Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Sept 19, 2011 13:50:33 GMT -5
Even on RAW he was second to Cena, and last year he was probably outpopping him around this time.
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Post by mysterydriver on Sept 19, 2011 13:52:04 GMT -5
I would say it's more of the storyline that carried the match. It wouldn't have been nearly as good if it weren't for the great booking that led up to it. So, kind of like Hogan/Andre at WM3 except Andre laughed at the body slam attempt and squashed Hogan for the 1-2-3?
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Post by Balesirion on Sept 19, 2011 13:52:52 GMT -5
Yet the man is the most over superstar on Smackdown A brand that gets very little viewership. Not to mention, the guy second to him on the babyface totem pole, Sheamus, is only in his second year. So let's recap. Orton, a 9 year veteran, endorsed by Triple H himself, has managed to stay over on a second-rate show where his only competition for heat consists of midcarders and newbs. Impressive. So I suppose the many years when he's been the most over person on RAW magically never happened because you don't like him?
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Post by lockedontarget on Sept 19, 2011 13:52:53 GMT -5
I said it takes two to have a GREAT match. Henry vs. Orton wasn't a great match. Carry jobs only go so far. You can carry someone to a decent, watchable match. Beth has done it with Kelly, and Orton did it with Henry. But you don't get matches on the level of quality of say, Punk/Cena or Orton/Christian at Summerslam, with a carry job.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2011 13:52:53 GMT -5
People seem to confuse "I don't like his characer" with "he has no personality". Because Orton's character oozes from every pore. Tell me what Orton's character is.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Sept 19, 2011 13:53:41 GMT -5
I would say it's more of the storyline that carried the match. It wouldn't have been nearly as good if it weren't for the great booking that led up to it. You just described virtually every great match, ever.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2011 13:57:04 GMT -5
A brand that gets very little viewership. Not to mention, the guy second to him on the babyface totem pole, Sheamus, is only in his second year. So let's recap. Orton, a 9 year veteran, endorsed by Triple H himself, has managed to stay over on a second-rate show where his only competition for heat consists of midcarders and newbs. Impressive. So I suppose the many years when he's been the most over person on RAW magically never happened Yes, the magic of reality is very powerful. Orton was NEVER the most over person on Raw. Even if you don't count Cena (who was more popular than Orton at ANY POINT IN HIS CAREER) Jeff Hardy, Shawn Michaels, and Triple H were bigger than Orton over the last 5 years. And I hate Triple H, but during the spot just before he "retired", he was second only to Cena in terms of crowd love.
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Libertine
Unicron
Cerebral Caustic
Posts: 3,082
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Post by Libertine on Sept 19, 2011 13:58:55 GMT -5
It was a good match. Henry's promo at the end was well done. The best thing would be to let him have a long, devastating run and just maim all comers.
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Post by lockedontarget on Sept 19, 2011 13:59:00 GMT -5
People seem to confuse "I don't like his characer" with "he has no personality". Because Orton's character oozes from every pore. Tell me what Orton's character is. A violent psychotic who is constantly trying to stay calm and stable. A man who enjoys hurting people slowly and methodically, but is on the verge of snapping at any time. This isn't exactly a secret, his character is pretty well-defined so I get the feeling you either don't really watch much, or you're being deliberately obtuse. EDIT: Oh and Orton was as over as he is now directly prior to his move to Smackdown.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2011 14:01:57 GMT -5
Tell me what Orton's character is. A violent psychotic who is constantly trying to stay calm and stable. A man who enjoys hurting people slowly and methodically, but is on the verge of snapping at any time. Not a damn thing implies Orton is psychotic besides his theme song. That's been the case ever since he got it. Orton's slow, forced way of speaking has been the same since he turned heel back in 2005. He wasn't crazy then, and he ain't crazy now.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Sept 19, 2011 14:02:13 GMT -5
I would say it's more of the storyline that carried the match. It wouldn't have been nearly as good if it weren't for the great booking that led up to it. You just described virtually every great match, ever. How so? There have been countless great matches over the years that have had no build-up. Henry/Orton needed the storyline for that match to be considered good, but I could easily list a dozen matches off the top of my head that were **** quality that have had little to no build-up to them.
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Post by Zombo is back! Woo! Woo! Woo! on Sept 19, 2011 14:02:26 GMT -5
Tell me what Orton's character is. A violent psychotic who is constantly trying to stay calm and stable. A man who enjoys hurting people slowly and methodically, but is on the verge of snapping at any time. So an unintresting cheap rip-off of mankind? Cool.
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Sept 19, 2011 14:02:40 GMT -5
Orton had spazzed out enough times to be considered somewhat psychotic.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Sept 19, 2011 14:04:39 GMT -5
You just described virtually every great match, ever. How so? There have been countless great matches over the years that have had no build-up. Henry/Orton needed the storyline for that match to be considered good, but I could easily list a dozen matches off the top of my head that were **** quality that have had little to no build-up to them. And they don't have nearly the same impact or memorability as matches that are both great in execution and in context, like HBK v. Undertaker.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Sept 19, 2011 14:04:57 GMT -5
Orton had spazzed out enough times to be considered somewhat psychotic. Not to mention he RKO's and punts people in the head with little to no reason.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Sept 19, 2011 14:07:14 GMT -5
Give me one great match Orton has been in where he wasn't carried. His matches with Rob Van Dam were always great, and I think we can all agree that RVD never carried a damned person in his entire career. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't even know how.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2011 14:07:32 GMT -5
Orton had spazzed out enough times to be considered somewhat psychotic. Wrestlers ALWAYS do that kind of stuff though. Performing random acts of violence is pretty much par for the course in American wrestling ever since Attitude. I know the old saying is to "never go full retard", but if Orton wants to be crazy, he needs to BE CRAZY.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Sept 19, 2011 14:09:19 GMT -5
How so? There have been countless great matches over the years that have had no build-up. Henry/Orton needed the storyline for that match to be considered good, but I could easily list a dozen matches off the top of my head that were **** quality that have had little to no build-up to them. And they don't have nearly the same impact or memorability as matches that are both great in execution and in context, like HBK v. Undertaker. Not being memorable is not the same as having a bad match. HBK/Taker could have had a match any day of the week, and while they wouldn't have been as epic as their match at Mania, it still would have been good. If they had Orton vs. Henry on some random episode of Raw last year, not only would it have been unmemorable, it would have been bad.
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HBL
Unicron
This is what yoga does to you.
Posts: 3,196
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Post by HBL on Sept 19, 2011 14:09:32 GMT -5
I freaking told you! There was no way they would give the match to Orton after that much of a build up.Marked so hard for Mark.
Yes people,Mark for Mark!
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Post by lockedontarget on Sept 19, 2011 14:12:13 GMT -5
A violent psychotic who is constantly trying to stay calm and stable. A man who enjoys hurting people slowly and methodically, but is on the verge of snapping at any time. Not a damn thing implies Orton is psychotic besides his theme song. That's been the case ever since he got it. Sorry, but no. Aside from the several storylines that have directly involved it, it comes across in his ring work. His matches always begin with him methodically picking apart his opponent, and then breaking down and becoming both more violent and more wreckless. His facial expressions and body language go from "silent, stalking predator" to "nutjob". His character is right there in his ring work, and if you can't see it you must be pretty bad at picking up in-ring storytelling. The entire psychology behind the punt is based around how his character goes from trying to win to trying to hurt. He often loses matches due to not being able to keep himself in check, like at MITB this year. His character is there in the matches, it's in the booking, and it's in the storylines. Just because you choose to ignore it doesn't mean it's not there.
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