Sektor
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Post by Sektor on Feb 7, 2013 17:03:35 GMT -5
This isn't racist it's just people having fun mimicking a perceived culture. . So...racism, then. So then everyone who celebrates St. Patty's Day by drinking is a racist since they're mimicking a perceived culture? Because that was the other part of the post and this would, in fact, make me a racist. It seems like we're in two camps here. The people who believe that anything that's even slightly racially offensive is racism, and the people who believe that they're has to be some sort of discrimination or actual harming of people physically, psychologically or socially for it to be racism. I'm in the latter, since I think people should distinguish between racism and something offensive, instead of immediately going for the most powerful word available.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2013 17:10:33 GMT -5
Yea man, those black people you talked to definitely spoke for the entire race. If those guys had no problem with it, then it is definitely not racist. Seriously guys, racism is more nuanced than burning crosses in lawns. I didn't say that, but on the other side of the coin one person or group of people that are offended by parties like these don't speak for their entire race either. How is having a party negatively affecting the lives of the ones that are offended? This isn't racist it's just people having fun mimicking a perceived culture. This really is no different from people wearing green and getting s***ty drunk for St. Patty's day or wearing a sombrero on Cinco De Mayo. You're thinking of discrimination, not racism.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Feb 7, 2013 17:13:12 GMT -5
Racists: the newest marginalized social group of the twenty-first century.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Feb 7, 2013 17:15:58 GMT -5
Racists: the newest marginalized social group of the twenty-first century. Slack jawed, insensitive, racist, xenophobic frat boy dopes have rights too!
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Feb 7, 2013 17:16:18 GMT -5
The idea of a party themed after a culture isn't bad at all. What's bad is the invite. But even then, it's like...whatever? I honestly don't think this was done out of malice or anything, so...
Though seriously, would it kill to write a slightly more rational invite?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2013 17:20:41 GMT -5
So then everyone who celebrates St. Patty's Day by drinking is a racist since they're mimicking a perceived culture? Because that was the other part of the post and this would, in fact, make me a racist. It seems like we're in two camps here. The people who believe that anything that's even slightly racially offensive is racism, and the people who believe that they're has to be some sort of discrimination or actual harming of people physically, psychologically or socially for it to be racism. I'm in the latter, since I think people should distinguish between racism and something offensive, instead of immediately going for the most powerful word available. You mean, people who understand the definition of racism and those who don't? haha ;D Look - is the party racist ? Of course. A blind man could see that. Is it discriminatory or harmful to Asians? A million times NO. Honestly - its not even that offensive to me & I'm half-Chinese, but its still most definitely racist. You can mock, deride, unfavorably mimic any race and that doesn't mean you're discriminating against them - it just means you're being racist.
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Sektor
Unicron
The OTHER Big Red Machine.
Posts: 2,808
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Post by Sektor on Feb 7, 2013 17:28:30 GMT -5
So then everyone who celebrates St. Patty's Day by drinking is a racist since they're mimicking a perceived culture? Because that was the other part of the post and this would, in fact, make me a racist. It seems like we're in two camps here. The people who believe that anything that's even slightly racially offensive is racism, and the people who believe that they're has to be some sort of discrimination or actual harming of people physically, psychologically or socially for it to be racism. I'm in the latter, since I think people should distinguish between racism and something offensive, instead of immediately going for the most powerful word available. You mean, people who understand the definition of racism and those who don't? haha ;D Look - is the party racist ? Of course. A blind man could see that. Is it discriminatory or harmful to Asians? A million times NO. You can mock, deride, unfavorably mimic any race and that doesn't mean you're discriminating against them - it just means you're being racist. Discrimination IS racism. Taking away rights based on someones race. Merely offending someone isn't racism. Dave Chappelle did White People impressions all the time, I didn't get up in arms and call him a filthy racist because he was using stereotypes as props. I've conceded that the party is monumentally stupid, but unless the college group is INCREDIBLY(!!!) thin-skinned, this didn't hurt anyone. In fact, it didn't even come close. That's the difference between actual racism and just offensive. It's both a sign of the progress we've made as a country and the massive rise of political correctness that something this trivial is considered evil racism. And that kind of response is exactly what I'm talking about, once you mention racism, everyone turns their opinion up to eleven. I feel this threads gone as far as it can without going up in flames.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2013 17:35:21 GMT -5
They're a bunch of dumb college kids having their drunk orgy. Racism or not, I think they should all get kicked out of the school.
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Toxik916
Hank Scorpio
Sacramento Proud
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Post by Toxik916 on Feb 7, 2013 17:42:36 GMT -5
They're a bunch of dumb college kids having their drunk orgy. Racism or not, I think they should all get kicked out of the school. Where did it say drunk orgy?
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sryans
Don Corleone
BROOKLYN, BROOKLYN
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Post by sryans on Feb 7, 2013 17:48:36 GMT -5
So then everyone who celebrates St. Patty's Day by drinking is a racist since they're mimicking a perceived culture? Because that was the other part of the post and this would, in fact, make me a racist. It seems like we're in two camps here. The people who believe that anything that's even slightly racially offensive is racism, and the people who believe that they're has to be some sort of discrimination or actual harming of people physically, psychologically or socially for it to be racism. I'm in the latter, since I think people should distinguish between racism and something offensive, instead of immediately going for the most powerful word available. No it is not the same thing. The Irish are not really a marginalized racial group in this country. Do you guys not see the harm in dehumanizing other races of people? For real?
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Feb 7, 2013 17:52:14 GMT -5
You mean, people who understand the definition of racism and those who don't? haha ;D Look - is the party racist ? Of course. A blind man could see that. Is it discriminatory or harmful to Asians? A million times NO. You can mock, deride, unfavorably mimic any race and that doesn't mean you're discriminating against them - it just means you're being racist. Discrimination IS racism. Taking away rights based on someones race. Merely offending someone isn't racism. Dave Chappelle did White People impressions all the time, I didn't get up in arms and call him a filthy racist because he was using stereotypes as props. I've conceded that the party is monumentally stupid, but unless the college group is INCREDIBLY(!!!) thin-skinned, this didn't hurt anyone. In fact, it didn't even come close. That's the difference between actual racism and just offensive. It's both a sign of the progress we've made as a country and the massive rise of political correctness that something this trivial is considered evil racism. And that kind of response is exactly what I'm talking about, once you mention racism, everyone turns their opinion up to eleven. I feel this threads gone as far as it can without going up in flames. You're dead wrong in drawing any sort of parallel between Chappelle and the Asian Party. The point of Chappelle putting on white face or sending up ideas of "the white man" boogeyman was to mock racism and racists, as well as the idea of stereotypes as a whole. Not to mention a black man making fun of white racists is COMPLETELY different than an entirely white frat mocking a variety of Asian cultures for the sole purpose of laughing at them. That Asian Party, and race-themed stereotype-invoking parties as a whole is absurdly disrespectful and letting such events fly is effectively stating it's OK to completely dehumanize another group of people for the sole purpose of laughing at them because whoever is throwing the parties is entitled to just because they're different. That stark mental divide (of which is evident in the invite and photographs) is the very definition of racism. You DON'T drink on St. Patrick's Day because it's an Irish stereotype (which is pretty racist to suggest). You drink on St. Patrick's Day as partaking (And effectively celebrating) the tradition of St. Patrick/innkeeper/banishing the devil/generosity legend. Sombreros are worn on Cinco de Mayo because, to celebrate the upset victory over the French at the Battle of Puebla. It's a day that celebrates their culture (but it's NOT their Independence day, which is in September). Sombreros are a uniquely Mexican invention, so wearing one and drinking heavily is distinctly celebrating a part of that victory. There is a HUGE difference between those days, and throwing a random "Asian Party" asking a bunch of white people to dress as Asian stereotypes just to laugh at Asians. If you don't see such an event as being harmful psychologically and socially, you might need to reevaluate how you respect others.
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Toxik916
Hank Scorpio
Sacramento Proud
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Post by Toxik916 on Feb 7, 2013 17:52:55 GMT -5
How is wearing garments of clothing associated with a certain race dehumanizing?
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Feb 7, 2013 17:58:00 GMT -5
How is wearing garments of clothing associated with a certain race dehumanizing? You're reaching. Read the invite. Look at the photos. When you're wearing certain clothes solely to mock a race of people, you're implying they're beneath you and OK to ridicule. That's dehumanizing.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Feb 7, 2013 18:00:10 GMT -5
One thing I feel is worth bringing up is that the idea of mocking a stereotype doesn't really harm anyone. The issue is that the invite makes it preeeetty hard to think that was their intention.
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Toxik916
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Post by Toxik916 on Feb 7, 2013 18:05:34 GMT -5
Really? Do people really believe that a theme party is thrown to show that you're somehow better than the group you're emulating? That's thinking way too hard about the situation. It is just a party, it has nothing to do with one group of people trying to assert their dominance over a "lesser" group of people.
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Sektor
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Post by Sektor on Feb 7, 2013 18:06:28 GMT -5
Chaz, I really appreciate that you're actually responding to what I'm saying with facts, but I think that that's a very absolutist view of this. And a view that's based on a lot of assumptions, the chief one being that the backbone of this party was to laugh at Asians, and not the ridiculousness of White people dressed as Asian stereotypes.
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Dat Dude
Dennis Stamp
Wait, what?
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Post by Dat Dude on Feb 7, 2013 18:11:26 GMT -5
You mean, people who understand the definition of racism and those who don't? haha ;D Look - is the party racist ? Of course. A blind man could see that. Is it discriminatory or harmful to Asians? A million times NO. You can mock, deride, unfavorably mimic any race and that doesn't mean you're discriminating against them - it just means you're being racist. Discrimination IS racism. Taking away rights based on someones race. Merely offending someone isn't racism. Dave Chappelle did White People impressions all the time, I didn't get up in arms and call him a filthy racist because he was using stereotypes as props. I've conceded that the party is monumentally stupid, but unless the college group is INCREDIBLY(!!!) thin-skinned, this didn't hurt anyone. In fact, it didn't even come close. That's the difference between actual racism and just offensive. It's both a sign of the progress we've made as a country and the massive rise of political correctness that something this trivial is considered evil racism. And that kind of response is exactly what I'm talking about, once you mention racism, everyone turns their opinion up to eleven. I feel this threads gone as far as it can without going up in flames. I believe what your describing is someone being a bigot. Racism and bigotry can tie-in together but are not mutually exclusive. As I said before, judging or generalizing a person (or people) based purely on their race is being racist. ACTING on that belief as a means to intentionally discriminate or harm those people is being a bigot. There's a difference. It's human nature to generalize things in life as a defense mechanism and that includes races of people. Racism is internal, it's a way of thinking. Instead of taking the time to look at people on a case on case basis, racism is lazily generalizing folks with perceived "facts" that apply to all. People of all walks of life (if not careful) can find themselves fall into that line of thinking. So saying a person acts or thinks racist does not always equal to them saying that person is a card carrying member of the KKK.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2013 18:21:52 GMT -5
You mean, people who understand the definition of racism and those who don't? haha ;D Look - is the party racist ? Of course. A blind man could see that. Is it discriminatory or harmful to Asians? A million times NO. You can mock, deride, unfavorably mimic any race and that doesn't mean you're discriminating against them - it just means you're being racist. Discrimination IS racism. Taking away rights based on someones race. Merely offending someone isn't racism. Dave Chappelle did White People impressions all the time, I didn't get up in arms and call him a filthy racist because he was using stereotypes as props. I've conceded that the party is monumentally stupid, but unless the college group is INCREDIBLY(!!!) thin-skinned, this didn't hurt anyone. In fact, it didn't even come close. That's the difference between actual racism and just offensive. It's both a sign of the progress we've made as a country and the massive rise of political correctness that something this trivial is considered evil racism. And that kind of response is exactly what I'm talking about, once you mention racism, everyone turns their opinion up to eleven. I feel this threads gone as far as it can without going up in flames. haha, no. Racism is a belief that can be expressed through discrimination. Just because something is racist doesn't mean it is automatically discriminatory. In this case - the action of the party planners/goers was pretty racist, but not discriminatory.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2013 18:29:53 GMT -5
Really? Do people really believe that a theme party is thrown to show that you're somehow better than the group you're emulating? That's thinking way too hard about the situation. It is just a party, it has nothing to do with one group of people trying to assert their dominance over a "lesser" group of people. In a way - it kind of is. I didn't find the party offense personally, but it's pretty obvious they weren't just throwing a "theme party." It was clear they were openly mocking another culture. If they were just having an "international night" were they featured Asian cooking/dress etc - that's one thing, but to put stuff like, "Herro" and "Chank You" (which is like 1950's style racist remarks btw - Update your racism KappaSig!) is pretty transparent. That being said - I don't think suspension or whatever is necessary. People get racist - it happens. Maybe give them some awareness training so they know how to act in the future and help prepare them for operating in a more diverse world later on (like for future jobs and stuff), but other than that its not that big of a deal.
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Sektor
Unicron
The OTHER Big Red Machine.
Posts: 2,808
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Post by Sektor on Feb 7, 2013 18:32:10 GMT -5
Discrimination IS racism. Taking away rights based on someones race. Merely offending someone isn't racism. Dave Chappelle did White People impressions all the time, I didn't get up in arms and call him a filthy racist because he was using stereotypes as props. I've conceded that the party is monumentally stupid, but unless the college group is INCREDIBLY(!!!) thin-skinned, this didn't hurt anyone. In fact, it didn't even come close. That's the difference between actual racism and just offensive. It's both a sign of the progress we've made as a country and the massive rise of political correctness that something this trivial is considered evil racism. And that kind of response is exactly what I'm talking about, once you mention racism, everyone turns their opinion up to eleven. I feel this threads gone as far as it can without going up in flames. haha, no. Racism is a belief that can be expressed through discrimination. Just because something is racist doesn't mean it is automatically discriminatory. In this case - the action of the party planners/goers was pretty racist, but not discriminatory. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racismWords actually can have multiple meanings. But if this thread demonstrates anything, there isn't an agreed upon definition for racism.
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