Post by Chairman of the Board on Jun 9, 2013 13:15:09 GMT -5
***This is an all purpose thread for discussion on running an INDY show. Questions, comments, stories, and advise are encouraged. Running an INDY show can seem like an impossible task. Well it's not impossible but it's really really hard. It's tons of work. This thread will reveal some of the less obvious problems and hurdles. ***
Well, I've run good shows and bad shows. I've worked and attended good shows and bad shows. I figure since I'm bored I'll put together a list of different thing I've learned and rules of thumb when running a show.
1) Book the VENUE, then the show.
- Seems like a no-brainer, but lots of people fall into this trap. The venue can make or break your show BEFORE you book a single worker. I've personally only lost BIG money on one show, and it was because of this mistake. The parking was horrible and the area wasn't the best. We drew 500-600+ for this show, but I was shooting for 1k. As far as I know every show that has run that venue since has failed. It used to be ok years ago, but the neighborhood has one downhill in the past 20 years, and most people learned not to go there.
- Venues have hidden costs. You might need to rent chairs. You might need to get event insurance specifically to sign the venue contract. So many different variables come into play that you NEED to know exactly how much the venue will cost BEFORE you do ANYTHING else. Speaking again from the show I lost money on, not only did I agree to pay WAAAY to much for the rental, I also was creamed by insurance costs and the cost of renting chairs and tables. In the grand scheme of things chairs won't run you too too much, but renting 200 chairs isn't free and will change the budget.
2) Once you book the venue, quickly book the RING if you haven't already!
- Another no brainer, but a reliable ring crew and a good ring are essential. No ring, no show. Late ring, late show. I've rented all different rings. If you want a cage match, find a ring crew that has a proper cage to fit the ring you will be using that night. You'd be surprised how long it can take to set up and take down a cage. Most of the time I would let the crew I'm using know ALL my future dates so I can secure them for every show.
- Rings are different sizes. Different crews have different stuff. I've used crews with JUST the ring. I've used crews with ring, rails, music and entryway. The size of the ring will determine how many floor seats you are selling. If it's a larger ring, that means more front row seats which could be a good thing depending on who you end up booking.
3) Venue? Check! Ring? Check! Now what? It's time to take another look at the budget.
- Ok, now it's impossible to do all this work without an idea of who you want on the show. You have to look at everything realistically. If your venue can hold 400, that means you're hopefully making about 5k if your GA tickets are around $10 BEFORE paying ANYTHING. That is in a perfect world. Overbooking a show will lose money and if it doesn't you'll be making less.
- I always tried to make sure the costs of "name" guys wasn't more than what I would make by selling out the front row. For example, you book Hacksaw Jim Duggan for 1k, you fly him in and get him a hotel for total you're at like 1500. If I charge $20 for front row, I'm at about 1600 if I can squeeze 80 seats in. That is a good start. Now if you can push to sell out front row, you know you'll be able to pay your top "draw". If you are paying a lot of money to somebody who you don't think will draw what you are paying, don't book them. You might find yourself looking like a jackass.
4) Venue, Ring, and Top Draw(s) booked...now what? PROMOTE! PROMOTE! PROMOTE!
- I don't care if it's flyering, calling local papers, or scouring for sponsors. This is what will make or break your show. Internet promoting means very little. You'll make more money if 100 people down the street from the venue know about the show than 1000 people online.
- If you don't want to make it your job to promote the show you are doing a disservice to youself and everybody working for you. Running a show is about making money. If that isn't your first priority you won't last very long. Sure most of us get into it because we're fans, but that ends once your neck is on the line. Remember you can be sued if something goes wrong. I've had health departments call me. I've have fans get hurt by guardrails, and I've watched wrestlers get sued and have to go to court over stuff from shows. Running a show is not joke, if something terrible happen it is on you. If you don't have an LLC, you could lose your house or anything else you might have worked hard for.
----
This is just some bare bones stuff I figured people who share in the dream I had would enjoy learning and reading about. These are guidlines, not rules. Every show is different. Sometime you'll want to secure talent while booking the venue. For example no reason to book a Baseball Stadium if you're not sure if you can secure a big enough name to fill it. But, you rarely see huge venues with nobody booked, you usually see modest venues overbooked.
Well, I've run good shows and bad shows. I've worked and attended good shows and bad shows. I figure since I'm bored I'll put together a list of different thing I've learned and rules of thumb when running a show.
1) Book the VENUE, then the show.
- Seems like a no-brainer, but lots of people fall into this trap. The venue can make or break your show BEFORE you book a single worker. I've personally only lost BIG money on one show, and it was because of this mistake. The parking was horrible and the area wasn't the best. We drew 500-600+ for this show, but I was shooting for 1k. As far as I know every show that has run that venue since has failed. It used to be ok years ago, but the neighborhood has one downhill in the past 20 years, and most people learned not to go there.
- Venues have hidden costs. You might need to rent chairs. You might need to get event insurance specifically to sign the venue contract. So many different variables come into play that you NEED to know exactly how much the venue will cost BEFORE you do ANYTHING else. Speaking again from the show I lost money on, not only did I agree to pay WAAAY to much for the rental, I also was creamed by insurance costs and the cost of renting chairs and tables. In the grand scheme of things chairs won't run you too too much, but renting 200 chairs isn't free and will change the budget.
2) Once you book the venue, quickly book the RING if you haven't already!
- Another no brainer, but a reliable ring crew and a good ring are essential. No ring, no show. Late ring, late show. I've rented all different rings. If you want a cage match, find a ring crew that has a proper cage to fit the ring you will be using that night. You'd be surprised how long it can take to set up and take down a cage. Most of the time I would let the crew I'm using know ALL my future dates so I can secure them for every show.
- Rings are different sizes. Different crews have different stuff. I've used crews with JUST the ring. I've used crews with ring, rails, music and entryway. The size of the ring will determine how many floor seats you are selling. If it's a larger ring, that means more front row seats which could be a good thing depending on who you end up booking.
3) Venue? Check! Ring? Check! Now what? It's time to take another look at the budget.
- Ok, now it's impossible to do all this work without an idea of who you want on the show. You have to look at everything realistically. If your venue can hold 400, that means you're hopefully making about 5k if your GA tickets are around $10 BEFORE paying ANYTHING. That is in a perfect world. Overbooking a show will lose money and if it doesn't you'll be making less.
- I always tried to make sure the costs of "name" guys wasn't more than what I would make by selling out the front row. For example, you book Hacksaw Jim Duggan for 1k, you fly him in and get him a hotel for total you're at like 1500. If I charge $20 for front row, I'm at about 1600 if I can squeeze 80 seats in. That is a good start. Now if you can push to sell out front row, you know you'll be able to pay your top "draw". If you are paying a lot of money to somebody who you don't think will draw what you are paying, don't book them. You might find yourself looking like a jackass.
4) Venue, Ring, and Top Draw(s) booked...now what? PROMOTE! PROMOTE! PROMOTE!
- I don't care if it's flyering, calling local papers, or scouring for sponsors. This is what will make or break your show. Internet promoting means very little. You'll make more money if 100 people down the street from the venue know about the show than 1000 people online.
- If you don't want to make it your job to promote the show you are doing a disservice to youself and everybody working for you. Running a show is about making money. If that isn't your first priority you won't last very long. Sure most of us get into it because we're fans, but that ends once your neck is on the line. Remember you can be sued if something goes wrong. I've had health departments call me. I've have fans get hurt by guardrails, and I've watched wrestlers get sued and have to go to court over stuff from shows. Running a show is not joke, if something terrible happen it is on you. If you don't have an LLC, you could lose your house or anything else you might have worked hard for.
----
This is just some bare bones stuff I figured people who share in the dream I had would enjoy learning and reading about. These are guidlines, not rules. Every show is different. Sometime you'll want to secure talent while booking the venue. For example no reason to book a Baseball Stadium if you're not sure if you can secure a big enough name to fill it. But, you rarely see huge venues with nobody booked, you usually see modest venues overbooked.
