Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,975
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Apr 8, 2014 22:06:25 GMT -5
I wonder how many knew. I'm even wondering if Heyman knew. My thought is Heyman didn't know. He looked surprised as hell, which doesn't really fit his character going into, during or after the match. He looked shocked, I think they didn't tell him to get the best reaction. I'd imagine the list of people who knew where Taker, Brock, the ref, the agent and Triple H. I've heard only 5 to 6 people knew.
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Post by thetower52 on Apr 8, 2014 22:08:10 GMT -5
I'm just sad over it Not mad. I knew it would end at some point Me being the punk mark I am id of perfered him but I don't mind Brock
I'm just said that last match or not undertakers days are pretty much at the end. I love taker and will miss watching him
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Apr 8, 2014 22:48:10 GMT -5
Just took a survey on Wrestlemania and one of the questions WWE has was "Who should would like to have seen beat Undertaker at WM 30?" Just a few of the names: Brock (I was happy with the outcome) No one (The streak should have continued) Stone Cold Triple H HBK Damian Sandow Daniel Bryan Roman Reigns
I laughed for a good 5 minutes.
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Post by molson5 on Apr 9, 2014 0:03:31 GMT -5
I loved it, and thought it was really compelling stuff. When the match got going, and it was clear that the Undertaker had nothing left, even compared to a year ago, I was ready for it to be over. It just seemed like the right time. Meltzer reported that when Lesnar/Taker was originally pitched 3 years ago, it was Undertaker's idea to have the match, and back then, it was the Undertaker's idea to lose to Lesnar. It seems like an Undertaker thing to do, to be defeated, and to just walk away. He's an old school guy, he started in the territory days, and it just seems like old-timey territory booking.
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Post by Sparvid on Apr 9, 2014 2:23:54 GMT -5
I wonder how many knew. I'm even wondering if Heyman knew. My thought is Heyman didn't know. He looked surprised as hell, which doesn't really fit his character going into, during or after the match. He looked shocked, I think they didn't tell him to get the best reaction. I'd imagine the list of people who knew where Taker, Brock, the ref, the agent and Triple H. I've heard only 5 to 6 people knew. Presumably Kevin Dunn too.
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Post by grunt on Apr 9, 2014 2:36:57 GMT -5
Just took a survey on Wrestlemania and one of the questions WWE has was "Who should would like to have seen beat Undertaker at WM 30?" Just a few of the names: Brock (I was happy with the outcome) No one (The streak should have continued) Stone Cold Triple H HBK Damian Sandow Daniel Bryan Roman Reigns I laughed for a good 5 minutes. Yeah, so did I. I hope you did the right thing when you answered the question, though.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,975
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Apr 9, 2014 3:07:20 GMT -5
My thought is Heyman didn't know. He looked surprised as hell, which doesn't really fit his character going into, during or after the match. He looked shocked, I think they didn't tell him to get the best reaction. I'd imagine the list of people who knew where Taker, Brock, the ref, the agent and Triple H. I've heard only 5 to 6 people knew. Presumably Kevin Dunn too. Also, probably Vince. I bet he knew...
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,047
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Apr 9, 2014 3:36:25 GMT -5
Moments like that make me very jealous of people are just much nicer than I am. I would have told that dude to go f*** himself at least 10 times in at least 5 different ways on my way to the bus if I were Taker.
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Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
Posts: 5,185
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Post by Chip on Apr 9, 2014 3:56:33 GMT -5
Really only two people could have ended it and made sense, Brock or Cena. The Streak wouldn't have "made" anyone. If anything, it would be such an impossible standard to live up to and be "The One". You needed it to be someone who could carry that weight and not have to worry about then having a career worthy of that title. And unless Cena was going to go heel, Brock's the perfect choice. This is really it, I saw so many people complain that it was wasted on a part-timer but it's really the only way to go. Giving it to a full-time guy is more likely then not going to kill his career. Not even necessarily just the expectations of them, the booking. Kayfabe whoever broke the streak is the most powerful force the WWE has ever seen, that kind of booking on a full-time guy would make even Bruno say it's a bit much. On a part-timer it's much easier to book someone that strong without it getting boring or tiresome, the best parallel I can make is to comic books. You can't have someone like Galactus or Doomsday be this constant presence as eventually you have to de-emphasis or over-come their power for the story to ever go anywhere or be entertaining. Their absence after being over-come or fended off allows them to be accepted as world-breakers again when they do re-appear.
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Post by thesunbeast on Apr 9, 2014 5:26:12 GMT -5
Based off of what I've read so far, it seems that Undertaker got injured during one part outside of the ring, during the first 5 minutes of the match, where Lesnar caught Undertaker's lick, and just pushed him down, and Undertaker took a hard fall on the floor.
Alot of Undertaker's wobblyness, IMO, was selling. I've been watching wrestling for 23 years, and I've seen what gladiators do in that ring even when they're totally unconscious, and I've seen what veterans do. Undertaker, now in his 30th year in the business, will do instinctively what others take years to learn. In the match with Lesnar, while concussed, when his legis injured, he sells the leg. When is arm is being worked, he sells the arm. When Undertaker was on his back during the hells's gate's, he was acting exactly the way he did during the later moments of his match with HHH at WM27, I don't think that when he shows real-life pain that he acts the same as when he's selling. That isn't to say that he wasn't in pain, just that you can't tell by his expressions. Undertaker basically stopped selling right before the big finish, right after hitting the first tombstone, and Lesnar kicking out, and the surprised look on his face. When he stood up, he stopped selling and looked diabolical while doing his throat slashing taunt, and walked right over to Lesnar perfectly fine. I think he stopped selling to make the big finish that much more of a surprise. If Undertakers expressions and body language during the hell's gate's were for real, then no-one recovers from that level of injury that quickly and acts the way he did the final 60 seconds of the match. Granted, I think it was all adrenaline, but the pain that he was EXPRESSING during the match I think was mostly selling.
So, I think it's unfair to judge Undertaker's current skill and performance level based off of appearance. I think Undertaker should retire because #1, his body might not handle it anymore, and #2, the streak is now over, but the body not handling it part doesn't have to be apparent by appearance. A person can still perform alot visually but be taking too much punishment on the inside.
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Post by OldDirtyBernie on Apr 9, 2014 7:40:33 GMT -5
Really only two people could have ended it and made sense, Brock or Cena. The Streak wouldn't have "made" anyone. If anything, it would be such an impossible standard to live up to and be "The One". You needed it to be someone who could carry that weight and not have to worry about then having a career worthy of that title. And unless Cena was going to go heel, Brock's the perfect choice. This is really it, I saw so many people complain that it was wasted on a part-timer but it's really the only way to go. Giving it to a full-time guy is more likely then not going to kill his career. Not even necessarily just the expectations of them, the booking. Kayfabe whoever broke the streak is the most powerful force the WWE has ever seen, that kind of booking on a full-time guy would make even Bruno say it's a bit much. On a part-timer it's much easier to book someone that strong without it getting boring or tiresome, the best parallel I can make is to comic books. You can't have someone like Galactus or Doomsday be this constant presence as eventually you have to de-emphasis or over-come their power for the story to ever go anywhere or be entertaining. Their absence after being over-come or fended off allows them to be accepted as world-breakers again when they do re-appear. Plus, if booked correctly, you can always have whomever best Brock and say that they beat the man that beat the streak, without actually having them beat The Undertaker.
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The Robisher
Trap-Jaw
Deaf by nature. Proud by choice.
Posts: 255
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Post by The Robisher on Apr 9, 2014 9:15:45 GMT -5
Context is everything.
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Post by Green Arrow on Apr 9, 2014 9:42:02 GMT -5
I'm dissapointed the concussion made us miss out on a potential 4-4.5 star match that it could have been.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 15:32:02 GMT -5
What interests me is, I wonder whether Lesnar winning was planned before the match started.
You'd figure it'd be easy regardless of Taker's condition for him to win, Hell's gate is a move he can lay on his back and do with little effort. But who knows what his actual condition was.
I've heard people say "But they had the 21-1 ready to go!". Let's face it, that'd take 15 seconds to change from 21-0. The font and even the picture of "1" is sitting right there for you, it's part of 21. Refs pass information to the back all the time to prepare for whatever eventuality.
Not saying that DID happen, but writing it off just because 21-1 appeared is silly.
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Post by whitecrxsses on Apr 9, 2014 16:08:58 GMT -5
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but literally the most unexpected match ending in...well, as long as I can remember really gave an 'anything can happen' feel to the rest of the event. It enhanced the main event, where previously the ending would've been obvious, the false finishes seemed a little more believable. It all tied together perfectly.
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Post by darkendless on Apr 9, 2014 16:14:21 GMT -5
Not nearly as good as I hoped. Very disappointing. Crowd seemed really dead for most of it, too.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Apr 9, 2014 18:39:19 GMT -5
Not nearly as good as I hoped. Very disappointing. Crowd seemed really dead for most of it, too. That's because between the build for the match, and the placement of it in the card, it seemed there was no was Lesnar was going over. Because of this, no one reacted to the near falls because it was seen as an inevitability Taker would win. And as for the match itself, it wasn't WM 25, but it told the story it exactly needed to: Taker as an old beat up man, and Lesnar as the uncaring beast.
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Post by darkendless on Apr 9, 2014 23:11:16 GMT -5
I didn't see any of the build, just read about it on here. But, yep, seemed lame as most of the builds for Taker matches in recent years; i.e. just thrown together shortly before Mania. Anyway, the match just sucked. The way it started with the rush right into the worked punches was disappointing. I'd expected more realism with these two, with Lesnar pulling that off in the Cena match for example and Taker being such a fan of MMA. Then we go right into the big forehead punches as soon as the bell rings. What was it, like 5-10 minutes of disjointed punch-kick BS with a little bit of Lesnar working Taker's leg, to start the match? Poorly planned, compared to what I feel these two could have done.
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Post by Jimichiro Likes Erick Rowan on Apr 10, 2014 1:39:29 GMT -5
I can't add much that hasn't been said, but everything worked out just about perfecftly (could've done without Taker getting a concussion, but still).
Despite the poor build leading up, I knew I'd get a 4ish star match that'd compare to Taker's past few Manias, as well as the Brock/Taker matches from 2002-2003. And then the match started, and it was just slow and plodding. Taker was just looking so... tentative. Frail, I guess. Like Taker was scared to bump (I know, concussion). At one point during the match I even thought "I hope after Taker goes over, one of Taker's contemporaries like Austin, Foley or Shawn have a long talk with Taker and tell him it's time." Then I started to think "this whole angle's so stupid. Typical Vince & co. paying Brock oodles of money to job just so WWE can say they're better than UFC."
And then Brock won. I just stared at my monitor for about a minute, expecting SOMETHING to happen - it was a botched count, the ref was paid off, a Dusty finish, just SOMETHING to prove that I hadn't seen what I just saw. I don't think I've ever been so shocked (in terms of watching in-ring action and a finish).
Anyway, tl;dr, I'm glad Brock was "the 1 in 21-1," I think Taker gets a huge monkey off his back and can enjoy his retirement peacefully and I think I'd prefer this being Taker's last match.
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Post by jorajatt on Apr 10, 2014 3:44:20 GMT -5
Well, looks like we know the headliner for the Hall Of Fame next year. Here's an ominous quote from Undertaker's biography page on wwe.com:
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