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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 21, 2014 10:22:32 GMT -5
Sure, provide me the millions and millions and millions of dollars for which I can buy equipment, travel to the places that may or may not be haunted, stay there, eat, and all that, and I'll chase ghosts for as long as you want. Oh, but you better spend millions of more dollars on a group to check my work in case I'm faking, and millions of more dollars after that to get a group to check THEM to make sure they aren't faking and so on and so forth. There are tons of "ghost hunter" people out there, some seem (to me anyway) to be credible scientists, and some seem to be full of BS. Some of the legit hunters get some info that seem to point to ghosts being real, and some get info that point to ghosts are fake. Who's right? Who's wrong? There's layers upon layers. I prefer to say "Maybe, I don't know" rather than conform to any definite answer. Not one "ghosthunter" has provided any evidence that can't be explained away in 30 seconds by someone who knows what they're talking about. Orbs are always lens flare. EVP is Auditory pareidolia, interference from other sources. To expand on this one Ghosthunter show went to the USS North Carolina which is apparently haunted. I tuned in to watch it mostly because it's the ship my grandfather served on in WW2 and I wanted to see it... also I was kind of hoping they said something about the radioman ... since he's still alive that would be a trick They didn't mention that... but what they did mention was finding electromagnetic readings and then acted like this meant something. Which I guess it does... it means that the ship was in salt water.
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Post by Red Impact on Mar 21, 2014 11:00:32 GMT -5
I think there's a possibility. I've never been anywhere that was supposed to be haunted for very long so who knows? I don't get why some scientists don't just check out the supposedly "most haunted" areas. Screw the burden of proof, if ghosts truly don't exist than they can prove they aren't much faster. Letting ghost hunters continue on with their "findings" is just going to go on forever. Proving something doesn't exist is actually impossible, due to the core scientific principal that the lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. That's why the burden of proof is on proving a hypothesis, you can prove something exists, but if you don't find evidence of anything, it just means you didn't find evidence. The notion that it's up to scientists to disprove what the ghost hunters or cryptozoologists believe is scientifically backwards, you have to provide actual evidence that can be analyzed by others, not leave it up to them to find evidence to disprove it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 12:24:18 GMT -5
I don't believe in ghosts.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 12:36:03 GMT -5
I know too many people I trust who have no reason to lie and claim to have dealt with these things in person.
No way I'm going to dismiss them based on what science tells me. Science is all out the window as far as all matters spiritual are concerned.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 21, 2014 14:03:05 GMT -5
I think there's a possibility. I've never been anywhere that was supposed to be haunted for very long so who knows? I don't get why some scientists don't just check out the supposedly "most haunted" areas. Screw the burden of proof, if ghosts truly don't exist than they can prove they aren't much faster. Letting ghost hunters continue on with their "findings" is just going to go on forever. Proving something doesn't exist is actually impossible, due to the core scientific principal that the lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. That's why the burden of proof is on proving a hypothesis, you can prove something exists, but if you don't find evidence of anything, it just means you didn't find evidence. The notion that it's up to scientists to disprove what the ghost hunters or cryptozoologists believe is scientifically backwards, you have to provide actual evidence that can be analyzed by others, not leave it up to them to find evidence to disprove it. Exactly. And you don't have to think someone's lying to think that they could be mistaken. The human brain and memory is unreliable as all hell, especially when it comes to things people want to believe. The idea that the supposed supernatural is off-limits to science is just bizarre frankly.
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Post by Kash Flagg on Mar 21, 2014 14:15:23 GMT -5
I ain't afraid of no ghosts. Fixed that for you.
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Post by Red Impact on Mar 21, 2014 15:01:31 GMT -5
Proving something doesn't exist is actually impossible, due to the core scientific principal that the lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. That's why the burden of proof is on proving a hypothesis, you can prove something exists, but if you don't find evidence of anything, it just means you didn't find evidence. The notion that it's up to scientists to disprove what the ghost hunters or cryptozoologists believe is scientifically backwards, you have to provide actual evidence that can be analyzed by others, not leave it up to them to find evidence to disprove it. Exactly. And you don't have to think someone's lying to think that they could be mistaken. The human brain and memory is unreliable as all hell, especially when it comes to things people want to believe. The idea that the supposed supernatural is off-limits to science is just bizarre frankly. That too. There's actually been a push to prevent eye-witness testimony from being used in court because of how notoriously unreliable it is, and in that case it's often someone seeing something clearly. When you're dealing with things that go bump in the night, nebulous sounds or strange feelings, how fallible memory is has to be taken into account.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 16:15:35 GMT -5
Proving something doesn't exist is actually impossible, due to the core scientific principal that the lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. That's why the burden of proof is on proving a hypothesis, you can prove something exists, but if you don't find evidence of anything, it just means you didn't find evidence. The notion that it's up to scientists to disprove what the ghost hunters or cryptozoologists believe is scientifically backwards, you have to provide actual evidence that can be analyzed by others, not leave it up to them to find evidence to disprove it. Exactly. And you don't have to think someone's lying to think that they could be mistaken. The human brain and memory is unreliable as all hell, especially when it comes to things people want to believe. The idea that the supposed supernatural is off-limits to science is just bizarre frankly. Off-limits isn't the right term, at least, not for what I said. But you can't use measuring tools or particle accelerators or microbiology for divination or telekinesis. I think too many people are wrapped up in the mindset that empirical science is the final authority on all matters. Temporal matters, absolutely. Medical science, for example, is an incredible achievement and should in no way be discounted in some kind of "lol science" blanket. But things that we can't ordinarily see or hear and have no known instruments with which to measure or study...how do we accept them into empirical study at all? There's nowhere for metaphysics and mysticism to go if we try and study them by the current parameters of science. But just because modern technology has no answers for these questions, does that mean it should be wholly dismissed?
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Mar 21, 2014 23:25:11 GMT -5
Exactly. And you don't have to think someone's lying to think that they could be mistaken. The human brain and memory is unreliable as all hell, especially when it comes to things people want to believe. The idea that the supposed supernatural is off-limits to science is just bizarre frankly. Off-limits isn't the right term, at least, not for what I said. But you can't use measuring tools or particle accelerators or microbiology for divination or telekinesis. I think too many people are wrapped up in the mindset that empirical science is the final authority on all matters. Temporal matters, absolutely. Medical science, for example, is an incredible achievement and should in no way be discounted in some kind of "lol science" blanket. But things that we can't ordinarily see or hear and have no known instruments with which to measure or study...how do we accept them into empirical study at all? There's nowhere for metaphysics and mysticism to go if we try and study them by the current parameters of science. But just because modern technology has no answers for these questions, does that mean it should be wholly dismissed? Ghosts could very well be real, but until there's evidence, I don't believe. All supernatural stuff, so far, by definition falls outside the realm of science, but just believing isn't evidence. When and if those things prove to be real, the scientific method will find them. I promise.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Mar 21, 2014 23:31:39 GMT -5
I don't believe in ghosts, but I also don't rule them out.
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HeyYo
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Post by HeyYo on Mar 22, 2014 0:19:59 GMT -5
Sorry,this is going to be long winded.
I've never really believed in ghosts or spirits until this past year or so. I was on the science part of things, and saying that, I still hope what happened to me was a part of my imagination or can be explained. But, here goes.
I work in a treatment center for adolescent youth with backgrounds in addictions and violence. These kids have backgrounds that would literately make you cry. Hollywood couldn't come up with some of the things that they've been through. Some of the kids that have passed through our system have gone on to do horrible things/have had horrible things happen to them. I work with very good and honest people, and had heard about things that had gone on. These people had no reason to lie and I trust them. I didn't really put much stock into what they've said because nothing had happened to me.
I've been at this job for over a year now, but when this happened it was this past June. I had been at the job for about 6 months and was working the night shift. Our kids at the time were heavily medicated, and would passed out cold shortly after taking them. Behaviour wise, it was a pretty calm night and the kids settled on time with no issues.
It was a very hot night out, probably the hottest of the summer, to the point where you would still sweat buckets wearing a t-shirt and shorts. It was around 4am and I randomly get a nose bleed out of both nostrils. I'm thinking this is unusual, because I haven't had a nose bleed in my life other than the one time I broke my nose. I clean it up, whatever, I'm fine. I go to do the routine check on the kids. They're all sleeping. No problem there. I go downstairs to do some night duties, and once I get downstairs it is freezing. Like put a winter jacket on freezing. I get all the way down and I start to hear this slow rap music but I can't make out what it is. I would compare it to having someone walk by you with an ipod blaring and you can tell what they're listening to but you can't make it completely out. I'm thinking this is weird because everything was turned off last time I checked. I'm going all through downstairs trying to find out where it's coming from. Then all of a sudden I get this weird, bizarre, uncomfortable feeling that I've never felt before. I can't truly describe it, only that it was extremely uneasy. So, I look around and can't find a source for the music (the volume was consistent everywhere downstairs, and it is a pretty big area), while still having the uneasy feeling. Since the music started once I got downstairs, I'm thinking maybe I woke one of the kids when I did the room check and they turned their music on, as sometimes they do this to help fall asleep, but because of their meds they are usually pretty sedated. I go back upstairs to check on them again, and they're all passed out sleeping. None of them have a radio on.
I go back downstairs and it is still freezing and the music is still playing. I still have the uneasy feeling and figure I'm going find out where this is coming from because it was starting to bother me. I literately spend the next 10 minutes going from the downstairs office to the pantry to the laundry room, all over the place and still can't find a source for it. The volume level is still consistent everywhere. I go into the kitchen. From the kitchen you can see the living area where we have a book shelf that it stacked with books. Out of the corner of my eye I see some movement, and I look over to the book shelf and I shit you not, a book rises out of the book shelf, floating in mid-air, and opens like someone opened it to read it with their back to me. I pinch myself and slap myself across the face to make sure I wasn't dreaming. I wasn't. The book is still floating and I run upstairs.
I go check on the kids again and they're all still sleeping. I go into out upstairs office where we usually spend our night shifts. I call to the building next door (we have three houses next to each other within the same company) as I felt I needed to talk to someone (I wasn't going to say anything about the book because I didn't want to sound crazy). Literately, the only thing I said to the guy who was working next door was to ask him how his night was going. Less than 10 seconds into the conversation, he asks me if all our kids were asleep. I told him yes. He asked if I knew that for sure. I told him yes and that I checked on them three times within the last 15 minutes. He then asks me some questions about who was sleeping in one of the rooms. I ask him why and he said he said a little girl in a white dress in a particular room. The room he was describing had a 16 year old boy sleeping in it who was wearing a black tank top. I asked him how long ago it happened and he said two minutes ago when he went out for a smoke, which would have been just before I saw the book move. I start telling him about the music and was about to tell him about what happened with the book, when again I saw something move out of the corner of my eye and heard like a screeching sound. I get out of my chair and again I shit you not, the couch in the common area that was positioned straight was now on a 45 degree angle. The freakin' couch moved in front of me. I got pretty freaked out so I switched buildings with the guy I was on the phone with.
So, fast forward to this past January. I didn't tell anyone about the nose bleed prior to this happening (as I thought it was irrelevant), and didn't tell a soul about the book because I didn't want anyone to think I was BS'ing them. I had told my co-workers about the music and couch as the guy I switched with knew and our supervisors that showed up in the morning would have been curious why we switched. In January, one of my co-workers had a tray of food float in mid air right in front of his face and the cupboard doors open in front of him during a night shift. He told me this and then added "and then my nose started to bleed out of nowhere, and I never get nosebleeds."
So yeah, it was really weird what I experienced. People I've worked with have similar stories, and I do really trust these people. Some have seen ghosts/spirits but I haven't. Until I actually do, I still don't know if I believe in them.
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