off a handshake deal. I dont recall Vince saying Yeah Im paying Rock big bucks to come work !!1!. I dont think that is the case at all. What did Mania do, 100,000 more than the previous year? Doesn't seem like much to me for the biggest show of the year. As for the Vince comment, in the latest conference call discussing the 4th Quarter results, he said that the Survivor Series buys were indeed up but that talent related expenses were much higher making the change negligible. Seeing as how the only difference between that and a normal show was Rock, he cost s***ton so there was no win with him as a part of it. Thats an increase. 100,000 people is a lot in these days and times of low buy rates. Same applies to SS. An Increase is an increase. That doesn't really indicate that Rock got paid a mega amount for SS. Talent expenses were higher. Not just one guy. Its possible that WWE ups pay on bigger events. We really dont know what goes on as we do not work backstage and handle the finances.
|
|
Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
|
Post by Arrow on Feb 26, 2012 13:40:14 GMT -5
I'm not saying it's all Rock's fault. But I can see why people would be upset over Rock's return and and insertion into the main event. Whether or not the return was because or Rock or Vince McMahon doesn't really change anything. I don't blame anyone for being upset, but I do think they're taking their frustrations out on the wrong person. That's my problem, not that they're angry in the first place. Why should their issues with getting over and being in the main event of WrestleMania be The Rock's problem? He's not the one responsible for holding them back. Here's an example: let's say you get promoted at work over a guy who's been in the company longer than you and has worked just as hard, but you managed to accomplish more. Does the other guy have a right to be upset? Sure. Who should he be upset at is the question? Who should he be complaining about? The guy who promoted you, himself for not doing his job as well as you, or yourself? It's the same principle here. You said: This is what I dispute. The Rock vs. Cena match being promoted for a year didn't hurt anyone, as WWE pushed more people this year than they have when Rock wasn't around and this match wasn't on.
|
|
|
Post by Mayonnaise on Feb 26, 2012 13:42:57 GMT -5
What did Mania do, 100,000 more than the previous year? Doesn't seem like much to me for the biggest show of the year. As for the Vince comment, in the latest conference call discussing the 4th Quarter results, he said that the Survivor Series buys were indeed up but that talent related expenses were much higher making the change negligible. Seeing as how the only difference between that and a normal show was Rock, he cost s***ton so there was no win with him as a part of it. Thats an increase. 100,000 people is a lot in these days and times of low buy rates. Same applies to SS. An Increase is an increase. That doesn't really indicate that Rock got paid a mega amount for SS. Talent expenses were higher. Not just one guy. Its possible that WWE ups pay on bigger events. We really dont know what goes on as we do not work backstage and handle the finances. No, actually they don't "up pay for big events", contracts make sure of that. Vince made it painfully obvious in that call that Rock cost them more with outright throwing him under the bus. Again, I don't see someone bring in a normal up and down of a show as being responsible for a gain. It ignores too much to say WM was only up because of Rock and is damned unfair to the people who actually worked the show.
|
|
|
Post by Red Impact on Feb 26, 2012 13:45:50 GMT -5
Someone still has to explain to me how this is all The Rock's fault, and why we should be getting mad at him because WWE didn't bother to get someone lower on the card over. Guys are blaming The Rock for a decision that management made, which is to have put him in the main event of the show. If there was any real evidence that Rock forced his way in against Vince McMahon's wishes, then I'd see the point, but there isn't. And it just comes off as unnecessarily bitter and petty to trash The Rock for a decision that he didn't make. I'm sure Rock was all too happy to be in the main event of the show, in his hometown, but the fact is that unless Vince wanted it to happen, it wouldn't. And Rock vs. Cena was always going to be heavily promoted. They'd be idiots not to promote it. It's still one of the biggest, and freshest, matches in the last decade. Thing is, even with all the heavy advertising for this match, I've seen more new talent get pushed than I have when Rock wasn't around. It never took away from the pushes that guys like R-Truth, Zack Ryder, Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, or Cody Rhodes got. So I don't see how they've pushed the match at the expense of everyone else when plenty of people were elevated anyway. And people may have gotten pushed this year, but none of those pushes had anything to do with Rock's return. The question is, who else could have gotten pushed, how much harder could people have gotten pushed, and how would those pushed have been received if the Rock didn't return. Given that the vast majority of the time this year wasn't taken up on the Rock vs. Cena build, I find it really hard to buy into the argument that him coming back stopped anyone from being pushed who would have been.
|
|
|
Post by wrestling4ever on Feb 26, 2012 13:47:39 GMT -5
Thats an increase. 100,000 people is a lot in these days and times of low buy rates. Same applies to SS. An Increase is an increase. That doesn't really indicate that Rock got paid a mega amount for SS. Talent expenses were higher. Not just one guy. Its possible that WWE ups pay on bigger events. We really dont know what goes on as we do not work backstage and handle the finances. No, actually they don't "up pay for big events", contracts make sure of that. Vince made it painfully obvious in that call that Rock cost them more with outright throwing him under the bus. Again, I don't see someone bring in a normal up and down of a show as being responsible for a gain. It ignores too much to say WM was only up because of Rock and is damned unfair to the people who actually worked the show. Never know. And Im not saying its down to one guy. Im just saying that an increase is an increase. Rock was involved and Im sure he helped but he didn't do all of it. Just like he will be apart of those that helped this year.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2012 13:50:04 GMT -5
I'd rather see Dolph, Kofi & Wade earning their $$$ after years of hard work, Wade's been in WWE for 2 years during a down period with little competition. Rock was in it for 5 at the very peak of the business. Who's worked harder?
|
|
King Ghidorah
El Dandy
On Probation for Charges of two counts of Saxual Music.
How Absurd
Posts: 8,330
|
Post by King Ghidorah on Feb 26, 2012 14:03:07 GMT -5
I'd rather the rock not come back at all.
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on Feb 26, 2012 14:03:54 GMT -5
And the underlying thing that gets me, and this is just my opinion, but I feel quite strongly, is that all of these guys with their axes to grind, would absolutely do the same think if they could transition to a huge Hollywood star. John Cena stays and shows up. That's because you have the on screen charisma of a dead fish. CM Punk, Disney doesn't want to pay you $50 million to wear a tutu. The business. Rather Rock should be some broken down star like Flair or Hogan depending on a check, or have a bunch of injuries that will affect his quality of life like Austin. He should be really sorry that he didn't put the business, a business where they don't even insure you, a business with a list of injury and death that we all know is too long, a business where most people don't retire gracefully, ahead of his career.
|
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,286
|
Post by The Ichi on Feb 26, 2012 14:12:37 GMT -5
And the underlying thing that gets me, and this is just my opinion, but I feel quite strongly, is that all of these guys with their axes to grind, would absolutely do the same think if they could transition to a huge Hollywood star. John Cena stays and shows up. That's because you have the on screen charisma of a dead fish. CM Punk, Disney doesn't want to pay you $50 million to wear a tutu. The business. Rather Rock should be some broken down star like Flair or Hogan depending on a check, or have a bunch of injuries that will affect his quality of life like Austin. He should be really sorry that he didn't put the business, a business where they don't even insure you, a business with a list of injury and death that we all know is too long, a business where most people don't retire gracefully, ahead of his career. I dunno. I honestly believe that Punk would turn down being a movie star over a wrestler. Believe it or not, some people do want to do what they love over making lots of money.
|
|
Sc
Don Corleone
Must think of something witty to put here...
Posts: 1,417
|
Post by Sc on Feb 26, 2012 14:16:07 GMT -5
The Rock is supposed to be wrestling at WrestleMania 29 also. I hope these guys can get over their jealousy by then.
|
|
|
Post by molson5 on Feb 26, 2012 14:40:26 GMT -5
If these complains are real, they'd make a lot of sense if this was a t-ball league or girl scout troop, where the goal is everyone gets to participate and everyone wins, and you all go out for ice cream afterwards.
Val Venis can be a blowhard but he had a good point on this attitude when John Morrison got pissy about Snooki "taking Melina's spot". He said, it's not Melina's spot, its Vince's spot. They're all Vince's spots, and the company's spots. End of story.
|
|
|
Post by "I'm Batman..." on Feb 26, 2012 14:40:27 GMT -5
It's Wrestlemania, they have one of the biggest superstars returning.
I don't get the big deal.
|
|
|
Post by molson5 on Feb 26, 2012 14:43:30 GMT -5
And the underlying thing that gets me, and this is just my opinion, but I feel quite strongly, is that all of these guys with their axes to grind, would absolutely do the same think if they could transition to a huge Hollywood star. John Cena stays and shows up. That's because you have the on screen charisma of a dead fish. CM Punk, Disney doesn't want to pay you $50 million to wear a tutu. The business. Rather Rock should be some broken down star like Flair or Hogan depending on a check, or have a bunch of injuries that will affect his quality of life like Austin. He should be really sorry that he didn't put the business, a business where they don't even insure you, a business with a list of injury and death that we all know is too long, a business where most people don't retire gracefully, ahead of his career. I dunno. I honestly believe that Punk would turn down being a movie star over a wrestler. Believe it or not, some people do want to do what they love over making lots of money. Maybe he legitimately prefers WWE, but from what people say, ROH is the better "being a wrestler" experience, and he had no problem bailing out to that as fast as possible to go to a place everyone complains about being in .
|
|
|
Post by Been burned too many times on Feb 26, 2012 14:53:44 GMT -5
Lance Storm's comments:
and I agree. Just like Shaemus/Bryan being bumped off of WM27 but the Snookie/Trish 6 person match getting time and Cole/Lawler getting time.
Guys backstage might be mad at the Rock but shouldn't they be upset at the bookers/writers instead?
Think about the fact that Kid Rock got time at WM25 but many guys were left off the show. Things like that happen every year even at WM26 when Vince/Bret got time. Guys in the back don't complain about that but they do complain when a healthy Rock comes back to fight one of the biggest guys in wrestling today? A match that people have been hypothetically talking about for years this is the match you complain about?
|
|
BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
|
Post by BigWill on Feb 26, 2012 14:59:17 GMT -5
I dunno. I honestly believe that Punk would turn down being a movie star over a wrestler. Believe it or not, some people do want to do what they love over making lots of money. Maybe he legitimately prefers WWE, but from what people say, ROH is the better "being a wrestler" experience, and he had no problem bailing out to that as fast as possible to go to a place everyone complains about being in . Not really, because CM Punk wants to be considered "the best wrestler". And regardless of how well you do in ROH, you'll never be considered the best by the average wrestling fan if you stay there.
|
|
|
Post by molson5 on Feb 26, 2012 15:00:48 GMT -5
Should he have entered the Royal Rumble and Elimination Chamber (ruining the allure of Wrestlemania)? Would that have made some of you happy? If that "anonymous text" was real, it sounds like they want Rock to job to a bunch of midcarders in the weeks leading up to wrestlemania. To help out everybody else on the roster.
|
|