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Post by Chairman of the Board on Oct 24, 2013 18:23:58 GMT -5
You are booking Bandido Jr? First time working with him? Guy has been on a tear in tag matches with A real since joining CZW fulltime I personally have never booked him. Technically I'm not booking him this show either. I don't book the guys. I don't run my own shows anymore. He's worked this town a lot and he seems to be pretty popular around here.
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Post by rowdy426 on Oct 24, 2013 22:50:43 GMT -5
You are booking Bandido Jr? First time working with him? Guy has been on a tear in tag matches with A real since joining CZW fulltime I personally have never booked him. Technically I'm not booking him this show either. I don't book the guys. I don't run my own shows anymore. He's worked this town a lot and he seems to be pretty popular around here. Can't go wrong with Bandido Jr. Good guy, good head on his shoulders. I used to work shows he and his father would run out of Newark, NJ; they are good people.
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Post by drjayphd (feat. Pitbull) on Oct 24, 2013 22:53:15 GMT -5
5) Local advertising and promotion works. TNA just drew as many people to a PPV that Northeast Wrestling to Torrington, CT. This includes.... - working a deal with a local pizza joint - local ticket outlets - local radio station - local newspapers - local event websites Speaking from the other side of this... precisely. A wrestling show, especially one with recognizable names, will make for good feature fodder, be it in the sports or news section. Also, there was someone in our coverage area back when I was with the Torrington paper who helped hook me up with the chance to interview Awesome Kong. (This was post-TNA, pre-WWE.) The story pimping the show ended up on page 1. Make connections with the press, and you'll probably find at least one reporter who'd be more than willing to give you some good coverage. (Also, while I didn't actually get to see the show, I've heard nothing but good things about NEW, so that helps.)
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saintpat
El Dandy
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Post by saintpat on Oct 25, 2013 0:05:50 GMT -5
Never promoted a wrestling show, but my brother had done some small and medium-sized boxing shows. For several years I partnered with him (I was more booking/talent relations and ideas, he was more running and marketing the show, tickets, etc.).
Some of that wouldn't apply to this, but much of it does. Here are a few things we learned that may be helpful to someone:
1) Create as many revenue streams as you can for each show -- ticket sales, concessions, merch, meet-and-greet premium packages
2) We found selling ringside tables rather than tickets was a key for us. Instead of the usual thing lining the ring with chairs -- we usually did that on only one side -- we lined it with tables. You could get 2 or 3 rows of 5 or 6 tables with 8 seats each around three sides of the ring. Groups of friends or co-workers would go in together and buy the tables, and selling eight tickets in one transactions is a lot easier than selling one or two or three tickets at a time -- plus you don't get that odd leftover when this group buys three and this guy buys two, etc., and you have 1 or 2 seats on each row kind of hard to sell because they aren't together. Highest prices were for front-row middle tables, a little less for the ones toward the corner, then second row a little less, etc.
The big thing here was in running multiple shows (we did usually about 4 shows a year in our town, and maybe one or two in nearby smaller cities) -- if people had a good time, they wanted THEIR table for the next show (same spot) and would let you know to hold it. Almost always, one person would end up change of that and buy the table and then collect the money on the back end to get the ticket to whoever was using it -- so if one person dropped out another friend or co-worker would end up with it after hearing about what a good time everyone else was having. And a few 'high rollers' -- doctors or lawyers or successful business owners -- would get their table and just have three or four people at it so they could have some elbow room.
We did traditional (non-table) seats on the other side, and also 'floor seats' behind the tables where there was room.
3) Collect email addresses and home addresses -- put together a mailing list and ask anyone who wants updates about future shows to sign up. We put the sign-up list at the merch table, the concession stand and the front door. People who are into your product want this -- and it's people you know are willing to spend money on your promotion. A lot of times when we did smaller shows in towns (from 15 minutes to 90 minutes away), people on the mailing list would sometimes call and get tickets for that show for a "road trip" experience.
This, and the table concept, gives helps build your regulars. And it's money in the bank -- if you know you have 12 or 15 tables sold before you even have your main event lined up, you've got some security.
4) Boxing isn't wrestling -- you can't book the ending -- but in putting together the order of bouts a few things were important.
The first and last (main event) fights are most important. You want a match to start off with that gets everyone into it right away. And you want an attraction at the end, the main thing people are waiting for.
We always had two intermissions -- say if we had six fights, one after the third fight and one before the main event. This pushes concessions (and having the rights to concessions, or at least a portion of them if it's a split with the venue, is a VERY important revenue stream) and also gives people a bathroom break or smoking break or whatever. The second break was also the raffle -- we would sell tickets for like $2 bucks (having someone circulating throughout the arena selling them) wiht a nice prize (a shotgun or boxing gloves autographed by a name fighter or whatever) and have a lot of smaller prizes so a lot of people won something (a DVD, stuffed animals for the kids, boxing glove key rings, posters autographed by every fighter on the show, etc.). You can make a nice profit from this and also make a few people happy enough to want to come back.
5) We eventually worked out a formula where we were aiming to get like an average of $30 a head out of everyone who entered the building. That included what they paid for a ticket, what they spent on concessions, merch, whatever. These were 'club shows,' not contenders, just mostly local and area fighters, so ringside table seats averaged about $20 and the cheap seats were like $8. So if we ended up making $30 a head and drew 500, you do the math. It made for a profit, and after a couple of years we raised our prices a bit and got it up to $40 a head or so and were able to book some pretty decent main events by bringing in semi-name fighters (a Mike Tyson sparring partner, guys who had fought on ESPN, etc.) to fight our guys in main events.
Again, that's not all wrestling-specific but promoting is promoting.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Oct 25, 2013 0:17:11 GMT -5
^^^ This is close to how MMA does it. One of my friends is a fighter so I've seen a lot of his shows. The Main Event is normally a good local guy with an impressive record vs. a guy who was on TV or had some kind of connection to UFC or something. Intermissions is works the MMA does two one after the I amateurs (Rookies) fights and one before the Main Event fights. I know a lot of wrestling will have one intermission. Depending one the kind of show you are having. It's different if the show is doing lets say an IPPV tapping which a lot of indies do these days.
Non IPPVs seem to do it mid way into the matches. IPPVs will have your "dark matches" than the main show.
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saintpat
El Dandy
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Post by saintpat on Oct 25, 2013 0:56:41 GMT -5
I should clarify things on the tables:
We didn't start out with that many, it built up to that. I think we did them on one side of the ring, two rows of four tables each, for the first show. Other people said they wanted tables and it built up from there.
And every table doesn't have to be presold -- you sell individual seats at any unsold table at the equivalent ringside price -- maybe $15 per seat on the second row and $20 on a first-row table, whatever. People told us they liked the table seats better because they had somewhere to set their drink or nachos or popcorn. As it grew, we got a couple of high school kids to be waiters and take orders from people at the tables, working for tips -- going and getting what they wanted from the concession stands. People tipped them enough and they got to see the show for free.
Another important point: have someone you trust everywhere money is being taken (at the door, concessions, merch) AND around any back/side entrances if the venue has its own people or they require security people there. People will let their buddies in side doors or skim off the concession money -- you know at the end of the night you sold 200 hot dogs and 300 drinks and the money doesn't add up, it's too late to do anything about it.
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SOR
Unicron
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Post by SOR on Oct 25, 2013 2:52:48 GMT -5
Table seats is a good idea for boxing or a legitimate sporting contest. Don't know if I personally would be into the idea at a wrestling show.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Oct 25, 2013 14:15:53 GMT -5
My only objection to using the table at one of my shows would be they take up WAYY too much room.
I barely have room to set up vendor tables most of the time, never mind tables for fans!
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saintpat
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Post by saintpat on Oct 25, 2013 14:53:03 GMT -5
They took up about the same amount of room as the seats they replace. You can find skinny tables that are half as wide as the kind that wrestlers usually get thrown through.
Just an idea that worked for us. By the time we got up to 30-plus tables automatically sold for each event, it was worth it.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Oct 25, 2013 15:12:00 GMT -5
They took up about the same amount of room as the seats they replace. You can find skinny tables that are half as wide as the kind that wrestlers usually get thrown through. Just an idea that worked for us. By the time we got up to 30-plus tables automatically sold for each event, it was worth it. What size venues were you running? I mean 30 tables? That is A LOT of space and work. Did your venues have 30 tables or were you renting tables? To me it logicistically seems like a HUGE pain in the ass.
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saintpat
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Post by saintpat on Oct 25, 2013 15:16:40 GMT -5
Started in a tin building at the local fairground, outgrew that and moved to a very small civic center that probably held 500 tops, then to a place about the size of a small high school gym (but no bleachers).
The last venue had a curved balcony that basically hovered above three sides of the ring -- set far back, but with a nice vantage point. We put two-seat tables up there -- very small round tables -- and sold those for like $50 per table. Not sure where he found those little tables.
Rented tables from a church, where we also got the chairs -- no more of a pain than renting just chairs. They threw them in very cheap because we were getting chairs from them regularly. Setup with tables was no more of a problem than setting up chairs, took no longer.
I think eventually my brother may have ended up buying some of those skinny tables. I'd have to ask him. We ran this regularly for probably 6-7 years (although I wasn't involved the last couple of years due to having to choose between that and applying myself to my job as it was taking up too much time -- I was also training the boxers).
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metylerca
King Koopa
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Post by metylerca on Oct 25, 2013 15:26:58 GMT -5
This thread is fascinating.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Oct 25, 2013 15:38:31 GMT -5
Started in a tin building at the local fairground, outgrew that and moved to a very small civic center that probably held 500 tops, then to a place about the size of a small high school gym (but no bleachers). The last venue had a curved balcony that basically hovered above three sides of the ring -- set far back, but with a nice vantage point. We put two-seat tables up there -- very small round tables -- and sold those for like $50 per table. Not sure where he found those little tables. Rented tables from a church, where we also got the chairs -- no more of a pain than renting just chairs. They threw them in very cheap because we were getting chairs from them regularly. Setup with tables was no more of a problem than setting up chairs, took no longer. I think eventually my brother may have ended up buying some of those skinny tables. I'd have to ask him. We ran this regularly for probably 6-7 years (although I wasn't involved the last couple of years due to having to choose between that and applying myself to my job as it was taking up too much time -- I was also training the boxers). So your talking more of like a round bistro table with 2 seats? I'm sure it can work in the right venue. I never really had the luxury of running the same venue every show. I usually am in a different venue for every event, maybe visiting the same venue a couple times a year. For somebody trying to run their first show I would personally tell them to just rent chairs. If you have a name you can get $25 for a front row seat. You're clearing 2k just in front row. Maybe I'm having trouble picturing it, but I just can't understand how you aren't losing space with 30 tables on the floor. I would also warn somebody running for the first time to be weary of it in case the fire marshall wants to break balls. I do like the idea, but I just never had a situation present itself in which something like that would have been possible. For instance, the up charge on the table seat would be offset by the cost of renting the table and losing floor space. I also have a good ring person so I never had the need to a box truck to lug stuff around in. I wish I could see a picture or something.
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saintpat
El Dandy
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Post by saintpat on Oct 25, 2013 15:50:36 GMT -5
Started in a tin building at the local fairground, outgrew that and moved to a very small civic center that probably held 500 tops, then to a place about the size of a small high school gym (but no bleachers). The last venue had a curved balcony that basically hovered above three sides of the ring -- set far back, but with a nice vantage point. We put two-seat tables up there -- very small round tables -- and sold those for like $50 per table. Not sure where he found those little tables. Rented tables from a church, where we also got the chairs -- no more of a pain than renting just chairs. They threw them in very cheap because we were getting chairs from them regularly. Setup with tables was no more of a problem than setting up chairs, took no longer. I think eventually my brother may have ended up buying some of those skinny tables. I'd have to ask him. We ran this regularly for probably 6-7 years (although I wasn't involved the last couple of years due to having to choose between that and applying myself to my job as it was taking up too much time -- I was also training the boxers). So your talking more of like a round bistro table with 2 seats? I'm sure it can work in the right venue. I never really had the luxury of running the same venue every show. I usually am in a different venue for every event, maybe visiting the same venue a couple times a year. For somebody trying to run their first show I would personally tell them to just rent chairs. If you have a name you can get $25 for a front row seat. You're clearing 2k just in front row. Maybe I'm having trouble picturing it, but I just can't understand how you aren't losing space with 30 tables on the floor. I would also warn somebody running for the first time to be weary of it in case the fire marshall wants to break balls. I do like the idea, but I just never had a situation present itself in which something like that would have been possible. For instance, the up charge on the table seat would be offset by the cost of renting the table and losing floor space. I also have a good ring person so I never had the need to a box truck to lug stuff around in. I wish I could see a picture or something. My brother is out of town this weekend. I'll ask him when he gets back if he has photos. Yes, the bistro table for the "upper deck" is what I was talking about. Hey, not saying that's the way for everybody to do it. It just kind of grew and took on a life of its own, had a waiting list for tables after a couple of years and second-row table groups waiting for one on the first row to open up. The whole thing kind of ended when someone held an MMA show in the final venue we ran in -- and a fight broke out. It was a public venue at a city park and the city council decided to now allow MMA or boxing (or wrestling I would imagine, although I'm not aware of anyone running wrestling there) anymore. We would have gone back to the second venue -- it was in a sister city across the river (literally 5-6 miles from the other venues) -- but the city government had taken up half the space with office pods by that time because they were outgrowing their office space. And the tin building just wasn't viable anymore. The fair has moved to another location and that place is basically abandoned, may not even have power anymore for all I know. My brother has run small shows, one to three a year, in nearby towns.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Oct 25, 2013 15:52:07 GMT -5
AHHHH!!
Upper deck! Oh that's totally different. Maybe I skimmed your post too fast!
I was thinking floor seats.
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saintpat
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Post by saintpat on Oct 25, 2013 17:31:52 GMT -5
AHHHH!! Upper deck! Oh that's totally different. Maybe I skimmed your post too fast! I was thinking floor seats. The 'upper deck' was just for those 2-seat round tables. It didn't make sense to just sit chairs up there and charge $10 or something, but a table for two (with a waitress making rounds for concession) for $50, that worked. Hard to describe, but that venue basically had two smallish basketball courts (with a wall between them) and an upper deck that was actually a walking track above the courts. They would run youth leagues and tournaments, but you could also rent them out (and it came with 2 rooms that were used for aerobics or whatever that we used as locker rooms). The 8-seat tables were ringside on the floor, eventually on three sides of the ring, 2 or 3 rows of tables deep. That added up to 120 first-row table seats, same on the second and third rows of tables.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Oct 25, 2013 19:00:11 GMT -5
The 8-seat tables were ringside on the floor, eventually on three sides of the ring, 2 or 3 rows of tables deep. That added up to 120 first-row table seats, same on the second and third rows of tables. Damn. How big of a ring did you use?
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saintpat
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Post by saintpat on Oct 25, 2013 23:56:34 GMT -5
Boxing rings have bigger aprons -- the area outside the ropes. I believe it was 18 feet inside the ropes with a 2-foot apron, so 20 feet on each side.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Oct 27, 2013 23:14:18 GMT -5
Great to see this thread back. Came up with some new questions:
How open are most wrestlers to suggestions for gimmick changes, new theme music and face/heel turns? Do most guys come in with pre-set gimmicks and themes, and will they be angry if you decide you want to take them in a new direction?
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Oct 28, 2013 15:10:15 GMT -5
Great to see this thread back. Came up with some new questions: How open are most wrestlers to suggestions for gimmick changes, new theme music and face/heel turns? Do most guys come in with pre-set gimmicks and themes, and will they be angry if you decide you want to take them in a new direction? It all depends. If you're asking somebody to work for you then you're taking them as they come. If somebody asks you to book them, then you have some flexibility. Most of the time if you are reaching out to book somebody it is because you like their gimmick and think they can get your crowd to react and buy tickets. However, wrestling is full of green guys trying to find a niche and earn a spot. If you're a good promoter and you say, look if you just do this I'll be much more likely to book you regularly, lots of guys will be ok with it as long as it make sense. Then again, you never know who is a legend in their own mind... I normally wouldn't TOTALLY change something somebody was doing. I would often try and tweak it to make it stand out more or more fitting. If your friends with somebody you just ask them. I wouldn't say "Hey Eddie Kingston, you're dressing like the Ultimate Warrior tonight". I would say "hey Eddie Kingston, you mind working with this new girl Taeler Hendrix tonight?" As for face/hell turns I never had a problem with anybody not wanting to. It all depends on if you're a shitty booker I guess. If you're turning somebody usually that means they will not only be booked for several shows, but it also means they will be the focal point of some sort of angle, which is usually something you want as a worker. But, I always got along with the wrestlers, for some people that isn't always the case. Entrance themes are up for grabs. Legally you aren't supposed to use copyrighted music, so unless it an original piece I reserved the right to do whatever I wanted. If the song had swears it was out for sure. I mean if you need copyrighted music to get over then maybe you're doing something wrong. Sometime a guy will come to you 10 minutes before the show and say "oh here's my music" and hand you a CD. Usually that means he is SOL and will be dancing his way to the ring to something else. IMO it comes down to being respectful.
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