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Post by rapidfire187 on Aug 2, 2013 14:36:35 GMT -5
Wow. I should have, but didn't expect this much debate. For the record, I wasn't suggesting he should be in the HOF. I was just watching some older stuff and I heard people like Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar called future all time greats.
The thing about hyping someone as a future hall of famer is that you really have no idea how that person's life is going to go.
Is there any level of fame and hype that could make WWE overlook a murder? Like, would they stop showing Hulk Hogan footage if he did the same thing?
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Aug 2, 2013 14:45:06 GMT -5
WWE wants to be sticklers about "History" but retconning someone out of existance is almost as bad as murder imo.   Benoit killed his wife. Waited a day and then killed his own single-digit aged song. Waited a day, CHANGED HIS PLANE TICKETS SO, IF HE WANTED TO, HE COULD STILL WRESTLE ONE LAST MATCH, and then killed himself with extra cushioning around his neck so it wouldn't hurt. It's one of the most grizzly high-profile murders of the past decade. Dude doesn't deserve to exist. Don't blame the WWE for that call, blame Benoit.  |
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Nikki Heyman
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Aug 2, 2013 14:49:09 GMT -5
WWE wants to be sticklers about "History" but retconning someone out of existance is almost as bad as murder imo. Benoit killed his wife. Waited a day and then killed his own single-digit aged song. Waited a day, CHANGED HIS PLANE TICKETS SO, IF HE WANTED TO, HE COULD STILL WRESTLE ONE LAST MATCH, and then killed himself with extra cushioning around his neck so it wouldn't hurt. It's one of the most grizzly high-profile murders of the past decade. Dude doesn't deserve to exist. Don't blame the WWE for that call, blame Benoit. So you would also accept Vince McMahon playing God and declaring that Chris Benoit didn't exist? I'd hate to be in your history class where all the bad guys aren't talked about DESPITE the good that they did before they went crazy.... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2013 14:51:37 GMT -5
Isn't Benoit still technically in the Observer Hall of Fame? I think that they did a re-vote and he somehow got enough votes to stay in. |
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Eunös ✈
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Post by Eunös ✈ on Aug 2, 2013 14:56:52 GMT -5
The one I remember was when Benoit wrestled Triple H during the Eddie Guerrero tribute show (May have been Smackdown)
After the match Tazz said something like "We have 2 future hall of famers paying tribute to another future hall of famer"
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Post by gnr123 on Aug 2, 2013 15:02:00 GMT -5
WWE wants to be sticklers about "History" but retconning someone out of existance is almost as bad as murder imo. Benoit killed his wife. Waited a day and then killed his own single-digit aged song. Waited a day, CHANGED HIS PLANE TICKETS SO, IF HE WANTED TO, HE COULD STILL WRESTLE ONE LAST MATCH, and then killed himself with extra cushioning around his neck so it wouldn't hurt. It's one of the most grizzly high-profile murders of the past decade. Dude doesn't deserve to exist. Don't blame the WWE for that call, blame Benoit.
Exactly. The fact that people are surprised or angry that WWE doesn't promote or mention Chris Benoit is sad. What he did put a monstrous black mark on the entire professional wrestling business and the WWE. It was a dark day for wrestling and no matter how much people try to twist it, it happened and the WWE has every right to act like he doesn't exist. It was a tragedy, and the WWE doesn't have to support or promote a murderer, much less a man who killed his own child. Sure, there might have been brain damage, but he did what he did and there's no changing that. |
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BigJerichool222
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Post by BigJerichool222 on Aug 2, 2013 15:04:13 GMT -5
Exactly. The fact that people are surprised or angry that WWE doesn't promote or mention Chris Benoit is sad. What he did put a monstrous black mark on the entire professional wrestling business and the WWE. It was a dark day for wrestling and no matter how much people try to twist it, it happened and the WWE has every right to act like he doesn't exist. It was a tragedy, and the WWE doesn't have to support or promote a murderer, much less a man who killed his own child. Sure, there might have been brain damage, but he did what he did and there's no changing that. But....but he did a really good German Suplex!  HE WAS 4 REAL |
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Post by gnr123 on Aug 2, 2013 15:06:27 GMT -5
Exactly. The fact that people are surprised or angry that WWE doesn't promote or mention Chris Benoit is sad. What he did put a monstrous black mark on the entire professional wrestling business and the WWE. It was a dark day for wrestling and no matter how much people try to twist it, it happened and the WWE has every right to act like he doesn't exist. It was a tragedy, and the WWE doesn't have to support or promote a murderer, much less a man who killed his own child. Sure, there might have been brain damage, but he did what he did and there's no changing that. But....but he did a really good German Suplex! HE WAS 4 REAL The sad thing is there are people out there who actually think like that. |
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Post by canceled4truth on Aug 2, 2013 15:08:22 GMT -5
While I don't think WWE should completely erase him from history, I don't fault them at all for doing so.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Aug 2, 2013 15:10:45 GMT -5
Benoit killed his wife. Waited a day and then killed his own single-digit aged song. Waited a day, CHANGED HIS PLANE TICKETS SO, IF HE WANTED TO, HE COULD STILL WRESTLE ONE LAST MATCH, and then killed himself with extra cushioning around his neck so it wouldn't hurt. It's one of the most grizzly high-profile murders of the past decade. Dude doesn't deserve to exist. Don't blame the WWE for that call, blame Benoit. So you would also accept Vince McMahon playing God and declaring that Chris Benoit didn't exist? I'd hate to be in your history class where all the bad guys aren't talked about DESPITE the good that they did before they went crazy.... It's a f***ing wrestling-based entertainment company. I'd hate to be your child if you equated my death with misplacing one of your wrestling DVDs. |
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Perd
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Post by Perd on Aug 2, 2013 15:17:08 GMT -5
He was on his way to being a hall of faker, but he choked.
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Post by #Classic Hi-Definition X on Aug 2, 2013 15:23:48 GMT -5
Settle down, guys.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Aug 2, 2013 15:25:26 GMT -5
I hate the judgement some people deliver if someone says they still like watching Benoit. Yes, I understand why some people cannot, however that doesn't make them party to his actions. If someone still likes Micheal Jackson does that mean that they too think its ok to have a child accurately describe their penis in court? If you like Mike Tyson do you support what he did when he was younger? History is littered with great men with darker sides. How many founding fathers owned slaves? How many celebrated rulers have genocide on their hands? I may not like slavery and forced sex but still love to read up on Thomas Jefferson. However, I can understand if some people can't overlook the bad, but I won't be judged by them, because I have NEVER met any of these judgemental people who didn't have some hero or idol that they themselves overlook the darker side of.
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Nikki Heyman
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Aug 2, 2013 15:43:26 GMT -5
So you would also accept Vince McMahon playing God and declaring that Chris Benoit didn't exist? I'd hate to be in your history class where all the bad guys aren't talked about DESPITE the good that they did before they went crazy.... It's a f***ing wrestling-based entertainment company. I'd hate to be your child if you equated my death with misplacing one of your wrestling DVDs. Please show me where I actually SAID that. All I said was I vote with my wallet and would by DVDs before everything happened so that my child could see the TRUTH about a good wrestler whose entire life is overshadowed by "ZOMG MURDERER". IF WWE had half of the medical arrangments in place in 2005, none of this would have happened. However, the wrestling business has always been a "macho" business (no disrespect to Randy Savage). IF you were hurt, suck it up and get back in the ring. Benoit was trained by one of the toughest teachers in Canada and wrestled in Japan. They didn't care if he was hurt and would be seen as "weak" if he said something. Since you guys are all "ZOMG MURDERER" you forget that he wrestled with a broken neck for a couple of months after it happened - and did it in such a manner that several other wrestlers were unaware. Benoit at least finally got the surgery he needed before he looked like Paul Orndorf. You also forget how many OTHER people close to him in his life were lost between 2005-2007. The most important to him was Eddie. Chris NEVER got over it, and figured if he kept working he would, eventually. You carry something like that inside long enough and it's bound to explode - and in Benoit's case it happened in the worst way possible. Again, I HAVE NEVER CONDONED WHAT HE DID IN HAS LAST DAYS ON EARTH. But, if you want to use that logic, sure, let's erase EVERY SINGLE MURDERER that ever existed. Make for an easy history class with no lessons learned. |
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Aug 2, 2013 15:52:54 GMT -5
It's a f***ing wrestling-based entertainment company. I'd hate to be your child if you equated my death with misplacing one of your wrestling DVDs. Please show me where I actually SAID that. Right here: WWE wants to be sticklers about "History" but retconning someone out of existance is almost as bad as murder imo. WWE's just not trying to profit off of or glorify the name/contirbutions of someone who murdered their own child. Can you not process how an entertainment company that primarily targets a substantially younger audience would steer away from that? WWE shouldn't be your only source or news and entertainment, there's plenty of Benoit resources elsewhere. It just doesn't make much sense to throw a child murderer in the mix of your current product where children can see. Nobody learns about Albert Fish is second grade either. But, if you want to use that logic, sure, let's erase EVERY SINGLE MURDERER that ever existed. Make for an easy history class with no lessons learned. The WWE has erased every child murderer from their current archives and it's working pretty well. You do get that it's a family-friendly wrestling entertainment company, right? That WWE Encyclopedia shouldn't be the only encyclopedia in your household. |
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Post by wallabylikeyou on Aug 2, 2013 16:00:28 GMT -5
The Benoit thing is...It sounds so callous when I say it but I just don't care. I don't care about wrestler's personal lives, I care about what's on my TV. Christ on a bike..."personal lives" as if he was found with a few rude pic on his phone and didn't, you know, murder his wife and child. |
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Aug 2, 2013 16:05:33 GMT -5
Again, am I condoning what Benoit did?? No. I just want Vince to grow a set and acknowledge Benoit's existence. He's actually done so indirectly - they still mention "2 people have won the Rumble from the #1 spot" but don't mention anyone by name. Randy Orton is the youngest world champion in WWE because of Benoit. They won't say that, so I guess it's "Creative retconning". I'll even go out on a limb and say that partially because of Benoit, WWE donated money to the Sports Legacy Institutte despite Vince disagreeing with the findings on Benoit. But, if you want to use that logic, sure, let's erase EVERY SINGLE MURDERER that ever existed. Make for an easy history class with no lessons learned. It's not, but what I have on my bookshelves or in my DVD collection has nothing to do with this discussion. You're all "ZOMG MURDERER", so erase him from YOUR existence. I choose to separate what he did in the sport he had passion for, worked through, worked hurt, worked despite his friends dying around him. I couldn't imagine what that would do to a normal person's mind, now throw in all the meds he was taking, the crazy schedule, the martial strife......... So once more - I DO NOT AND HAVE NOT CONDONED WHAT BENOIT DID IN HIS LAST DAYS. But I have respect for what he did in this business and that his crime may educate a future generation of wrestlers to seek counseling for depression/anxiety/mental issues so that something like this never happens again. All I've learned from you is "ZOMG BENOIT KILLED A CHILD!" I know, I read the news, didn't condone it. Never have, never will. But that does NOT mean he should be erased form existence - you're saying Vince should only increase his god complex and go through the library, somehow digitally replacing Benoit with Bob Holly as requested by so many in the IWC?  Again, my respect is toward HISTORY. |
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Aug 2, 2013 16:09:36 GMT -5
The Benoit thing is...It sounds so callous when I say it but I just don't care. I don't care about wrestler's personal lives, I care about what's on my TV. Christ on a bike..."personal lives" as if he was found with a few rude pic on his phone and didn't, you know, murder his wife and child. How does that translate into what he did in the ring though? If you didn't know he was a killer nothing in his matches would tell you that. If someone holds Hulk responsible for the Graziano kid can they tell everyone else who enjoys him that they are wrong? Machoman, Austin, and countless others were very abusive to their spouses. When you see Austin beat up Lita did you imagine that's how he did it to Debra or can you seperate the performance from the man? |
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Post by wallabylikeyou on Aug 2, 2013 16:11:52 GMT -5
I'm no big fan of what Austin did either.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Aug 2, 2013 16:16:37 GMT -5
Oh for the love of...
I really regret clicking on this thread.
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HE WAS 4 REAL
