|
Post by Red Impact on Oct 17, 2013 12:41:51 GMT -5
It's hard to deny that it's not something pushed by a lot in the fitness business though. There's a lot of fitness advertising that centers around giving people that image as what's healthy, or trying to shame people who don't push themselves to unhealthy extremes. I agree. However, people MUST understand that advertisements are meant to make a company money not educate. This is imperative when it comes to your health True, but the woman is part of the industry and the picture (and the non-apology) is pretty similar to the image a lot of these push. So I don't think it's out of line to use it as a platform for complaints about the fitness industry.
|
|
hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,796
|
Post by hassanchop on Oct 17, 2013 12:43:30 GMT -5
Isn't this story like a year old? Just like a quote from twitter that some reviewer posted, then some other reviewer gets worked up over it leading to a big feud on Twitter for months.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Oct 17, 2013 12:59:58 GMT -5
Think I said this before, but I'm curious how some of us arrive at the distinction between "fat-shaming" and "lazy-shaming". That may just be a matter of personal perspective. Personally, by putting her body front and center as the core of the advertisement and by providing to a link where she sells a fitness service, it seems to me like the direct implication is "your body should be like this, you have no excuse". I'm not saying it's wrong to see it the other way, I'm just curious about the thought-process for seeing that as the more upfront message. No, there is no rule saying what I'm saying, and I didn't say anything about enforcing rules or handing out warnings. However, it nonetheless comes off as disrespectful when the majority of posters are having a conversation, and a short, curt response carries with it a tone of "I have no read any of your responses and will not address them". It's not a rule, but it's politeness within discourse. But that's just how forums work: a subject is posted and people react to it. Maybe some people take part in one specific discussion, maybe they just want to drop their two cents. I don't see how not taking part in a discussion they have nothing to contribute to is impolite. I don't even understand why anyone would expect everyone else to drop what they were about to say to take part in it. Heck, if anything I find it far more impolite, not to mention self-centred, to tell people to stop posting what they want because it's not what you like. I mean, how would you like it if someone asked you to stop having a discussion because it hogs the thread and they find it disrespectful towards people who don't want to scroll through several posts of discussions? Have your talk if you want but don't give people crap for not doing things your way, especially if it's not the aim of the thread. No, the tone of discussion is incredibly important to a message board. If we're a community based on writing, it's basically our lifeblood. Nobody has to take part in any protracted discussion; that's beyond fine. What's impolite is entering into a multi-page thread where people are discussing an issue, and then posting in a manner that implies you have not read the thread or are being outright dismissive of others. If somebody's not offended by the image, that's fine; but saying "I don't see what's offensive" ignores page after page of discussion and points made by people who DO find something offensive about it, and have made arguments about it. Saying "I don't find it offensive"? That's cool, that's your personal opinion. "I don't see what's offensive" is a comment on other people's opinions. That's what's dismissive and impolite. So again, no warnings, no rule breaks, but it's impolite to do, that's all.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2013 13:05:05 GMT -5
Saying "I don't find it offensive"? That's cool, that's your personal opinion. "I don't see what's offensive" is a comment on other people's opinions. That's what's dismissive and impolite. So again, no warnings, no rule breaks, but it's impolite to do, that's all. I'm going to be all "Mr. Actually" and say it... What you described, particularly your comment on "I don't see what's offensive" isn't just dismissive and impolite. It's basically a term called "gaslighting." And that's some real shit. Pun intended.
|
|
BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,976
|
Post by BRV on Oct 17, 2013 13:09:29 GMT -5
Somebody worked hard and is proud of their accomplishment.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2013 14:12:21 GMT -5
She's hot
|
|
Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,992
|
Post by Sparkybob on Oct 17, 2013 14:43:51 GMT -5
Eh I will just stick my head back into the thread and say I find it weird that the logic most used in this thread has been, Using a womens/mans insecurities to make money is bad but you can do it as you're nice about it.
I will also like to add we don't even know her true motivations are. People are speculating that it's her wanting to fat-sham people but instead and hear me out on this she wants people to get more fit and healthy. Now people might say this is an awful way to get people to exercise, but if people are buying her product then I'll say her marketing plan is working.
My sense is that some people here believe that the only method of self improving is through the method positive reinforcement. I and others here probably agree that sometimes negative reinforcement is needed. Sometimes someone needs to be told straight up that what they are doing is wrong and they need to improved. Is it for everybody? Of course not but so isn't positive reinforcement.
I just find it dangerous to call this women a douche where we don't know if she truly wants to help people get in shape. Maybe this marketing strategy isn't for you, but she's keeping it around so it's a safe assumption that it's working.
|
|
|
Post by crowwreak was WRONG on Oct 17, 2013 14:46:41 GMT -5
"What's your excuse?" .... Reasons I can think of to be "fat":- Actually not wanting to be technically underweight because you do your damn reseaarch A thyroid problem Having overcome an eating disorder HAVING an eating disorder Not being able to afford a gym membership Having some problem that keeps you from being able to do lots of exercise (arthritis etc) Being happy at an average physique I know people with people with perfectly normal bodies who would be caused some distress by seeing bullshit like this. Ok. And how about the simpering cows who have none of these problems? What are their excuses? Stupidity? Laziness? Too busy getting offended by facebook? Too busy whining about it's "too hard"? Too preoccupied with trying to bring down someone who took it upon themselves NOT to make excuses? And it isn't like you HAVE to be a skinny pro athlete to be in good health. No. THAT is one the baseless assumptions made by the clowns and the commenters. Furthermore, average physique =/= being fat, and you do not need a gym membership to improve your health. So these are invalid excuses. You'd think this lady was giving you all the finger in her photos. People are afraid of hard work, and then get pissed when other people succeed. What hypocritical jealousy.
|
|
King Ghidorah
El Dandy
On Probation for Charges of two counts of Saxual Music.
How Absurd
Posts: 8,330
|
Post by King Ghidorah on Oct 17, 2013 14:55:47 GMT -5
"What's your excuse?" .... Reasons I can think of to be "fat":- Actually not wanting to be technically underweight because you do your damn reseaarch A thyroid problem Having overcome an eating disorder HAVING an eating disorder Not being able to afford a gym membership Having some problem that keeps you from being able to do lots of exercise (arthritis etc) Being happy at an average physique I know people with people with perfectly normal bodies who would be caused some distress by seeing bullshit like this. 1. I don't even understand what this means, 2. Thyroid don't stop you from eating healthy 3. Having an eating disorder isn't just a fat people problem 4. See 3 5. Work out from home, it's all the rage 6. See 2 7. If you're happy with your body, being angry with this woman makes no sense. Why is fat is quotations.
|
|
|
Post by Red Impact on Oct 17, 2013 15:07:02 GMT -5
Eh I will just stick my head back into the thread and say I find it weird that the logic most used in this thread has been, Using a womens/mans insecurities to make money is bad but you can do it as you're nice about it. I will also like to add we don't even know her true motivations are. People are speculating that it's her wanting to fat-sham people but instead and hear me out on this she wants people to get more fit and healthy. Now people might say this is an awful way to get people to exercise, but if people are buying her product then I'll say her marketing plan is working. My sense is that some people here believe that the only method of self improving is through the method positive reinforcement. I and others here probably agree that sometimes negative reinforcement is needed. Sometimes someone needs to be told straight up that what they are doing is wrong and they need to improved. Is it for everybody? Of course not but so isn't positive reinforcement. I just find it dangerous to call this women a douche where we don't know if she truly wants to help people get in shape. Maybe this marketing strategy isn't for you, but she's keeping it around so it's a safe assumption that it's working. If you're training someone or acting as their doctor, then I'd agree that negative reinforcement is absolutely needed sometimes. But if you're a salesman in an industry that tends to thrive on making people feel bad, even if they're healthy, to drive sales then you don't really get the benefit of the doubt. Obviously the marketing strategy is working, sure, but I don't think it's out of bounds to call out sleazy marketing for being sleazy marketing.
|
|
|
Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Oct 17, 2013 15:46:44 GMT -5
I'd see where they were coming from if she'd sent it to overweight people purposefully, but if she's just posted it on Facebook and it's been shared, it's not her fault. Heck, if anything, people should be angry at those sharing it.
I get where people are coming from by saying some can't help it, but the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the obese population of the world are not like that due to a condition, rather they get lazy and stuff their faces.
And before anyone jumps down my throat with "You don't know what it's like!", I went from 19 stone to 13.5 in the past couple years by cutting out some sugary foods and exercising four hours a week. Yeah it was hard, but I'm one of the laziest people I know. If I can do it, surely others can.
|
|
|
Post by Dave the Dave on Oct 17, 2013 16:48:57 GMT -5
Somebody worked hard and is proud of their accomplishment. Proud, yes. Humble, no. Arrogant? Maybe.
|
|
|
Post by edgestar on Oct 17, 2013 16:54:17 GMT -5
I don't take offense to her quote, because if she is happy with how she turned out, then good for her. Just because something works for one person does not guarantee the exact same result for everyone.
|
|
|
Post by rybackrulez on Oct 17, 2013 17:03:49 GMT -5
And I feel like it being a ploy to sell stuff is getting lost. Marketing to women this way needs to stop. Yeah, it's fitness advertising 101, same as all those "motivational" posters that offer awful and dangerous advice about working out. Honestly if you want to stay fat stay fat, if you want to get fit, get fit. You know what you are. I will say this to those fat people with their excuses. So i was 300 lbs back in 2010. I was fat. Bad cholesterol. High blood pressure and had diabetes. So i went to the doctor they told me that these meds won't fix the problem i had to. So i started by going to the gym more. Getting rid of the junkfood. Joining an mma gym to train in muay thai, bjj, and the cardio kick boxing class. I started riding my bike everywhere. I started on a diet of veggies and lean protein. I dropped white rice. Which for us filipinos is hard. So by 2011 i went to 250. Then in 2012 i got to 200. In 2013 i am a big brauny 230 lbs at 5'8 The problem with most obese people is a lack of discipline. Lack of motivation. Lack of caring for themselves. So people get butthurt. I lost weight. I thought i was too fat to do anything but my doctor told me i was going to die before i hit 35. Now i am super healthy. Really stop blaming others and look at yourself and what you need to do
|
|
|
Post by rybackrulez on Oct 17, 2013 17:06:12 GMT -5
Eh I will just stick my head back into the thread and say I find it weird that the logic most used in this thread has been, Using a womens/mans insecurities to make money is bad but you can do it as you're nice about it. I will also like to add we don't even know her true motivations are. People are speculating that it's her wanting to fat-sham people but instead and hear me out on this she wants people to get more fit and healthy. Now people might say this is an awful way to get people to exercise, but if people are buying her product then I'll say her marketing plan is working. My sense is that some people here believe that the only method of self improving is through the method positive reinforcement. I and others here probably agree that sometimes negative reinforcement is needed. Sometimes someone needs to be told straight up that what they are doing is wrong and they need to improved. Is it for everybody? Of course not but so isn't positive reinforcement. I just find it dangerous to call this women a douche where we don't know if she truly wants to help people get in shape. Maybe this marketing strategy isn't for you, but she's keeping it around so it's a safe assumption that it's working. I agree with this sentiment. Lots of people think hand holding and babying is the way
|
|
|
Post by Red Impact on Oct 17, 2013 17:17:09 GMT -5
Yeah, it's fitness advertising 101, same as all those "motivational" posters that offer awful and dangerous advice about working out. Honestly if you want to stay fat stay fat, if you want to get fit, get fit. You know what you are. And if they want to be sleazy, they'll be called out as being sleazy. There's nothing wrong with tough love when it's warranted, but creating an image and trying to shame healthy people to buy your products it sleazy as shit. I mean, good for you for getting healthy I did it myself when I was in college. But anyone who thinks the fitness industry doesn't go out of its way to create unhealthy body issues to sell itself is really just being blind to reality, and in some cases they get downright dangerous in the way they try to "motivate" people.
|
|
|
Post by Piccolo on Oct 17, 2013 17:28:43 GMT -5
I got to thinking about this lady again today while I was out trail running on the mountain in the rain... I'd been itching to get out the whole last half hour at work, and when I finally got to throw my shoes on and drive out to my favorite spot and pound the dirt and the hills for a while, it was nothing but pure bliss.
And I got to thinking... earlier in this thread, I said she was probably the sort of person who didn't think this kind of friendly competitive statement was something to get upset about, but that it was just a motivational challenge. And I still think that's true. But on the other hand, a couple things about it made me feel a little sad for her. One, she seems to see her body as the goal, and the exercise as the means. That's so much time to spend just to get a visual appearance that you like. For me, it's just the opposite... a healthy body is the means to go do the activities that I love. So I couldn't care less if I eat pizza and beer a few too many evenings and get a teeny pooch on my belly for a week or so, because if I'm running and cycling and kayaking and whatever, that's where my high is coming from.
And secondly, it occurred to me that when I'm running, I'm never thinking about what my friends' "excuses" are for not doing it. I figure my friends have their own bliss that's not the same as mine, and it would never even occur to me that if they were honestly virtuous or energetic people, they'd want the same things I want. So framing someone else's differences as something they need an excuse for seems to speak to a certain lack of confidence or fulfillment in a person, I think.
So I started out thinking there was nothing wrong with this (and I still don't, really, from the perspective that she posted it on her own facebook and it was never intended for worldwide consumption), but I've come around today to wanting to give this lady a hug and tell her she's fine just as she is... she doesn't need to try so hard.
|
|
|
Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Oct 17, 2013 17:32:34 GMT -5
So I started out thinking there was nothing wrong with this (and I still don't, really, from the perspective that she posted it on her own facebook and it was never intended for worldwide consumption), but I've come around today to wanting to give this lady a hug and tell her she's fine just as she is... she doesn't need to try so hard. Could you give me a hug, too?
|
|
BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,976
|
Post by BRV on Oct 17, 2013 17:38:10 GMT -5
Somebody worked hard and is proud of their accomplishment. Proud, yes. Humble, no. Arrogant? Maybe. But isn't all pride arrogance? Pride is defined as "a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc." And honestly, if she wants to have an overbearing sense of pride, then it's rightly deserved. More people should be proud of their accomplishments, particularly when it comes to bettering their health. She had three kids and is in better shape than most people in their 20's. I truly don't understand this notion that when somebody accomplishes something great or achieves something significant, even in terms of bettering themselves physically to allow them a better life, our instinctive reaction is to demonize it or criticize it.
|
|
|
Post by Andrew is Good on Oct 17, 2013 17:42:03 GMT -5
I wanted to bring this up here.
When I was 19, I dated this girl who was definitely a bigger girl. We broke up and a few months later, she got pregnant with a new boyfriend. After having the kid and being bigger then ever, and later on breaking up with her loser baby's daddy, she lost 150 pounds and kept it off, even getting married to a new guy with her kid. When I last talked to her, she was still having issues with her skin and due to how long she kept the weight off, the government was going to pay for surgery to get rid of excess skin. She hasn't taken when I last talked to her for many of the reasons many people say they can't lose weight. She is or was a university student in PEI, worked a job and raised a child. She simply didn't have the time. But, she changed her lifestyle and eating habits, and even with a kid, school and a job, she is very healthy and very active.
She doesn't look like the woman in the picture, probably because she wasn't an athlete before her kid. She was overweight to obese before having a kid, and lost a lot of weight afterwards. So while in the picture, she definitely comes across bad, the fact is, you can lose the weight. Hell, she was a fat girl before getting pregnant. But yeah, that's just my own personal story.
It sucks, because I dated this one girl who is definitely a BBW, in that she is bigger but incredibly attractive (to the point where she's a bit egotistical and knows it, with pictures of herself on her wall because of how beautiful she is). She works a regular job, had personal issues from past relationships, works out, and now has a new boyfriend (though she de-friended me when she got her boyfriend, which was odd, because I got a girlfriend recently and didn't de-friend her, I had no problems with her, haha but that's Facebook). On the other end, my former room mate is the fat person stereotype. She's fat, lazy, unmotivated, a slob, she practically destroyed the room I was living in, she blames other issues for why she's fat, she procrastinates when it comes to getting healthy, etc. And she is gutless because after I kicked her out, she won't get her f***ing stuff and for awhile it was taking up room in my porch.
|
|