|
Post by rapidfire187 on Aug 2, 2013 10:23:29 GMT -5
Did JR or any other commentator ever refer to Benoit as a "future hall of famer?"
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Aug 2, 2013 10:28:42 GMT -5
I'm sure it might have happened. There are wrestling fans even today who think he's worthy of it. I try to remind them that he's a double murderer, but they never seem to understand why that's a problem.
|
|
Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
|
Post by Hawk Hart on Aug 2, 2013 10:35:39 GMT -5
I'm sure it might have happened. There are wrestling fans even today who think he's worthy of it. I try to remind them that he's a double murderer, but they never seem to understand why that's a problem. It's the same reason people enjoy Roman Polanski flicks to this day, personal stuff doesn't matter in the professional realm to some people. I happen to be one of those people but I can see why others let their emotions dictate stuff.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Aug 2, 2013 10:37:32 GMT -5
I'm sure it might have happened. There are wrestling fans even today who think he's worthy of it. I try to remind them that he's a double murderer, but they never seem to understand why that's a problem. It's the same reason people enjoy Roman Polanski flicks to this day, personal stuff doesn't matter in the professional realm to some people. I happen to be one of those people but I can see why others let their emotions dictate stuff. It's not really emotion but rather an opinion that being a good filmmaker, or a good wrestler, pales in comparison to being a rapist, or a murderer, and thus praising a person for their professional accomplishments cannot be taken in isolation if they've committed terrible crimes.
|
|
Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,900
|
Post by Sephiroth on Aug 2, 2013 10:39:59 GMT -5
The inducted Jimmy Snuka, who killed one of his girlfriends.
|
|
Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
|
Post by Hawk Hart on Aug 2, 2013 10:46:00 GMT -5
It's the same reason people enjoy Roman Polanski flicks to this day, personal stuff doesn't matter in the professional realm to some people. I happen to be one of those people but I can see why others let their emotions dictate stuff. It's not really emotion but rather an opinion that being a good filmmaker, or a good wrestler, pales in comparison to being a rapist, or a murderer, and thus praising a person for their professional accomplishments cannot be taken in isolation if they've committed terrible crimes. An opinion formed by emotional, visceral response to their actions. In spite of what happened, I still consider Chris Benoit one of the finest wrestlers to step foot in a ring. I'm not going to boycott Volkswagens because they were designed for one of history's greatest monsters, I'm not going to deny the contributions that Chris Benoit made to the wrestling business because of what happened. I'm not condoning it but I'm saying don't let personal demons cloud professional accomplishment.
|
|
|
Post by rybackrulez on Aug 2, 2013 10:46:41 GMT -5
Never convicted
Also never went to trial
Never charged with murder Benoit killed his wife and son then himself
Piece of crap is what benoit is
With a Hall of Fame, i is a pr move showing that wwe appreciates its wrestlers and to the wrestlers it is a crowning achievement for them.
With Benoit, I mean great he had good matches. Whatever. But what he did reflected so negatively on wrestling and was a black mark on pro wrestling. Any good he accomplished for wrestling was flushed down the toilet by what he did.
|
|
amaron
Samurai Cop
I yam what I yam.
Posts: 2,212
|
Post by amaron on Aug 2, 2013 10:49:54 GMT -5
The inducted Jimmy Snuka, who killed one of his girlfriends. OJ Simpson beat his wife, was found responsible for her murder in a civil trial, was convicted of armed robbery and kidnapping, but is still in the football HOF. I guess the only difference is that Benoit was still an active wrestler when it happened.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Aug 2, 2013 10:58:53 GMT -5
It's not really emotion but rather an opinion that being a good filmmaker, or a good wrestler, pales in comparison to being a rapist, or a murderer, and thus praising a person for their professional accomplishments cannot be taken in isolation if they've committed terrible crimes. An opinion formed by emotional, visceral response to their actions. In spite of what happened, I still consider Chris Benoit one of the finest wrestlers to step foot in a ring. I'm not going to boycott Volkswagens because they were designed for one of history's greatest monsters, I'm not going to deny the contributions that Chris Benoit made to the wrestling business because of what happened. I'm not condoning it but I'm saying don't let personal demons cloud professional accomplishment. Murder goes a little beyond mere "personal demons", and no, it's not emotion. It's a rational judgement of what matters more, raping and murdering people, or being a good film director or wrestler. Personally, I think the former overshadows the latter. It's one thing to acknowledge that professionally they were talented, it's quite another to give them special recognition via awards or honours.
|
|
|
Post by bigjoshoncampus on Aug 2, 2013 11:01:42 GMT -5
The inducted Jimmy Snuka, who killed one of his girlfriends. OJ Simpson beat his wife, was found responsible for her murder in a civil trial, was convicted of armed robbery and kidnapping, but is still in the football HOF. I guess the only difference is that Benoit was still an active wrestler when it happened. Another big difference is that Juice did all of those things AFTER his induction to the Hall of Fame (1985). If say LaDainian Tomlinson committed some heinous crime between now and 2017 (when he's eligible for the HOF), I'd wager good money that the writers would not put him in.
|
|
Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
|
Post by Hawk Hart on Aug 2, 2013 11:06:20 GMT -5
An opinion formed by emotional, visceral response to their actions. In spite of what happened, I still consider Chris Benoit one of the finest wrestlers to step foot in a ring. I'm not going to boycott Volkswagens because they were designed for one of history's greatest monsters, I'm not going to deny the contributions that Chris Benoit made to the wrestling business because of what happened. I'm not condoning it but I'm saying don't let personal demons cloud professional accomplishment. Murder goes a little beyond mere "personal demons", and no, it's not emotion. It's a rational judgement of what matters more, raping and murdering people, or being a good film director or wrestler. Personally, I think the former overshadows the latter. It's one thing to acknowledge that professionally they were talented, it's quite another to give them special recognition via awards or honours. I'm sorry, you seem to think I'm advocating for him to go into the Hall of Fame which isn't the case at all. I just want them to pretend for a little while that he was actually someone who existed. And are you calling me irrational because I don't have the same hatred everyone else seems to have? I'm sorry if my sociopathy means I don't have the same "rational judgment" skills that you have, I kinda can't help that. Oh, and "personal demons" is writer's code for "I don't want to keep saying the same words over and over again, let's get some flavor in here." That's not really relevant to the discussion but since you picked my word choice specifically then I think I should note.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2013 11:14:57 GMT -5
Chris Benoit's greatest contribution to the wrestling industry was the increased emphasis on safety and wellness caused by his death.
In a case of glorifying the inductee, it'd make more sense to induct Chris Nowinski.
|
|
|
Post by rybackrulez on Aug 2, 2013 11:19:32 GMT -5
They won't acknowledge or ever have to acknowledge his existence
He will be in a match compilation or be shown in clips losing, or in ppv collections
Benoit had his dvd, monday night wars, and the horsemen dvd.
They rarely acknowledge past wrestlers beyond cena promos. They have Bret Hart, HBK, Rey Mysterio and Eddie Guerrero to mention on tv as far as smaller world champs.
They compare Tyson Kidd to Dynamite Kid on commentary all the time.
The crossface gets used.
Benoit is in the WWE Encyclopedia
Why does wwe need to acknowledge him? He isn't hulk hogan, randy savage, or even british bulldog levels of iconic.
|
|
wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
|
Post by wisdomwizard on Aug 2, 2013 11:20:14 GMT -5
Roman Polanski was one thing, he was in full control of his actions. But I don't regard Benoit as some unrepentant beast because his brain was swiss cheese. I don't believe for a moment he would have done what he did if he didn't go through all those concussions, and/or if something like WWE's Wellness Policy was already in place in WCW and WWE. What happened was the tragic result of an undiagnosed mental condition combined with the grief over Eddy's passing.
That said, I also don't think they're wrong to not put him into the Hall of Fame or continue to retcon him.
|
|
Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,900
|
Post by Sephiroth on Aug 2, 2013 11:22:48 GMT -5
Benoit was not only still active, he was a much loved icon to fans who represented hard work, dedication, and sheer, raw talent. To learn that he was really a deeply troubled, even disturbed man capable of such a brutal act was heartbreaking for many because it shattered the idealized image of him they had built-and it was all the more troubling to realize those very traits that caused people to idealize him likely played a heavy role in his physical, emotional, and mental disintegration.
|
|
|
Post by rybackrulez on Aug 2, 2013 11:27:20 GMT -5
He was in control. He systematically beat Woman, then suffocated her to death with a pillow case and wrapping a cord around her neck. Then suffocated his son.
He is no better than ALL the other dads who have shot their family members and then turn the gun on themselves.
This happens A LOT. Dad loses his shit one day amd decides to kill his entire family and then himself.
Should those guys also be seen as not in control of their actions. I am sure they had something wrong with them too.
It is like Benoit gets a pass from people, but joe smith killing his family and then himself gets crap.
Same shit, except the way Benoit did it was more brutal as he used his bare hands.
If he didn't kill himself, he would be rotting in jail. Getting love letters from his marks.
|
|
Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
|
Post by Hawk Hart on Aug 2, 2013 11:38:45 GMT -5
They won't acknowledge or ever have to acknowledge his existence Which sucks because... ...he was in a lot more matches like that. We didn't get any of his great matches with Jericho, we've been denied most of his career past 2004 meaning there's a bunch of really fantastic stuff completely lost to time. Not only that, his early work, which shaped a lot of wrestlers in the next generation, is never to be seen again because WWE didn't have the idea to make serious WCW DVDs until after 2007. Once again, Benoit's DVD came in 2004, there's a pretty big chunk of stuff missing just because he was active for another three years following the release. We know what happened at the end of those three years but there were still great matches in that match. Monday Night Wars had one Benoit match (which is a great one, don't get me wrong) but the Horsemen DVD has zero. The big difference being that we still get to see their matches. Benoit's also excluded from the Royal Rumble stat rundowns every single year. Like it or not, he won from the number one spot and that's damned impressive. Dynamite Kid, who used to wake his wife up by dry firing a pistol at her face and is not Chris Benoit. I'm not saying they're wrong for referencing Dynamite but it's not exactly setting a shining example to reference the demented personal hero of the murderer you refuse to mention WWE. The weakest of all points. The Crossface was created by Dean Malenko who is(was?) a road agent for WWE, plus it's a pretty basic submission move. Combine those facts and it's bound to turn up in matches with dudes that don't really have submissions that need a submission spot. IIRC, Shawn Michaels was the first to start using it again after the Benoit incident when he was feuding with Randy Orton and that was a few months later. Since then, Triple H, John Cena, and, most famously, Daniel Bryan have all used the move; it's all been an aggressive rebranding campaign by WWE to whitewash the history of the move. Name six people you know that own that. I can list every single W/WWF/E champion in order from the start, with title changes and relevant storyline information, and even I don't own it. I'm not saying it doesn't count, I'm just saying that not many people know of it. See other points. I'm a huge, HUGE wrestling nerd and I admit it. I own well over two hundred VHS, DVD, and Blu Rays from assorted companies and time periods and I've devoted most of the last fifteen years of my life learning everything I can about the business because I'm that much of a freak for this stuff, I hate to see history get mangled regardless of who it involves.
|
|
|
Post by rybackrulez on Aug 2, 2013 11:44:19 GMT -5
I have been a wrestling fan since birth. My favorite era was the new generation because i liked diesel.
WWE has not altered history nor do they ever need to put out a Benoit compilation.
You know why? Youtube, daily motion, google video. Torrents.
You want to watch and relive benoit's best moments do so using websites where his stuff is uploaded to.
WWE does not have to cater to your "completionist" thought when it comes to benoit. Hell some people sell benoit comps on ebay.
WWE will never dare try to make money off his name.
You are complaing about what? Wwe doesn't make yokozuna dvd or refer to past wrestlers often. Who cares about who wwe chooses to reference or put out dvds for. Your arguments suck and sound more like "i want wwe to put him over"
Wwe acknowledges his existence in title histories, dvd sets, and in their wwe encyclopedia.
WWE could have erased him from their history, but they chose not to. Instead they ignore and will continue to ignore Benoit. You have fan made dvd comps and youtube to get your benoit fix dude.
Deal with it.
What do the Benoit apologists really want from wwe? Yearly benoit tributes, saying he was best ever? They don't need to say shit to glorify him and make you feel better about being his fan. Be his fan, watch all his stuff in youtube, fan made dvd comps, and all that. WWE will never cater to the benoit marks.
|
|
Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
|
Post by Hawk Hart on Aug 2, 2013 11:50:21 GMT -5
I have been a wrestling fan since birth. My favorite era was the new generation because i liked diesel. WWE has not altered history nor do they ever need to put out a Benoit compilation. You know why? Youtube, daily motion, google video. Torrents. You want to watch and relive benoit's best moments do so using websites where his stuff is uploaded to. WWE does not have to cater to your "completionist" thought when it comes to benoit. Hell some people sell benoit comps on ebay. WWE will never dare try to make money off his name. So then you're advocating piracy, gotcha. See, I'd rather not have to break the law and deal with VHS quality rips because they can't slip a Benoit match on a DVD. There's a distinct difference between what I'm saying and what you're arguing against. If WWE made, let's say a Booker T DVD, and on said Booker T DVD they threw in his match against Benoit at Armageddon 2005. Now, every other match on the set is a Booker T match one just happens to feature Benoit, that's not making money off his name, that's promoting a DVD as "Here's some Booker T!" and Benoit just happens to be there. That's making money off Booker T and it's no different that including him in other DVD sets.
|
|
|
Post by The Baltimore Staircase on Aug 2, 2013 11:52:03 GMT -5
It's unfair to expect the WWE to promote Chris Benoit, a double murderer.
|
|