SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on Jun 14, 2013 23:14:36 GMT -5
SOR where you from? Tours are a huge expense in my neck of the woods. It's hard to draw for an INDY around here. Even when ROH was in CT they would do <500 when I went. Unless you're very calculated you stand to lose THOUSANDS in the blink of an eye. If you're renting the venue and running alone it's extremely hard around here. Even if you have names it's not easy. For me it wasn't about being open to running multiple areas. I was open. It was all about finding the right venue and the right promotional tools. I personally never had the chance to say, oh I like this building. Almost all my venues took an in. I usually rented the ring so my shows before venue always cost at least 1k. That's seriously barebones. I had decent name guys who would work for discount rates too and it was still tough. Just thinking about it is stressing me out! I'm from Australia. A lot of buildings such as bars and clubs will often pay promoters to run an event (Fairs also) this is how a number of local promotions make money. A promotion here does I believe a 7 day tour every year where they hit the big cities and they get 500-600. Of course it's a paid show but they make a killing in merchandise also. I know how much the venues pay them and it's quite significant for the 7 days (About 4 grand a show) I don't know how it works in the States maybe a dinner club or bar isn't so willing to pay a few thousand dollars to host a wrestling event but it isn't overly uncommon here.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jun 14, 2013 23:42:26 GMT -5
Yeah. Not so much here. The WWE tours around here constantly. I'm close to NYC too.
Australia. You know Niki Nitro? I met her recently in the states. She is back in Australia now. She's was great.
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SOR
Unicron
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Post by SOR on Jun 14, 2013 23:47:18 GMT -5
Yeah. Not so much here. The WWE tours around here constantly. I'm close to NYC too. Australia. You know Niki Nitro? I met her recently in the states. She is back in Australia now. She's was great. I know the name never seen her work though. Australia is the home of many great talented female wrestlers, kind of the best place to go apart from USA or Japan for women's wrestling thanks to Madison Eagles.
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,976
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Jun 15, 2013 0:08:28 GMT -5
So when testing the waters with your inaugural show, should the focus be on showcasing the talents of the workers more than trying to develop long-term angles? How soon before you should start crowning champions? And what should be the format for doing so-battle royal, tournament, 4-way elimination?
That leads into my next question: what am I looking at in terms of cost for belts? The indy that occasionally runs in my area (I say "occasionally" meaning the last time they ran was 2 years ago, so I wouldn't be facing stiff competition) used plastic WWE replicas. It looked really amateurish, but should I be prepared to do something like that if I expect to have any sort of a title?
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SOR
Unicron
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Post by SOR on Jun 15, 2013 0:28:50 GMT -5
So when testing the waters with your inaugural show, should the focus be on showcasing the talents of the workers more than trying to develop long-term angles? How soon before you should start crowning champions? And what should be the format for doing so-battle royal, tournament, 4-way elimination? That leads into my next question: what am I looking at in terms of cost for belts? The indy that occasionally runs in my area (I say "occasionally" meaning the last time they ran was 2 years ago, so I wouldn't be facing stiff competition) used plastic WWE replicas. It looked really amateurish, but should I be prepared to do something like that if I expect to have any sort of a title? 1. Battle Royale is so overdone these days to crown a champion I'd go for a tournament. Sure, Tournaments are overdone also but there aren't a lot of throw away tournaments out there whilst it seems every indy these days runs a rumble for nothing these days. I'd wait 3-4 months to crown a champion so the people can have an emotional connection with your wrestlers. 2. Cost of belts vary like everything else. You can get something "okay" for like 600-700 bucks. If you want something really nice they can go for upwards of 1500-2000.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Jun 15, 2013 8:57:13 GMT -5
On the second, there might be less expensive options for the start if you need to cut a little bit of a corner and don't want to have WWE-ripoff belts- finding other ways to show champions could help it. (In theory, the best bang for a buck would be trophies: Simpler, effective to connote a champion, and when you have gotten enough money to get a nice looking belt, the "angry challenger or former champion smashes the trophy over the champion's head" angle writes itself to write off the old title.
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SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on Jun 15, 2013 9:29:07 GMT -5
On the second, there might be less expensive options for the start if you need to cut a little bit of a corner and don't want to have WWE-ripoff belts- finding other ways to show champions could help it. (In theory, the best bang for a buck would be trophies: Simpler, effective to connote a champion, and when you have gotten enough money to get a nice looking belt, the "angry challenger or former champion smashes the trophy over the champion's head" angle writes itself to write off the old title. This also works. A lot of feds use a Trophy or Cup as a secondary championship and I've always liked it.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jun 15, 2013 19:14:01 GMT -5
So when testing the waters with your inaugural show, should the focus be on showcasing the talents of the workers more than trying to develop long-term angles? How soon before you should start crowning champions? And what should be the format for doing so-battle royal, tournament, 4-way elimination? That leads into my next question: what am I looking at in terms of cost for belts? The indy that occasionally runs in my area (I say "occasionally" meaning the last time they ran was 2 years ago, so I wouldn't be facing stiff competition) used plastic WWE replicas. It looked really amateurish, but should I be prepared to do something like that if I expect to have any sort of a title? I say the first show would focus on showcasing the talent. My reason is one is making sure fans know how good there talent is. Too if your unsure if there will be a second show. Fans will get confused. Also we learned this from Extreme raising first show they tried to do angles right off the bad when advertised an reunion and it failed. You can plant the seeds for an angle for feud starter I think based on how a match ends. Have a heel cheat to win over a face. Then using youtube to make a hype video for the next show having the face seek revenge on that heel. Making the first video he makes a challenge. The next video we learn the rematch was signed. Keep it simple but still seem effective. Battle royals for the first champion is ok but I like tournaments because it helps showcase the talent better. Because they are doing more of there movesets compared to how most worst a battle royal.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Oct 22, 2013 16:03:32 GMT -5
Ok, well it's been a while. How is everybody? I figured I would bump this thread. Here is the latest show I've been working on promoting Here is another tip. The nicer the flyer the more appealing the show. If the flyer looks like you made it in MSpaint less people will take you seriously. Printing flyers can be costly, but at least some are needed. The days of putting flyers on cars are pretty much behind us. Internet marketing tied with local marketing is huge. Here area few tips. 1) Shell out for some color flyers. - Store owners will be much more likely to showcase your work if it looks professional. 2) If you want to save money do B&W Halfsheets... - This allows you to get twice as many fliers for the same price. The are great if you are handing them out at a show or leaving them in a high traffic area. 3) Card is Subject to Change? - I love how everybody does this. Sometimes I do sometimes I don't. I don't know what type of fans other INDYs attract but I've yet to have anybody try and sue me for a line-up change. However, I'm an honest guy and never falsely advertised somebody on purpose. I don't know of the "landmark" case in which wrestling promoters were given free reign to falsely advertise. If somebody is mad, but give them their money back. 4) Don't litter parking lots. You are leaving all of your contact information. They will contact you and/or call the police. 5) Local advertising and promotion works. TNA just drew as many people to a PPV that Northeast Wrestling to Torrington, CT. This includes.... - working a deal with a local pizza joint - local ticket outlets - local radio station - local newspapers - local event websites 6) Be careful when using WWE copyrighted materials. - they will cease and desist you and you'll have to take the flyer down. - if you plan on using a "WWE/WWF" guy it is worth it to take your own pictures for future use... This is just a quick totally off the cuff post. I could elaborate on anything that somebody wants to know more about. In the end the moral of this post is, FOR MOST PEOPLE YOUR FLYER IS THEIR FIRST IMPRESSION OF YOUR SHOW!!! Oh and an education tidbit, as far as I know both spellings of flier/flyer are ok. Supposedly one is American and one is British. I guess it's like gray and grey. I tend to use flyer, but mix it up sometimes!
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,700
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Post by Square on Oct 22, 2013 16:19:32 GMT -5
Ok, well it's been a while. How is everybody? I figured I would bump this thread. Here is the latest show I've been working on promoting Here is another tip. The nicer the flyer the more appealing the show. If the flyer looks like you made it in MSpaint less people will take you seriously. Printing flyers can be costly, but at least some are needed. The days of putting flyers on cars are pretty much behind us. Internet marketing tied with local marketing is huge. Here area few tips. 1) Shell out for some color flyers. - Store owners will be much more likely to showcase your work if it looks professional. 2) If you want to save money do B&W Halfsheets... - This allows you to get twice as many fliers for the same price. The are great if you are handing them out at a show or leaving them in a high traffic area. 3) Card is Subject to Change? - I love how everybody does this. Sometimes I do sometimes I don't. I don't know what type of fans other INDYs attract but I've yet to have anybody try and sue me for a line-up change. However, I'm an honest guy and never falsely advertised somebody on purpose. I don't know of the "landmark" case in which wrestling promoters were given free reign to falsely advertise. If somebody is mad, but give them their money back. 4) Don't litter parking lots. You are leaving all of your contact information. They will contact you and/or call the police. 5) Local advertising and promotion works. TNA just drew as many people to a PPV that Northeast Wrestling to Torrington, CT. This includes.... - working a deal with a local pizza joint - local ticket outlets - local radio station - local newspapers - local event websites 6) Be careful when using WWE copyrighted materials. - they will cease and desist you and you'll have to take the flyer down. - if you plan on using a "WWE/WWF" guy it is worth it to take your own pictures for future use... This is just a quick totally off the cuff post. I could elaborate on anything that somebody wants to know more about. In the end the moral of this post is, FOR MOST PEOPLE YOUR FLYER IS THEIR FIRST IMPRESSION OF YOUR SHOW!!! Oh and an education tidbit, as far as I know both spellings of flier/flyer are ok. Supposedly one is American and one is British. I guess it's like gray and grey. I tend to use flyer, but mix it up sometimes! Flyer is English, flier is American. Flier in the UK means something that flies
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Oct 22, 2013 16:26:59 GMT -5
Flyer is English, flier is American. Flier in the UK means something that flies Thanks for the clarification!
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Oct 22, 2013 16:28:16 GMT -5
Flyer is English, flier is American. Flier in the UK means something that flies Thanks for the clarification! Flier vs. flyer Outside the U.S., there is no difference between flyer and flier. They are interchangeable, though flyer is about twice as common as flier. American writers tend to use flyer for small handbills and flier for people and things that fly. This distinction does not run deep, though, and the two spellings are very often used interchangeably even in the U.S., so it’s safe to say that neither is correct or incorrect for any sense of the word.
An earlier version of this post said simply that flier is the American spelling for all senses of the word while flyer is preferred everywhere else. This is the conventional wisdom, but it’s not consistently borne out in practice.
There is little consistency in spelling of the word outside the U.S. The Guardian style book, for example, says “flyer, not flier,” while the Daily Telegraph style book says “flier, not flyer,” but in practice these newspapers and other non-U.S. publications use both spellings seemingly with no pattern except that flyer is more common. Obviously there is no agreement on the issue, and the flier–flyer distinction is unsettled for now.I'm just insensitive I guess! I equate Daily Telegraph to Great Britain, therefore I went British instead of English.
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,700
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Post by Square on Oct 22, 2013 16:37:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the clarification! Flier vs. flyer Outside the U.S., there is no difference between flyer and flier. They are interchangeable, though flyer is about twice as common as flier. American writers tend to use flyer for small handbills and flier for people and things that fly. This distinction does not run deep, though, and the two spellings are very often used interchangeably even in the U.S., so it’s safe to say that neither is correct or incorrect for any sense of the word.
An earlier version of this post said simply that flier is the American spelling for all senses of the word while flyer is preferred everywhere else. This is the conventional wisdom, but it’s not consistently borne out in practice.
There is little consistency in spelling of the word outside the U.S. The Guardian style book, for example, says “flyer, not flier,” while the Daily Telegraph style book says “flier, not flyer,” but in practice these newspapers and other non-U.S. publications use both spellings seemingly with no pattern except that flyer is more common. Obviously there is no agreement on the issue, and the flier–flyer distinction is unsettled for now.I'm just insensitive I guess! I equate Daily Telegraph to Great Britain, therefore I went British instead of English. Its complicated with American spellings in the UK, its murky ground what is right and wrong which is annoying as hell if you are a writer
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Oct 22, 2013 16:40:48 GMT -5
Its complicated with American spellings in the UK, its murky ground what is right and wrong which is annoying as hell if you are a writer The only saving grace for me is I never have to write the word flyer on the flyer...or flier on the flier...lol
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on Oct 23, 2013 8:04:33 GMT -5
I find local promotion very useful for shows, particularly if they're running a bigger building than normal with more name talent. There was a show in London last year that had the likes of Carlito, Chris Masters and Kevin Nash booked (Nash was later withdrawn from the show due to a fallout between the promoters), in addition to smaller imports such as Sami Callihan and Matt Cross. I live in a different area of London to where the show was taking place, and even our fish & chip shops and taxi offices and places like those had flyers for the show, they put a lot of effort into letting people around London know about the show under a reasonable budget.
Last month, I went up to Glasgow for a women's show. First thing I saw walking onto the street from the train station was a big poster for the show on a phone booth. That poster had the word "WRESTLING" bold on the front, and emphasised the inclusion of Amazing Kong on the show, although not promoted under either of her national promotion gimmicks, they emphasised that she was in both WWE and TNA, so that fans would hopefully remember her and go and see her. Casual fans don't care about the name of the promotion or their regulars, they just want wrestling, and they want to see someone they might know.
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Post by doinkmark on Oct 24, 2013 9:28:15 GMT -5
My company is currently experiencing an interesting problem with an upcoming show. It's not an indy wrestling show, but I think indy promoters could learn from this. We booked a venue in a good neighborhood with a lot of stores around it, which we thought would increase our chances of potential vendors and/or sponsorship. As it turned out, this area is the richest part of the county we booked in. As a result, all the surrounding stores are corporate-owned giants who are unwilling to do any business with us even when their local store expressed interest. The venue also cost us more than we'll likely make back. It seemed worth it at the time because it was a high-traffic, safe area with a lot going on, but because of all the corporate BS we had to go further out in order to find smaller places that wanted to vend with us, that would let us put up flyers in their windows, etc.
Oh, and consider TV advertising if you can afford it. Contrary to popular belief, plenty of people still watch TV on a TV. If you're a local indy fed, you could buy ads on the local broadcasts of Raw or SmackDown. We bought ads on related programming for our show for about $1,000. We assumed it would be way more since it was a cable show that aired everywhere, but just hitting your local key demo during a show they're likely already watching is perfectly acceptable.
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Post by doinkmark on Oct 24, 2013 9:28:41 GMT -5
My company is currently experiencing an interesting problem with an upcoming show. It's not an indy wrestling show, but I think indy promoters could learn from this. We booked a venue in a good neighborhood with a lot of stores around it, which we thought would increase our chances of potential vendors and/or sponsorship. As it turned out, this area is the richest part of the county we booked in. As a result, all the surrounding stores are corporate-owned giants who are unwilling to do any business with us even when their local store expressed interest. The venue also cost us more than we'll likely make back. It seemed worth it at the time because it was a high-traffic, safe area with a lot going on, but because of all the corporate BS we had to go further out in order to find smaller places that wanted to vend with us, that would let us put up flyers in their windows, etc.
Oh, and consider TV advertising if you can afford it. Contrary to popular belief, plenty of people still watch TV on a TV. If you're a local indy fed, you could buy ads on the local broadcasts of Raw or SmackDown. We bought ads on related programming for our show for about $1,000. We assumed it would be way more since it was a cable show that aired everywhere, but just hitting your local key demo during a show they're likely already watching is perfectly acceptable.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Oct 24, 2013 14:39:52 GMT -5
TV ads can help. I really depends if you have the video production capabilities and the extra money.
When I used to buy ads I would normally try to swing a deal. For example, I would buy an ad on Raw the week of the show, but I would also couple that with ads on other wrestling shows. At the time I would buy only 1 or 2 RAW spot because of the cost and buy more ECW on Syfy (dating myself). We produced our own ads so we never really had to pay for anything but the ad buy.
So yeah TV ads can be great, but they can be expensive. If you're on a shoe string budget you most likely would be better off advertising in a different way.
here is an example of an ad we ran last year. It's my buddies vimeo account, but that's my voice doing the terrible vo.
Oh and yeah corporate shops are a pain in the ass. UNLESS you can get once to work WITH you then you're doing great. I've had the same problem. I tend to have the most luck with food places and gas stations. Also LOTS of stores have bulletin boards. Always post up there. Sure, I even ask myself who the hell is really checking this bulletin board. You never know if it's within walking distance you'd be surprised.
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Post by jason1980s on Oct 24, 2013 15:52:07 GMT -5
Good to see a great thread continue!
My advice... Whatever they did on Hogan's MCW show...DON'T DO! That'll guarantee success.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Oct 24, 2013 18:20:54 GMT -5
You are booking Bandido Jr? First time working with him? Guy has been on a tear in tag matches with A real since joining CZW fulltime
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