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Post by rybackrulez on Aug 2, 2013 11:56:55 GMT -5
I have been a wrestling fan since birth. My favorite era was the new generation because i liked diesel. WWE has not altered history nor do they ever need to put out a Benoit compilation. You know why? Youtube, daily motion, google video. Torrents. You want to watch and relive benoit's best moments do so using websites where his stuff is uploaded to. WWE does not have to cater to your "completionist" thought when it comes to benoit. Hell some people sell benoit comps on ebay. WWE will never dare try to make money off his name. So then you're advocating piracy, gotcha. See, I'd rather not have to break the law and deal with VHS quality rips because they can't slip a Benoit match on a DVD. There's a distinct difference between what I'm saying and what you're arguing against. If WWE made, let's say a Booker T DVD, and on said Booker T DVD they threw in his match against Benoit at Armageddon 2005. Now, every other match on the set is a Booker T match one just happens to feature Benoit, that's not making money off his name, that's promoting a DVD as "Here's some Booker T!" and Benoit just happens to be there. That's making money off Booker T and it's no different that including him in other DVD sets. Piracy? Meh. You wanted to see all benoit matches all the time. Go to ebay get benoit compilations. WWE won't put the best of seven on dvd because benoit is a murderer. The only way for you to deal with it, is buying his matches on those dvd comps or watching on youtube. So do that. WWE is not the bad guy or distorting history by refusing to promote and glorify Benoit. Jeez I just reallized you are dragging me down the benoit topic route. Reallize wwe will never do it and why. Get your Benoit fix on youtube/dvd compilations as that will be the only way. Hell you say i want to see this benoit match, look it up online and watch it for free. Nobody will judge you pr report you to send you to jail.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,286
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Post by The Ichi on Aug 2, 2013 12:00:30 GMT -5
I don't think you can claim he had "no control of his actions". He was wrestling on the active roster without a hitch, and by all accounts his colleagues (most of them at least) didn't notice any "off" behaviour.
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
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Post by Hawk Hart on Aug 2, 2013 12:08:57 GMT -5
So then you're advocating piracy, gotcha. See, I'd rather not have to break the law and deal with VHS quality rips because they can't slip a Benoit match on a DVD. There's a distinct difference between what I'm saying and what you're arguing against. If WWE made, let's say a Booker T DVD, and on said Booker T DVD they threw in his match against Benoit at Armageddon 2005. Now, every other match on the set is a Booker T match one just happens to feature Benoit, that's not making money off his name, that's promoting a DVD as "Here's some Booker T!" and Benoit just happens to be there. That's making money off Booker T and it's no different that including him in other DVD sets. Piracy? Meh. You wanted to see all benoit matches all the time. Go to ebay get benoit compilations. WWE won't put the best of seven on dvd because benoit is a murderer. The only way for you to deal with it, is buying his matches on those dvd comps or watching on youtube. So do that. WWE is not the bad guy or distorting history by refusing to promote and glorify Benoit. Once again, you're arguing against things I haven't even said. I didn't I wanted "all Benoit matches, all the time", I just don't see how it would hurt if once every 5-10 DVDs we got a Benoit match. You said they show clips of him losing, well then put in matches that he's lost, it's the Director's Cut of what they're already doing. I didn't ask for the whole best of seven, I was using a hypothetical to clarify my point, a fact that seems entirely lost on this thread in more ways than one. And yes, they are in fact distorting history by removing him from it. I've never, EVER said that they should "promote and glorify" Benoit, I don't think he should ever see the Hall of Fame and I've never even once asked for a solo DVD release but Chris Benoit is not the only person ever. History is bigger than individuals and in the grand scheme of things that's all Benoit is, an individual, an awful, dark individual but saying we should all pretend Chris Benoit didn't ever exist is like trying to erase Saddam Hussein from the history books (albeit on a much smaller scale). Yes, there were some people killed but pretending it never happened doesn't make it any less terrible. If he can be included on match compilations and the Summerslam anthology then he can occasionally have a match on another superstar's career retrospective disc. Randy Orton is being pushed by WWE as one of the greatest they've produced in the last ten years and that all goes back to him pinning Chris Benoit at Summerslam 2004. Remove all the positive things they say about Benoit on commentary if you want but don't try and act like the matches never happened.
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Post by The Last Hero on Aug 2, 2013 12:10:48 GMT -5
A severely brain damaged man who abused steroids. A guy who clearly needed help and no one knew. Benoit was my favorite wrestler and sometimes the reason I tuned in, it makes me sick now knowing that some of the things he did in the ring that made him my favorite probably contributed to his injuries. It's what made me quit watching wrestling for a few years. I just hope that he is used as a cautionary tale and that something like this never has a chance to happen again.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
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Post by Sephiroth on Aug 2, 2013 12:11:35 GMT -5
I make no excuses for what Benoit did-there is no one to blame for that but himself. But I also don't buy the whole scenario of him just randomly snapping. Everything I have read about the man paints the image of a person who wore himself down emotionally on a daily basis with compulsive, control freak tendencies. This was enhanced by the effects of brain damage and drugs such as steroids and pain killers. People close to Benoit remarked that he became increasingly paranoid toward the end of his life-a sign of someone slowly sliding downward emotionally and mentally. I tend to think he had probably had such dark intentions on his mind for a while. I will agree that some stress was what finally caused him to act on it, but that does not equate just snapping randomly. I might add that people who were close to Benoit such as Jericho or Dean Malenko have remarked that while they condemn what he did they still value their memories of him and the friendship he gave them. I suspect that Benoit's many fans prefer to try to remember him for what he was during his life, rather than what he ultimately became at the end of it. Not everyone is going to agree, but it is definitely better than dwelling on his horrid final actions. And as far as WWE goes-its not so much that fans want to see him promoted actively, so much as they would like to WWE to at least acknowledge his existence. He was a fixture of the Monday Night Wars era and no amount of video editing will erase that. They don't have to apologize for his actions, but they can't simply ignore his existence either. I would say WWE has done a fair job of handling that by simply avoiding any mention of him as much as possible but still keeping his name on official record. I don't expect to ever see him in the HOF, but we may eventually start to see his matches on DVD's and WWE 24/7.
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Post by rybackrulez on Aug 2, 2013 12:13:35 GMT -5
It was more of a crime of passion and more along the line of
"dad goes nuts kills family then self"
Then, wrestler with brain damage kills family because of brain damage.
Guy had a match with elijah burke on tv and was on the road. Got home, killed family, then himself.
It wasn't the brain damage or pcs. Otherwise bret hart and other former wrestlers/boxers/football players would do the same.
Concussions do make people more irrational like Junior Seau, who killed himself and various other football players. But there is a myriad of reasons why people do what they do.
He wrestled matches. Drove and flew home. Went to the doctor and took pictures with fans.
Then he went home and killed his family. Because something happened. He gets as much flack as all other fathers who kill their family then themselves. Which happens a lot. He isn't a special case.
Eh, wwe won't put a match on dvd pushing a guy, hell he wasn't brought up at all on orton's, angle's or jericho's dvds. Plus angle's dvd was made by tna so he wasn't under the wwe microscope so yeah. You want benoit discussion from jericho or booker listen to their shoots.
It was odd seeing benoit on the elimination chamber and war games discs, so they are going that way with him. Maybe a segment on booker's dvd.
But eh, they don't really have to say mor than what they already said. So eh.
Look the w
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Aug 2, 2013 12:14:33 GMT -5
I don't think you can claim he had "no control of his actions". He was wrestling on the active roster without a hitch, and by all accounts his colleagues (most of them at least) didn't notice any "off" behaviour. Exactly. This is a situation where none of us knew the guy personally, but people will say "he wouldn't have done this if ____". I mean, how do we know? A lot of people who murder usually appall their friends and family when it happens because they didn't see it coming. I don't think any of us can chalk everything up to brain damage, especially when he had a history of domestic abuse.
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DIIV
ALF
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Post by DIIV on Aug 2, 2013 12:25:09 GMT -5
Who cares??
? ?? ?
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Aug 2, 2013 12:27:08 GMT -5
Benoit was my favorite wrestler but since then I've only watched one match of his since (TLC3 mainly because he wasn't in it alot so I could stomach it). I just can't separate what he did with his work. I don't want to and no matter how many great matches he's had or moments he's had I don't think I'm alone in that feeling.
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
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Post by Hawk Hart on Aug 2, 2013 12:31:21 GMT -5
Benoit was my favorite wrestler but since then I've only watched one match of his since (TLC3 mainly because he wasn't in it alot so I could stomach it). I just can't separate what he did with his work. I don't want to and no matter how many great matches he's had or moments he's had I don't think I'm alone in that feeling. And that's why DVD players feature a "skip chapter" function. You have the choice to not watch a match if you don't want to and I can completely understand and respect that point of view, I just don't like having the choice to watch them taken away from me.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Aug 2, 2013 12:37:11 GMT -5
Benoit was my favorite wrestler but since then I've only watched one match of his since (TLC3 mainly because he wasn't in it alot so I could stomach it). I just can't separate what he did with his work. I don't want to and no matter how many great matches he's had or moments he's had I don't think I'm alone in that feeling. And that's why DVD players feature a "skip chapter" function. You have the choice to not watch a match if you don't want to and I can completely understand and respect that point of view, I just don't like having the choice to watch them taken away from me. But its also a business. And the WWE feels that the PR hit plus the amount of people who won't buy a DVD comp where they had to choose to put a Benoit match in there is not worth the money they would make from the subset of fans that want a Benoit match.
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Nikki Heyman
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Aug 2, 2013 12:42:46 GMT -5
Benoit was my favorite wrestler but since then I've only watched one match of his since (TLC3 mainly because he wasn't in it alot so I could stomach it). I just can't separate what he did with his work. I don't want to and no matter how many great matches he's had or moments he's had I don't think I'm alone in that feeling. And that's why DVD players feature a "skip chapter" function. You have the choice to not watch a match if you don't want to and I can completely understand and respect that point of view, I just don't like having the choice to watch them taken away from me. This is what I'm looking for - I may be in the minority, but I don't purchase a lot of WWE DVDs anymore if they're from around Benoit's time and he is NOT included. I didn't buy the RR compilation because I was afraid they wouldn't put 2004 in there. I didn't by the "Satan's Prison" DVD because they altered the commentary. I bought both WWE Encyclopedias because he WAS in there, and they were at least respectful of him despite his crime. What he did was inexcuseable, unpardonable, etc. BUT HE EXISTED. WWE should take solace in the fact that what he did was (to some extent) out of their control, but they cannot be totally held blameless. WWE wants to be sticklers about "History" but retconning someone out of existance is almost as bad as murder imo.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2013 13:30:52 GMT -5
I fell in love with pro wrestling by watching TLC 3 the night it happened. It was in Anaheim and I was so jealous that it was all happening less than an hour away from my house. Throughout my fandom I've only owned two wrestling posters on my wall: Benoit and Guerrero. Benoit turned me off of wrestling for a while and I was seriously torn up about the whole thing just from a 'wtf' standpoint.
That being said, I still enjoy watching Benoit matches. Not something I can explain; I just don't feel bad about it anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2013 13:35:00 GMT -5
The Benoit thing is...It sounds so callous when I say it but I just don't care. I don't care about wrestler's personal lives, I care about what's on my TV.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2013 13:41:46 GMT -5
I'll never buy the brain damage theory as the sole cause of the murders. If his brain was that destroyed he wouldn't have been able to deal with the constant travel, cutting promos, putting together and having good matches. Nor would he have called the WWE office with some lameassed story about why he missed the shows that weekend. Dude knew exactly what he did. Was brain damage a contributing factor? Most likely, but honestly it was probably just an argument that got out of hand and Benoit lost it and killed Nancy. I'll never understand why he killed Daniel though.
A great wrestler but that is but a drop in the ocean compared to the lives of Nancy and Daniel.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 2, 2013 13:48:42 GMT -5
Murder goes a little beyond mere "personal demons", and no, it's not emotion. It's a rational judgement of what matters more, raping and murdering people, or being a good film director or wrestler. Personally, I think the former overshadows the latter. It's one thing to acknowledge that professionally they were talented, it's quite another to give them special recognition via awards or honours. I'm sorry, you seem to think I'm advocating for him to go into the Hall of Fame which isn't the case at all. I just want them to pretend for a little while that he was actually someone who existed. And are you calling me irrational because I don't have the same hatred everyone else seems to have? I'm sorry if my sociopathy means I don't have the same "rational judgment" skills that you have, I kinda can't help that. That's not what I implied. My point was that considering murder to eclipse Benoit's wrestling accomplishments isn't based on emotion, but rather rationality, meaning a reasoned assessment of the situation.
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Post by rybackrulez on Aug 2, 2013 13:55:43 GMT -5
Not mentioning him is not akin to murder
You want benoit? You know how to get your fix
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Aug 2, 2013 14:00:06 GMT -5
Not mentioning him is not akin to murder You want benoit? You know how to get your fix Ya know, being a condescending, flat out jerk isn't helping you make your point. Stop referring to those of us that can watch Benoit like we're drug addicts and morons.
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8.2.11/SAVIOR_NEZ
Don Corleone
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Posts: 1,534
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Post by 8.2.11/SAVIOR_NEZ on Aug 2, 2013 14:17:57 GMT -5
I actually have an answer to the OP's initial question. Earlier this year, I watched Wrestlemania 23, and JBL actually did refer to Chris Benoit as a "future hall-of-famer" during his commentary for the match. Scary to think these comments were less than three months away from that weekend that would ensure that Benoit would never, and should never, be inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame.
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Post by BorneAgain on Aug 2, 2013 14:20:43 GMT -5
Isn't Benoit still technically in the Observer Hall of Fame?
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