Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,950
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Mar 11, 2014 23:58:53 GMT -5
You kind of miss the point. Something you can't explain isn't evidence for Bigfoot or Loch Ness, or E.T. Just because you can't explain it, doesn't mean there isn't a totally rational explanation for it. But at the same time, not having enough information about something isn't enough to scream "SCIENCE! It's not real!" I have no clue how being a ghost works...maybe when a person dies they get a minute and a half every 150 years or something. Scientific advancements haven't been around long enough to test such a theory. I just keep an open mind. If someone proves they exist, I'll be fine with that. If someone proves they absolutely do not, I'll be fine with that too. Even if someone proves that they exist, or that every single one of them has been gas pipes or whatever, I'd be fine with that as well I just want proof one way or the other and it's just easier for me to keep an open mind. My mind isn't closed. There's just no evidence to believe in any of it. Magic isn't real. There's nothing in our understanding right now to even suppose ghosts might be real. Once responsible people look into things, test them, re-test them, we can start looking at an explanation. Something I don't get happened, that's proof is nothing. Science works because it's dependable. It's something that can be tested. It's been twisted lately into "something we just really want to believe, but I'd rather believe in the fantastical so I'm just as credible." No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not how it works. Present one scrap of evidence for ghosts or any supernatural phenomenon and collect your Noble Prize. One iota, anything at all, the Noble Prize is yours, as it would completely change our understanding of the physical world.
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bob
Salacious Crumb
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 78,486
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Post by bob on Mar 12, 2014 0:08:35 GMT -5
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 12, 2014 0:26:51 GMT -5
I really, really want to believe so. I've always been big into the paranormal and the supernatural. I grew up on shows like Sightings and Unsolved Mysteries and as a kid it just seemed to surreal to hear all these encounters happening to average, everyday people. Even friends I grew up with have told me about having supernatural encounters. That being said, I've never experienced anything for myself and I truly hope I do before I die. When it comes to things like ghosts, Bigfoot, Loch Ness, extraterrestrials, I can perfectly understand people's skepticism. But millions of people have experienced something that can't be explained. Are all of them liars? Are all of them just making stuff up for attention? Are all of them victims of bizarre coincidences? Frankly, I'm just not close minded and arrogant enough to say "it's all BS." No, but all of them might be mistaken, misinterpreting, or just wanting to believe enough to twist anecdotal experiences to fit theories. See, it's not close minded to ask for evidence. That's what science is. Skeptics are perfectly willing to change their minds if you present a compelling enough case. If you're making an extraordinary claim, show me extraordinary evidence/proof and I'll buy it. Burden of proof is on the believers. That's not arrogance, it's the scientific method.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 12, 2014 0:35:12 GMT -5
Spirits of the dead? Nope.
Projections from parallel universes/dimensions? Definitely plausible.
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Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on Mar 12, 2014 0:41:03 GMT -5
But at the same time, not having enough information about something isn't enough to scream "SCIENCE! It's not real!" I have no clue how being a ghost works...maybe when a person dies they get a minute and a half every 150 years or something. Scientific advancements haven't been around long enough to test such a theory. I just keep an open mind. If someone proves they exist, I'll be fine with that. If someone proves they absolutely do not, I'll be fine with that too. Even if someone proves that they exist, or that every single one of them has been gas pipes or whatever, I'd be fine with that as well I just want proof one way or the other and it's just easier for me to keep an open mind. My mind isn't closed. There's just no evidence to believe in any of it. Magic isn't real. There's nothing in our understanding right now to even suppose ghosts might be real. Once responsible people look into things, test them, re-test them, we can start looking at an explanation. Something I don't get happened, that's proof is nothing. Science works because it's dependable. It's something that can be tested. It's been twisted lately into "something we just really want to believe, but I'd rather believe in the fantastical so I'm just as credible." No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not how it works. Present one scrap of evidence for ghosts or any supernatural phenomenon and collect your Noble Prize. One iota, anything at all, the Noble Prize is yours, as it would completely change our understanding of the physical world. Sure, provide me the millions and millions and millions of dollars for which I can buy equipment, travel to the places that may or may not be haunted, stay there, eat, and all that, and I'll chase ghosts for as long as you want. Oh, but you better spend millions of more dollars on a group to check my work in case I'm faking, and millions of more dollars after that to get a group to check THEM to make sure they aren't faking and so on and so forth. There are tons of "ghost hunter" people out there, some seem (to me anyway) to be credible scientists, and some seem to be full of BS. Some of the legit hunters get some info that seem to point to ghosts being real, and some get info that point to ghosts are fake. Who's right? Who's wrong? There's layers upon layers. I prefer to say "Maybe, I don't know" rather than conform to any definite answer.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,950
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Mar 12, 2014 0:41:34 GMT -5
I really, really want to believe so. I've always been big into the paranormal and the supernatural. I grew up on shows like Sightings and Unsolved Mysteries and as a kid it just seemed to surreal to hear all these encounters happening to average, everyday people. Even friends I grew up with have told me about having supernatural encounters. That being said, I've never experienced anything for myself and I truly hope I do before I die. When it comes to things like ghosts, Bigfoot, Loch Ness, extraterrestrials, I can perfectly understand people's skepticism. But millions of people have experienced something that can't be explained. Are all of them liars? Are all of them just making stuff up for attention? Are all of them victims of bizarre coincidences? Frankly, I'm just not close minded and arrogant enough to say "it's all BS." No, but all of them might be mistaken, misinterpreting, or just wanting to believe enough to twist anecdotal experiences to fit theories. See, it's not close minded to ask for evidence. That's what science is. Skeptics are perfectly willing to change their minds if you present a compelling enough case. If you're making an extraordinary claim, show me extraordinary evidence/proof and I'll buy it. Burden of proof is on the believers. That's not arrogance, it's the scientific method. I saw a unicorn. I believe it's true. How can I be crazy and millions of little girls? For some reason, people have somehow decided that the truth is democratic.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,950
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Mar 12, 2014 0:53:24 GMT -5
My mind isn't closed. There's just no evidence to believe in any of it. Magic isn't real. There's nothing in our understanding right now to even suppose ghosts might be real. Once responsible people look into things, test them, re-test them, we can start looking at an explanation. Something I don't get happened, that's proof is nothing. Science works because it's dependable. It's something that can be tested. It's been twisted lately into "something we just really want to believe, but I'd rather believe in the fantastical so I'm just as credible." No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not how it works. Present one scrap of evidence for ghosts or any supernatural phenomenon and collect your Noble Prize. One iota, anything at all, the Noble Prize is yours, as it would completely change our understanding of the physical world. Sure, provide me the millions and millions and millions of dollars for which I can buy equipment, travel to the places that may or may not be haunted, stay there, eat, and all that, and I'll chase ghosts for as long as you want. Oh, but you better spend millions of more dollars on a group to check my work in case I'm faking, and millions of more dollars after that to get a group to check THEM to make sure they aren't faking and so on and so forth. There are tons of "ghost hunter" people out there, some seem (to me anyway) to be credible scientists, and some seem to be full of BS. Some of the legit hunters get some info that seem to point to ghosts being real, and some get info that point to ghosts are fake. Who's right? Who's wrong? There's layers upon layers. I prefer to say "Maybe, I don't know" rather than conform to any definite answer. Not one "ghosthunter" has provided any evidence that can't be explained away in 30 seconds by someone who knows what they're talking about. Orbs are always lens flare. EVP is Auditory pareidolia, interference from other sources. The goofs running around in "haunted" houses looking for magnetic fields, somehow always find them near magnetic sources, who'da thunk it??! One hand doesn't wash the other. Science isn't strictly dogmatic, I mean, it does cling to things that aren't true sometimes, but eventually that falls away and we arrive at new theories and ideas (BTW, theory doesn't mean guess or idea, for instance it's *only* a theory that Earth revolves around the Sun). No current answer isn't a point in favour of the supernatural. It was already said, the burden of proof falls on the believer, not the skeptic or person who denies. I don't have to disprove ghosts, fairies, witches, zombies, goblins and Leprechauns, you have to offer proof that holds up. "Maybe" isn't really valid. Maybe ghosts exist, maybe not. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. No matter how many times you say you've seen a nope, I can still say, you're wrong. Until you prove it. Maybe that seems unfair to you, but that's how it works. Not every idea or opinion is just as valid just because you express it. That goes for everyone, that's why we test and investigate things.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 12, 2014 6:43:52 GMT -5
Another thing to keep in mind is most of these ghost hunters are pretending to science, using equipment that's only designed to detect what it was built to find.
Take EMF meters as an example. Damn near everything has some sort of detectable electromagnetic field. They're everywhere. But even if they weren't ubiquitous, why would a field be proof of a ghost? Who decided they gave off fields and that was a property of being a ghost? You can't test that, because they haven't even been determined to exist. That's a pretty major step to skip.
It's the same thing with Bigfoot "DNA", gotta have proof of an actual animal first to identify what itsdna is like.
I could sit here and say that leprechauns give off infrared lights, so we should be out there searching with infrared cameras, but that's meaningless till I first prove that leprechauns are even a thing that has physical properties in the first place.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 12, 2014 7:23:33 GMT -5
Maybe it's multiple appearances of the Martian Manhunter. We know his traits:he can fly, turn invisible, shapeshift, is superstrong, is telepathic, doesn't like fire etc.
We have thousands and thousands of stories about the Martian Manhunter over the last hundred years were he exhibits these traits. Surelysome of these experiences can be explained if there's a real J'onn J'onzz out there somewhere.
That may sound unfair and like I'm trying to be an asshole. I'm just trying to illustrate it's the exact same logic. There's a much evidence that it COULD be J'onn as there is that it's ghosts.
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Post by Mc Mc Mannequin on Mar 12, 2014 7:48:08 GMT -5
If ghosts are real why are there never any cavemen ghosts or a ghost with an afro and flares from the 70s .
Victorian era people sure like becoming ghosts.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 12, 2014 7:54:38 GMT -5
Why would ghosts be wearing clothes at all?
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shaker
Team Rocket
The numbers don't lie - and they spell disaster for you at Sacrifice!
Posts: 779
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Post by shaker on Mar 12, 2014 7:56:28 GMT -5
It'd be super depressing if the afterlife was just floating around in old, dark houses.
Live for 90 years, be good to everyone around you, work hard every day..... be rewarded with decades of knocking stuff off shelves and MAYBE getting to show up in a photograph.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2014 7:59:55 GMT -5
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Post by Green Arrow on Mar 12, 2014 8:33:03 GMT -5
Yes. They leave burning lowercase T's on the lawns of rich people. That was me , and it was meant to be a "j" Sorry about that
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Mar 12, 2014 9:41:45 GMT -5
I've tricked/pranked way too many friends into thinking they were haunted for me not to instantly assume that "ghosts" are just the result of someone like me being an ass and playing smoke and mirrors. Maybe if there's evidence in the future, but nothing now is convincing enough to me.
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cory16154
Team Rocket
Lets Go Pens
Posts: 848
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Post by cory16154 on Mar 12, 2014 11:30:39 GMT -5
if you lived in my house you would have zero problem believing in ghosts
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,294
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Post by Push R Truth on Mar 12, 2014 13:12:04 GMT -5
I worked in a building that was an old brick and stone asylum from back in the days when "mental treatment" all too often meant something horrible. The old records talked about shock treatments, prison cells with padded walls and letting their patients enjoy the outdoors... with balls of iron chained to their ankles.
ANYWHO, everybody claimed it was haunted, and yes, I heard all sorts of weird stuff too. I remember whispers and watched papers fall off desks. We eventually moved out to a new building and did a little exploring on our way out. Turns out that back in the 50's when they removed the boiler, they left all the piping through the walls intact and didn't plug them. The pipes that lead outside were not capped either. Essentially the entire building had all these small pipes open to the air. When we removed some of the false ceiling and put your ear up to the pipe ends, you heard all sorts of stuff from air movement. It was actually kind of neat. Honestly, I was a little disappointed. Even though I don't believe in ghosts, I really kinda want them to exist. My heart loves the idea of "magic" even if my brain doesn't.
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Essential1
Hank Scorpio
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 6,080
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Post by Essential1 on Mar 12, 2014 13:40:32 GMT -5
The only thing that really spooked me was when I was about 14 and getting ready to go to school. Are living room had a large table in the corner at the time and a big framed picture of my older brother who died sat on this. I went behind a chair to pick up a small plastic bag with shoes in and walked towards the door to leave. It must of been about 7 seconds later but the picture dropped itself on the table really fast. It was weird as it was propped up with a stand but who knows it could been unstable as I walked near it.
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Mar 12, 2014 14:07:09 GMT -5
If ghosts are real why are there never any cavemen ghosts or a ghost with an afro and flares from the 70s . Victorian era people sure like becoming ghosts. Came in here to say this, also we're even racist in our ghost sightings, you only hear about a black ghost when it's a slave or something like that. Also why limit it to humans? Where are the ghosts of all the dinosaurs wiped out? What about all the cows, chickens and pigs that are slaughtered every day? I'd say if anyone has a right to be pissed off it's them! I know some people hear the ghosts of their dead pets but isn't it weird how it's only their own pets they hear. I don't believe in them and I've never experienced anything....much more likely any strange sightings etc can be put down to that big organ in our heads we have yet to fully understand.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Mar 12, 2014 14:45:14 GMT -5
If ghosts are real why are there never any cavemen ghosts or a ghost with an afro and flares from the 70s . Victorian era people sure like becoming ghosts. Came in here to say this, also we're even racist in our ghost sightings, you only hear about a black ghost when it's a slave or something like that. Also why limit it to humans? Where are the ghosts of all the dinosaurs wiped out? What about all the cows, chickens and pigs that are slaughtered every day? I'd say if anyone has a right to be pissed off it's them! I know some people hear the ghosts of their dead pets but isn't it weird how it's only their own pets they hear. I don't believe in them and I've never experienced anything....much more likely any strange sightings etc can be put down to that big organ in our heads we have yet to fully understand. ...I'd read a story about ghost dinosaurs. I'd read the shit out of that story. Someone better write that book or I'll be forced to do it myself.
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