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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on Feb 7, 2013 0:22:04 GMT -5
I guess when all your core needs are met and previous generations did the grunt work for combating actual racism, sexism and all the other -isms that resulted in actual death and legal discrimination, you gotta start speaking in hyperbole over s*** that doesn't actually matter...like theme parties with purposely over-the-top themes. Well, for one thing, I don't think you need to have your core needs to be completely met to be offended by the party. I'm sure there are many lower to middle class people that think the party is disgusting. I also think that the people who did the grunt work would find parties like this to be a sad reminder of the very things they fought hard against. I'm half asian and I don't particularly care about the party. I think it's sad but it's not directly effecting my life. Still, it does make me shake my head. It doesn't destroy my faith in mankind and I'm not calling for the heads of anybody. I think you have the right to throw parties like this since you aren't directly hurting anyone but I think I reserve the right to think "f*** you, you bunch of racists." I can respect that. It is indeed in bad taste, as I said. I look at it like this. Hopefully this explains myself better: I doubt anyone who attended that ridiculous party is actually racist. They're young and educated; while it's definitely possible, younger people in general are far different than the younger people of previous generations, due to cultural integration removed from prior hatred and finding acceptance because of the brave people who fought for equality. So if they're going to make themselves into caricatures of silly stereotypes that have no longer have malice behind them, with no ill intentions of treating people as inferiors, then its context changes everything. In fact, I'd go as far to say that if we can make light of other's cultural differences without having even a hint of actual hatred while doing it, that is actually a positive for race relations. It's almost like making fun of our ancestors for mocking others with hate, and in that way, it actually takes the power away from those stereotypes.
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Toxik916
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Post by Toxik916 on Feb 7, 2013 0:27:32 GMT -5
Well, for one thing, I don't think you need to have your core needs to be completely met to be offended by the party. I'm sure there are many lower to middle class people that think the party is disgusting. I also think that the people who did the grunt work would find parties like this to be a sad reminder of the very things they fought hard against. I'm half asian and I don't particularly care about the party. I think it's sad but it's not directly effecting my life. Still, it does make me shake my head. It doesn't destroy my faith in mankind and I'm not calling for the heads of anybody. I think you have the right to throw parties like this since you aren't directly hurting anyone but I think I reserve the right to think "f*** you, you bunch of racists." I can respect that. It is indeed in bad taste, as I said. I look at it like this. Hopefully this explains myself better: I doubt anyone who attended that ridiculous party is actually racist. They're young and educated; while it's definitely possible, younger people in general are far different than the younger people of previous generations, due to cultural integration removed from prior hatred and finding acceptance because of the brave people who fought for equality. So if they're going to make themselves into caricatures of silly stereotypes that have no longer have malice behind them, with no ill intentions of treating people as inferiors, then its context changes everything. In fact, I'd go as far to say that if we can make light of other's cultural differences without having even a hint of actual hatred while doing it, that is actually a positive for race relations. It's almost like making fun of our ancestors for mocking others with hate, and in that way, it actually takes the power away from those stereotypes. Bingo! If everyone could learn to laugh together and quit getting so irritated over bullshit life would be one big party. I notice mainly white people get up in arms over race issues when most of the minorities they defend really don't give a shit about a joke.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2013 0:43:46 GMT -5
Here's the thing about jokes and tolerance, as I see it.
I've had racially, religiously, sexually, etc. diverse groups of friends in the past. We'd joke about a lot of things and racial humor, as well as religious based and sexuality based humor, came up frequently. The implicit idea was that we respected each other, that we never took it too far, and that we'd rag on each other about anything because that's what friends, at least in our group, do.
That was with my friends though and I knew the intent. Asians aren't being represented at the party; you don't hear about the fraternity's Asian members laughing it up or going tit-for-tat and dressing as Caucasians, African Americans, etc. that are part of the fraternity. You also don't hear about the Asian group on campus throwing similar parties. It seems to be one group doing one thing in a vacuum.
If I was a group on campus that represented the race or ethnicity or sexual orientation or religion, etc. that was being lampooned, even in a light hearted way, I think I would be obliged to get the full story. The Asian group did and the fraternity changed in accordance. So, while it'll probably be awkward for a bit, I think you have to say fair is fair and let it drop. If it continues, I think people then have the right to sit down and talk about the issue in a mature manner and reach an understanding.
Honestly, the biggest concern I would have is if the school authorities didn't do anything and it was later found out that funding for groups are skewed due to race and all sorts of issues that could exist underneath the surface. But that's not something that appears to have come to light because of the story.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 7, 2013 0:49:55 GMT -5
I can respect that. It is indeed in bad taste, as I said. I look at it like this. Hopefully this explains myself better: I doubt anyone who attended that ridiculous party is actually racist. They're young and educated; while it's definitely possible, younger people in general are far different than the younger people of previous generations, due to cultural integration removed from prior hatred and finding acceptance because of the brave people who fought for equality. So if they're going to make themselves into caricatures of silly stereotypes that have no longer have malice behind them, with no ill intentions of treating people as inferiors, then its context changes everything. In fact, I'd go as far to say that if we can make light of other's cultural differences without having even a hint of actual hatred while doing it, that is actually a positive for race relations. It's almost like making fun of our ancestors for mocking others with hate, and in that way, it actually takes the power away from those stereotypes. Bingo! If everyone could learn to laugh together and quit getting so irritated over bulls*** life would be one big party. I notice mainly white people get up in arms over race issues when most of the minorities they defend really don't give a s*** about a joke. Considering the people protesting this are an Asian student organization that thinks this party is being derogatory towards their people and culture, this isn't the case at all. Like, imagine if white kids had a party in blackface and the invitation used a lot of ebonics with promises of fried chicken and watermelon. Would that be not racist even though they, say, didn't use the n-word?
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Dat Dude
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Dat Dude on Feb 7, 2013 0:56:13 GMT -5
As a person of color, one the of the most frustrating things that comes up in these conversations is the "progressive" thinking of "as long as if the intent of malice is absent, it's okay" to excuse things like this. Racism isn't (for a lack of better words) so black and white. Racism can be unintentional. When folks do things like this, it dehumanizes the group of people and insults the dignity of them, their family, and everyone else of the same kin. That's not something you "lighten up" about. It's matter of decency.
And let's not kid ourselves here, these kids didn't do this out of an attempt to unify people through self deprecation, it was mockery of others that they thought they could keep behind closed doors.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Posts: 27,959
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Post by chazraps on Feb 7, 2013 1:01:12 GMT -5
I can respect that. It is indeed in bad taste, as I said. I look at it like this. Hopefully this explains myself better: I doubt anyone who attended that ridiculous party is actually racist. They're young and educated; while it's definitely possible, younger people in general are far different than the younger people of previous generations, due to cultural integration removed from prior hatred and finding acceptance because of the brave people who fought for equality. So if they're going to make themselves into caricatures of silly stereotypes that have no longer have malice behind them, with no ill intentions of treating people as inferiors, then its context changes everything. In fact, I'd go as far to say that if we can make light of other's cultural differences without having even a hint of actual hatred while doing it, that is actually a positive for race relations. It's almost like making fun of our ancestors for mocking others with hate, and in that way, it actually takes the power away from those stereotypes. Bingo! If everyone could learn to laugh together and quit getting so irritated over bulls*** life would be one big party. I notice mainly white people get up in arms over race issues when most of the minorities they defend really don't give a s*** about a joke. No, it's precisely the Asian student group at the college who are trying to draw attention to this and make it a more visible issue. If a bunch of white people are mocking Asians without any Asians present, and then a mountain of evidence comes out of them being very publicly disrespectful towards Asians with no Asian input whatsoever... ...are you really going to blame the Asians themselves for being offended? Those stereotypes weren't the party-thrower's to mock. If they're educated enough to get into Duke, they undoubtably have to know what a tremendous act of disrespect putting on yellow-face and mocking several Asian cultures is. If you're going to use stereotypes to mock the idea of racism, that's one thing. That's an actual constructive use of caricatures with the potential to be actually progressive if handled properly. This is a bunch of white kids knowingly mocking several Asian cultures for the sole purpose of laughing at Asians. It's a minstrel show without the stage.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 7, 2013 1:05:10 GMT -5
Yeah, there's a big difference between racial humor between friends of different ethnicities and a group of white people making jokes at the expense of other races. The former has a level of consent while the latter has a complete lack of it. It's dehumanizing and I'm pretty sure the people saying "lighten up" haven't been on the receiving end of this sorta thing.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Feb 7, 2013 1:06:37 GMT -5
Bingo! If everyone could learn to laugh together and quit getting so irritated over bulls*** life would be one big party. I notice mainly white people get up in arms over race issues when most of the minorities they defend really don't give a s*** about a joke. Considering the people protesting this are an Asian student organization that thinks this party is being derogatory towards their people and culture, this isn't the case at all. Like, imagine if white kids had a party in blackface and the invitation used a lot of ebonics with promises of fried chicken and watermelon. Would that be not racist even though they, say, didn't use the n-word?...which actually exists: www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/outrage-over-texas-college-mlk-party
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Post by Cyno on Feb 7, 2013 1:11:51 GMT -5
Goddamn it, chaz. Stop lowering my faith in humanity by taking my ridiculous hypothetical situations and finding real examples of them!
And while I'm not a person of color, I am Jewish. I know what it's like to be the minority without privilege in given situations. I have been on the receiving end of some "hilarious" Jew jokes that were really f***ing offensive without the teller really knowing it. I've also been subjected to my fair share of racism despite Judaism not actually being a race. But that doesn't stop some people from thinking so!
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Toxik916
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Post by Toxik916 on Feb 7, 2013 1:13:52 GMT -5
I just don't see how this is racist. For something to be racist doesn't there have to be hate behind it?
Maybe it's different in other parts of the country, but up here people seem to laugh together and all hangout as one big group. I just don't see racism in California especially in Sacramento which was named the most diverse city in the country by Time Magazine.
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Post by Danimal on Feb 7, 2013 1:14:11 GMT -5
More of why GDI's have reason to not go Greek and actually aren't " just jealous because they didn't get a bid". Not saying all Greeks fit the stereotype by any means but enough do that I had no interest.
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Rican
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Post by Rican on Feb 7, 2013 1:15:30 GMT -5
Stuff like this happens pretty frequently on college campuses. Often (but not always) fraternities and sororities are the ones doing it and they make fun of different races. I've heard of those blackface parties Chaz is referring to. It's messed up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2013 1:18:42 GMT -5
I just don't see how this is racist. For something to be racist doesn't there have to be hate behind it? Maybe it's different in other parts of the country, but up here people seem to laugh together and all hangout as one big group. I just don't see racism in California especially in Sacramento which was named the most diverse city in the country by Time Magazine. You said everyone hangs out together as one big group in your community. This is the exact opposite of that.
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Toxik916
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Post by Toxik916 on Feb 7, 2013 1:20:34 GMT -5
I've been to a few of those "black-faced" parties and I had a blast. The black people I was kicking it with at the party thought the theme was hilarious.
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Toxik916
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Post by Toxik916 on Feb 7, 2013 1:22:50 GMT -5
I just don't see how this is racist. For something to be racist doesn't there have to be hate behind it? Maybe it's different in other parts of the country, but up here people seem to laugh together and all hangout as one big group. I just don't see racism in California especially in Sacramento which was named the most diverse city in the country by Time Magazine. You said everyone hangs out together as one big group in your community. This is the exact opposite of that. Were the asians not invited? I'm pretty sure there were some asians present. I really doubt the whole party was nothing but white people.
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Sektor
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Post by Sektor on Feb 7, 2013 1:23:23 GMT -5
I just don't see how this is racist. For something to be racist doesn't there have to be hate behind it? Maybe it's different in other parts of the country, but up here people seem to laugh together and all hangout as one big group. I just don't see racism in California especially in Sacramento which was named the most diverse city in the country by Time Magazine. You said everyone hangs out together as one big group in your community. This is the exact opposite of that. But that doesn't make this racism. Is it offensive? Clearly, since someone was offended (and someone who had a reason to be, for once). But no one was discriminated against, no one was personally demeaned or shamed or attacked. Accusing someone of being a racist is a damn big deal, and everyone is a little too quick to throw that word out whenever they see something even slightly offensive. Just a little bit of semantics, I still say this was just a ridiculous party thrown by idiots.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2013 1:24:04 GMT -5
I've been to a few of those "black-faced" parties and I had a blast. The black people I was kicking it with at the party thought the theme was hilarious. Right but those are only some people. Other black people might not feel that way. That doesn't make it less racist. Also and I'm not going to say that you were right or wrong but you keep talking about whether something is or isn't racist. Everyone can have their own opinion about it but it's not like there is some universal standard about whether or not something is racist. It's opinion based. There isn't a consensus, so you or me or anyone else can't say "This is racist but that isn't".
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Dat Dude
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Dat Dude on Feb 7, 2013 1:24:37 GMT -5
I just don't see how this is racist. For something to be racist doesn't there have to be hate behind it? Nope If you judge, generalize, mock etc. a person (or people) based purely on their race regardless if you hate that race or not...
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Feb 7, 2013 1:28:10 GMT -5
You said everyone hangs out together as one big group in your community. This is the exact opposite of that. But that doesn't make this racism. Is it offensive? Clearly, since someone was offended (and someone who had a reason to be, for once). But no one was discriminated against, no one was personally demeaned or shamed or attacked. Accusing someone of being a racist is a damn big deal, and everyone is a little too quick to throw that word out whenever they see something even slightly offensive. Just a little bit of semantics, I still say this was just a ridiculous party thrown by idiots. Nope, it's racist. See Rehab's post.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Feb 7, 2013 1:30:50 GMT -5
You said everyone hangs out together as one big group in your community. This is the exact opposite of that. Were the asians not invited? I'm pretty sure there were some asians present. I really doubt the whole party was nothing but white people. What's there not to doubt? It's precisely a big deal because the party WAS all white people. There's overwhelming photographic evidence. Plus, if it really was the Asian student body have fun with it themselves, there wouldn't be an Asian student group protesting it.
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