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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jun 11, 2013 17:38:44 GMT -5
Is it ever possible to run a successful indy promotion which runs monthly shows without ever booking a "name" star?
Yeah. I didn't bring in a name until almost a full year of running. You just need lots of help. If you're the only person that holds stake in the show doing well you're going to have trouble. Where are you from if you don't mint me asking?
Run a FAMILY FRIENDLY show. Kids like wrestling. I used to charge $5 kids tickets! It's a cheap night out for most people. Plus, then you can sell to EVERYONE not just people who like blood or swearing. I had no swearing on my shows. I hung signs up EVERY show.
Think about it, four kids will cost somebody $20. Then they pay $10 for themsleves. Then kids will bring friends. I had parent buy a whole row for birthday parties. Plus, that is four more people in your audience if you're taping something for the internet. You want people to feel like they NEED to be there. Plus, kids go crazy! They cheer! They boo! They react to a chair shot still!
Plus, kids expect less. A kid will have a great time as long as you time your show well.
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SOR
Unicron
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Post by SOR on Jun 11, 2013 23:58:03 GMT -5
If I can add something here (Not to overtake Chairman's thread)
I feel a lot of wrestling promotions don't run like a business. They'll just buy/hire a ring set it up and try and make money just off the gate. This should definitely be your bread and butter but I think promoters (Or people looking to promote a card some day) should also offer this.
- Vendor Space. People are ALWAYS looking to get a product out there. If you draw 150-200 locals a show and it's proven you can do ohat why not sell vending space? It could be a local sports or wrestling store, supplement stores, people wanting to advertise local classes for kids (Martial Arts, Sports etc) if you charged just 25 bucks (Which I think is fair) and you had even just 4 vendors that's another hundred in your pocket right there for doing nothing except letting them shill to your customers
- Seminars. So many names come to a local indy and just work, so many local wrestlers want to learn from a name but there's not very often that option. Most names would probably host a seminar for free if you cut them in say 50%. Maybe you charge 50 bucks for this and you walk away with 25 bucks in your pocket. Your local talent is happy, other unbooked local talent is happy, your names happy cause he's probably pocketed another 300-400 bucks and you're making that bottom line even larger and you haven't even ran the show yet.
- Autograph session with your "name" talent. Another important one people often miss out on. Odds are if your name is big enough people are going to pay money for the chance to meet them. 5 bucks or so is nothing to these people coming in if it's someone they're a fan of. Once they're in you have your merchandise table set up you're selling Posters, Pictures, Toys whatever you can find. Anything you don't sell, have the name sign it and eBay it or sell it at future shows. Stock might stick around for a little but you're making money off that name for a little while regardless.
- Merchandise. Again it's very rare to see a great merchandise booth at an indy show usually it's a company T-Shirt and an event poster. You want to sell anything you can. I'd personally have 1 booth specific for your company/wrestlers and then another booth elsewhere. You fill your other booth with WWE, TNA, ROH, WCW, ECW and any other companies stuff. You charge just under retail for this but in reality you're probably picking the stuff up for a few bucks on eBay or at the local Flea Markets. This way if a little kid doesn't like your company merchandise odds are he'll buy something from the WWE or TNA or whatever. That option puts more money in your pocket.
- Food and Drink. This is one that I've seen once in all of the indy shows I've attended ever. You're in this hot disgusting hall with no A/C what do you want most? A drink. You don't want to walk 5 minutes to a local store and maybe miss some of the action so why not sell drinks there? A case of Pepsi in Australia is about 18 bucks you get 24 Cans in there. At your show maybe you charge 2 dollars each. Do the maths, you're spending 18 dollars and making a 48 dollar return. This all adds up especially if you're drawing big numbers because at least half the audience probably will buy something.
As for food, same reason as above really. People don't want to leave, go to the store, wait for their food to be cooked and walk back. They want it right there and then. Why not offer hot dogs or hamburgers right there cooked in front of you? Charge 3-4 dollars each and you'd probably make at least 3 dollars profit per burger. Again if you're selling someone dinner at the show they're putting an extra 5 or 6 dollars in your pockets when in reality you're spending about 2.
- Footage. You can make money off this. A lot of indy companies will charge 20-25 bucks for their DVD's. People won't pay that they'll just buy WWE, TNA or ROH. What you want to do is charge 10 (If no names) or 15 (With a name or two) this is basically a 5-10 dollar profit and people are more likely to buy it because it's 2-3 hours of entertainment for cheap.
Another thing you can do, Film the seminars from your names that I mentioned above. You can sell these on your website or online for money. Workers or people just interested in general will buy these. Again charge a fair price and watch the money roll in. Rob Feinstein has done this with incredible success.
- Make sure tickets are priced fairly. Chairman has gone into this a lot and he's 100% right. A lot of promoters go crazy and start charging 40-50 bucks for ringside because they've got a name on the show. 50 bucks for 2-3 hours entertainment for a local indy is way expensive. I think 20-25 bucks should be the highest for an indy and even that is rather expensive for an indy card.
I don't know anything about how to deal with wrestlers but I think if all indy companies did everything above the whole "scene" would be a lot better.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Jun 12, 2013 1:15:53 GMT -5
This part ties into one question that I would have:
As was said earlier, advertising is everything to get the name out for your indy show. With this in mind:
If you're running a show with only local names, no major draws. You're just starting out and are trying to get a buzz- you're taping shows, but aren't a big deal yet by any means. In a startup situation, is it better for the company as a whole to take the DVDs and try to sell them through a website and at shows, or to put the video on Youtube or torrent the whole show outright from the company itself, in an attempt to sacrifice a few DVD sales up front for a chance at potentially opening up the word of mouth on a larger scale?
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jun 12, 2013 1:47:40 GMT -5
This part ties into one question that I would have: As was said earlier, advertising is everything to get the name out for your indy show. With this in mind: If you're running a show with only local names, no major draws. You're just starting out and are trying to get a buzz- you're taping shows, but aren't a big deal yet by any means. In a startup situation, is it better for the company as a whole to take the DVDs and try to sell them through a website and at shows, or to put the video on Youtube or torrent the whole show outright from the company itself, in an attempt to sacrifice a few DVD sales up front for a chance at potentially opening up the word of mouth on a larger scale? This maybe just a thought. Maybe for the first show try doing that but still try and sell the DVD at shows and online. If not the whole show on youtube. Maybe the one match on the card that best defends the company. Just to get peoples attention. I agree that more federations need to try and run it like a business. Get all the sides working for you. Ticket, merchandise, Concessions, and so forth. I think everyone has posted good ideas. Loving this thread.
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SOR
Unicron
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Post by SOR on Jun 12, 2013 1:57:51 GMT -5
This part ties into one question that I would have: As was said earlier, advertising is everything to get the name out for your indy show. With this in mind: If you're running a show with only local names, no major draws. You're just starting out and are trying to get a buzz- you're taping shows, but aren't a big deal yet by any means. In a startup situation, is it better for the company as a whole to take the DVDs and try to sell them through a website and at shows, or to put the video on Youtube or torrent the whole show outright from the company itself, in an attempt to sacrifice a few DVD sales up front for a chance at potentially opening up the word of mouth on a larger scale? I'd upload 3 matches on YouTube and leave the 3-4 final matches for the DVD. If people enjoy the first three odds are they'll probably end up buying it for 10 dollars or so. I'd have announcers dub over the DVD also hyping up the main events in hopes of an impulse buy or something.
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Ultimo Gallos
Grimlock
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 14,471
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jun 12, 2013 9:41:43 GMT -5
This part ties into one question that I would have: As was said earlier, advertising is everything to get the name out for your indy show. With this in mind: If you're running a show with only local names, no major draws. You're just starting out and are trying to get a buzz- you're taping shows, but aren't a big deal yet by any means. In a startup situation, is it better for the company as a whole to take the DVDs and try to sell them through a website and at shows, or to put the video on Youtube or torrent the whole show outright from the company itself, in an attempt to sacrifice a few DVD sales up front for a chance at potentially opening up the word of mouth on a larger scale? What amazes me is how many feds film each show. Then do not sell the dvds online. My two local feds record each show,but you have goto their shows to buy the dvds.
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SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on Jun 12, 2013 14:31:55 GMT -5
This part ties into one question that I would have: As was said earlier, advertising is everything to get the name out for your indy show. With this in mind: If you're running a show with only local names, no major draws. You're just starting out and are trying to get a buzz- you're taping shows, but aren't a big deal yet by any means. In a startup situation, is it better for the company as a whole to take the DVDs and try to sell them through a website and at shows, or to put the video on Youtube or torrent the whole show outright from the company itself, in an attempt to sacrifice a few DVD sales up front for a chance at potentially opening up the word of mouth on a larger scale? What amazes me is how many feds film each show. Then do not sell the dvds online. My two local feds record each show,but you have goto their shows to buy the dvds. Some feds don't even sell them at shows. They record the show and just give it to the workers to mark out for.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jun 12, 2013 15:33:57 GMT -5
I have a couple other tidbits.
Seminars can be ok, but they can also be TERRIBLE. If you are paying somebody extra to do a seminar you might lose out. It's tough to get guys to pay anything substantial to do a seminar. Unless it's somebody with ties to the WWE or TNA offices most good workers won't drop the money. Obviously really green guys will think about it and maybe buy it. But, I personally haven't witnessed many successful seminars. I hosted on when I had Mr. Fuji on one of my shows, but it only made a little money and wasn't worth the extra effort.
If you have a school it can work, but if you have to run it BEFORE the show at the venue, most workers won't pay.
DVDs can also be a money loser. Don't expect to sell a bunch at first. It's tough to put together a good looking product. I mean if you have bad cameras and bad light sometimes you're better off just releasing some stuff online and not investing in the production of DVD. It's care intensive and makes very little profit to start. When I started I would sell them for $5, just to get local fans collecting them. But, don't expect much from DVD sales. Even DVDs with big names don't sell often. I used to film and produce DVD for other companies and even shows with BIG names sold very few DVDs. I don't think I've ever pressed more than 100 for a single show. I filmed a whole series of shows with Ric Flair and even those didn't fly off the shelves.
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All of SOR points are good. It;s all about not biting off more than you can chew. I had shows I was working the gate, booking, keeping time, flipping burgers, and filming. Remember EVERYTHING needs to happen at the same time. You need somebody running the food, somebody working the door, somebody in the locker room, and more.
Also for autograph sessions you'll need to have somebody with the worker. Either helping take money or snapping pictures, usually both. Some shows I would sit with the guys, other times I would have somebody I trust sit with the name.
OH HAVE CHANGE!! You'll need tons of 5's and 10's, maybe 1's depending on your prices. I ALWAYS go to the bank BEFORE the show and have lots of change on hand. Nothing slows a line down longer than having to beg people for change.
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Sam Punk
Hank Scorpio
Own Nothing, Be Happy
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Post by Sam Punk on Jun 12, 2013 19:49:37 GMT -5
A small thing that I'm curious about is the creation of tickets. What goes into getting tickets made for a show?
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Ultimo Gallos
Grimlock
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 14,471
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jun 13, 2013 2:57:07 GMT -5
I have a couple other tidbits. Seminars can be ok, but they can also be TERRIBLE. If you are paying somebody extra to do a seminar you might lose out. It's tough to get guys to pay anything substantial to do a seminar. Unless it's somebody with ties to the WWE or TNA offices most good workers won't drop the money. Obviously really green guys will think about it and maybe buy it. But, I personally haven't witnessed many successful seminars. I hosted on when I had Mr. Fuji on one of my shows, but it only made a little money and wasn't worth the extra effort. If you have a school it can work, but if you have to run it BEFORE the show at the venue, most workers won't pay. DVDs can also be a money loser. Don't expect to sell a bunch at first. It's tough to put together a good looking product. I mean if you have bad cameras and bad light sometimes you're better off just releasing some stuff online and not investing in the production of DVD. It's care intensive and makes very little profit to start. When I started I would sell them for $5, just to get local fans collecting them. But, don't expect much from DVD sales. Even DVDs with big names don't sell often. I used to film and produce DVD for other companies and even shows with BIG names sold very few DVDs. I don't think I've ever pressed more than 100 for a single show. I filmed a whole series of shows with Ric Flair and even those didn't fly off the shelves. See the two indies in my area sell dvd-rs of previous shows for $5 or $8 bucks. If they are in a sleeve they are $5. If they come in a case with a cover they are $8. Been told they sell well and make decent money off them. Another thing they do is hit up all the local Walmarts and buy any wrestling dvd they find in the $5 bin. Then sell them for $10 at the shows.
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SOR
Unicron
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Post by SOR on Jun 13, 2013 14:09:33 GMT -5
A small thing that I'm curious about is the creation of tickets. What goes into getting tickets made for a show? Simply have someone with a design background (Even if hobby) make your ticket on a computer. You put the image on a thumb drive and get it printed onto cardboard/paper at a local print shop.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jun 13, 2013 14:41:25 GMT -5
A small thing that I'm curious about is the creation of tickets. What goes into getting tickets made for a show? I've done ticket through ticket makers. For big shows this is the only way to go. For small shows I've printed my own. They used to sell templates at Staples. Sometime I would buy the business card templates and make tickets on those. I'd only be printing up <50 so that was the cheapest.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Jun 14, 2013 0:10:18 GMT -5
Getting an actual roll of generic ticket stubs is available at some office or stationery stores relatively cheaply, and is a much more worthwhile expenditure than printing out tickets yourself, simply because if you buy pre-made tickets, they'll often come with two sets of ticket, allowing you to run raffles far easier and more trustworthy (unless, of course, you "don't" want a trustworthy raffle... ) than you would with printed-out tickets.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jun 14, 2013 14:49:03 GMT -5
Getting an actual roll of generic ticket stubs is available at some office or stationery stores relatively cheaply, and is a much more worthwhile expenditure than printing out tickets yourself, simply because if you buy pre-made tickets, they'll often come with two sets of ticket, allowing you to run raffles far easier and more trustworthy (unless, of course, you "don't" want a trustworthy raffle... ) than you would with printed-out tickets. I personally was referring to printing out event tickets. You can buy raffle tickets at a party store.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Jun 14, 2013 17:52:14 GMT -5
Fascinating.
Thanks for sharing this great info.
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Post by jason1980s on Jun 14, 2013 17:58:34 GMT -5
This is a tremendous thread. It's very helpful and hopefully those wanting to put on a show will take advice. I think even some promoters who have put on shows before should take advice as we hear a few stories about poor indy shows. It's no small feat putting on an event especially one that involves a legend talent.
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MolotovMocktail
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Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Jun 14, 2013 21:50:54 GMT -5
Some more questions I have:
-Scheduling: how often should you run? Would you say one show per month is a minimum or a maximum?
-You talked about overreliance on social media, but I was thinking that shows can be uploaded onto Youtube after being completed. Fans who went there might get a kick out of seeing themselves, and seeing the show again, and it can be a good way of catching up fans who missed your last event and pulling in new ones in the area. On a similar note, do you recommend using Youtube to upload extras like backstage segments to advance angles?
-How have you found it giving wrestlers their finishes? Should I be prepared for someone who refuses to do the job? What should I do in those situations?
-Any strategy on getting WWE or TNA guys to take notice of you and some of your top stars?
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jun 14, 2013 22:17:47 GMT -5
Some more questions I have: -Scheduling: how often should you run? Would you say one show per month is a minimum or a maximum? -You talked about overreliance on social media, but I was thinking that shows can be uploaded onto Youtube after being completed. Fans who went there might get a kick out of seeing themselves, and seeing the show again, and it can be a good way of catching up fans who missed your last event and pulling in new ones in the area. On a similar note, do you recommend using Youtube to upload extras like backstage segments to advance angles? -How have you found it giving wrestlers their finishes? Should I be prepared for someone who refuses to do the job? What should I do in those situations? -Any strategy on getting WWE or TNA guys to take notice of you and some of your top stars? 1) IF you are running out of a rented venue (not school) start with ONE show. Start small. Once I started going sometimes I would run every other month, sometimes once a month, sometimes twice a weekend. If it's your first try run ONE show. You need to start advetising AT LEAST a month in advance. So you'll be planning looong before that. Promote your heart out and keep your fingers crossed. 2) I used to upload "highlight reels" from all my shows. I didn't worry about DVD sales. I worried about getting people into my character and stories. If you are in a good area it's possible to pull fans out of the woodwork. I also uploaded extras. Here is an interview we did with Stevie Richards. We ended up cross promoting with a local FM station. This video was filmed at a radio appearance Stevie was doing between shows. 3) When giving finishes BE HUMBLE. Don't force anybody to do anything. I most importantly would focus on the emotional reaction I wanted from the crowd. I always told everyone to BE SAFE and HAVE FUN. You need to book guys you like and trust. You'll find guys you like as you run shows. Be open to suggestions finish-wise. If you think wrestling is truly an art, this allows the workers to paint the picture to convey the story you want them to tell. 4) Hmm.. Well I lucked out. I'm from CT. So I knew WWE writers and former workers already. That is what helped me be concious of lots of the things I talk about. Also, even though Paul Roma has a bad rap he has a good mind for wrestling. Hell he came up with the name for my promotion Power and Glory Wrestling. We kept it as an ode to Roma. The best way to get noticed it to DRAW LARGE CROWDS and PAY. Also running a tight show is important. If you bring a guy in and you run late and he has to go on at 10:45 he'll be a bit less happy then if he went on at 9. Long shows SUCK for everybody.
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SOR
Unicron
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Post by SOR on Jun 14, 2013 22:23:43 GMT -5
Some more questions I have: -Scheduling: how often should you run? Would you say one show per month is a minimum or a maximum? -You talked about overreliance on social media, but I was thinking that shows can be uploaded onto Youtube after being completed. Fans who went there might get a kick out of seeing themselves, and seeing the show again, and it can be a good way of catching up fans who missed your last event and pulling in new ones in the area. On a similar note, do you recommend using Youtube to upload extras like backstage segments to advance angles? -How have you found it giving wrestlers their finishes? Should I be prepared for someone who refuses to do the job? What should I do in those situations? -Any strategy on getting WWE or TNA guys to take notice of you and some of your top stars? I know this is for Chairman but I'd like to give my views also. 1. I think it depends on where you run personally. If you want to be a one town promotion one time every month or two is probably fine. If you're open to running multiple area's and you're starting to become popular amongst the locals why not run another show? I also think if you're open to travelling to the country towns you could probably do a 4-5 day tour running in really small towns and a lot of the buildings will probably pay you to come. 2. Youtube should be used as a commercial for you to either come to a show or buy a DVD. I recommend using 2-3 matches from the undercard and putting them on youtube with a constant ad down the bottom saying "DVD now available at www.indypromotion.com" that way if people like it they purchase it. Maybe you also offer a code there for free shipping or something. Encouraging people to buy your product early on is very tough you need to use a lot of tricks.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jun 14, 2013 22:40:34 GMT -5
SOR where you from?
Tours are a huge expense in my neck of the woods. It's hard to draw for an INDY around here. Even when ROH was in CT they would do <500 when I went. Unless you're very calculated you stand to lose THOUSANDS in the blink of an eye. If you're renting the venue and running alone it's extremely hard around here. Even if you have names it's not easy. For me it wasn't about being open to running multiple areas. I was open. It was all about finding the right venue and the right promotional tools. I personally never had the chance to say, oh I like this building. Almost all my venues took an in. I usually rented the ring so my shows before venue always cost at least 1k. That's seriously barebones. I had decent name guys who would work for discount rates too and it was still tough.
Just thinking about it is stressing me out!
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